The Rugby Thread

blazing_saddles

Great match, great result for Portugal, the commentary, far from great.
Straight out of the Kirby school of, “when in doubt, babble manically.”

kingstongraham

Watched it with the sound off (not because of the commentary, just for reasons) and that was a proper exciting match - kept thinking Fiji were going to move away at the end, but Portugal's defence was really strong.

A two division 5 nations looks more and more like a good idea.

secretsqirrel

I would like to see Portugal invited to a couple of Autumn Internationals like Georgia. Most of their games are against European teams like Andorra, Spain, Netherlands, Germany etc. Which means opportunities to make in-roads into the ‘all important’ rankings are almost non-existent.

kingstongraham

Sounds like they gave Italy a scare last year, that could be their level at the moment if they get the chance.

Pross

kingstongraham said:

Watched it with the sound off (not because of the commentary, just for reasons) and that was a proper exciting match - kept thinking Fiji were going to move away at the end, but Portugal's defence was really strong.

A two division 5 nations looks more and more like a good idea.

Yeah, a two division tournament would be good and give teams something to really play for. I'm not convinced it will happen though as the 'big' teams would probably lose revenue if they got relegated.

kingstongraham

Pross said:

kingstongraham said:

Watched it with the sound off (not because of the commentary, just for reasons) and that was a proper exciting match - kept thinking Fiji were going to move away at the end, but Portugal's defence was really strong.

A two division 5 nations looks more and more like a good idea.

Yeah, a two division tournament would be good and give teams something to really play for. I'm not convinced it will happen though as the 'big' teams would probably lose revenue if they got relegated.

One of them would have to get relegated every other year, I guess.

blazing_saddles

I saw a suggestion that rather than teams failing to qualify going home, they should all play in a plate competition, to run consecutively with the knock out stages.
A nice idea for an aperitif tournament.

Jezyboy

blazing_saddles said:

I saw a suggestion that rather than teams failing to qualify going home, they should all play in a plate competition, to run consecutively with the knock out stages.
A nice idea for an aperitif tournament.

Feels a little school sports dayish to me

Pross

Jezyboy said:

blazing_saddles said:

I saw a suggestion that rather than teams failing to qualify going home, they should all play in a plate competition, to run consecutively with the knock out stages.
A nice idea for an aperitif tournament.

Feels a little school sports dayish to me

It’s standard in Rugby 7s tournaments (or was).

Dorset_Boy

blazing_saddles said:

I saw a suggestion that rather than teams failing to qualify going home, they should all play in a plate competition, to run consecutively with the knock out stages.
A nice idea for an aperitif tournament.

Difficult when some of the players aren't full time pros, but it would surely help benefit some of the tier 2 nations to have more competitive games,

Jezyboy

Pross said:

Jezyboy said:

blazing_saddles said:

I saw a suggestion that rather than teams failing to qualify going home, they should all play in a plate competition, to run consecutively with the knock out stages.
A nice idea for an aperitif tournament.

Feels a little school sports dayish to me

It’s standard in Rugby 7s tournaments (or was).

Looking through recent years, it looks like a shield competition would have been a nice opportunity for Scotland or England.

I think promotion/demotion from the 6 nation's might be a good opportunity for Italy to actually get to win some games...

pblakeney

Borthwick admitting that they do not understand the current rules.

""It isn't often associated with Fiji, but they have been phenomenal in that area, winning lots of penalties," Borthwick told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"I am going to have to get a greater understanding of the interpretations that were applied on the pitch to certain scenarios

"We felt there were a few things there that were slightly confusing.

"That is going to be very important against Fiji because they contest the ball on the floor virtually every breakdown, so we need to understand just exactly how that is going to be officiated.""

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67049114

Pross

To be fair to him they different refs really do interpret the breakdown in different ways. What they need to be doing is watching the referee in other matches, some seem to always favour the attacking team and others the defending team. There are a few who penalise the ball carrier for not releasing the second they hit the ground.

pblakeney

Pross said:

To be fair to him they different refs really do interpret the breakdown in different ways. What they need to be doing is watching the referee in other matches, some seem to always favour the attacking team and others the defending team. There are a few who penalise the ball carrier for not releasing the second they hit the ground.

You'd think this was something they just did continually, no?

Pross

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

To be fair to him they different refs really do interpret the breakdown in different ways. What they need to be doing is watching the referee in other matches, some seem to always favour the attacking team and others the defending team. There are a few who penalise the ball carrier for not releasing the second they hit the ground.

You'd think this was something they just did continually, no?

Defntely, there aren't that many referees doing international games so they should really know all their quirks. A lot of teams will also get refs to training sessions. I think those sorts of comments are often a bit of an attempt to influence the referee but doubt it ever works.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Right, who is brave enough to do predictions (and possible margins) for the weekend?

I'll start

Wales v Argentina
Wales by more than 10

Ireland v NZ
Ireland by less than 10

England v Fiji
England by less than 5

France v SA
France by less than 5

Tashman

All NH Semi-Final line-up for you then?

For me:
Wales
Ireland
England
SA.

I can easily see the IRE V NZ and FRA v SA games going either way though and the tournament winner will come from those 4, can't see Wales or England realistically going the whole way.

pblakeney

Wales v Argentina
Wales by more than 10

Ireland v NZ
Ireland by less than 10

England v Fiji
England by more than 10

France v SA
France by more than 5

Pross

Wales by less than 10
NZ by less than 10
England by more than 10
SA by less than 10

I have a feeling Ireland and France will choke a bit under pressure. I also wouldn't be surprised if Wales lose. Fiji have dropped off a bit in the last 2 pool games but may raise their game again when playing a top tier team.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Yeah, I am going all NH for the semi finals. The only realistic spoiler I can see is South Africa for obvious reasons.

Completely get the thoughts on Ireland and France being mentally fragile but I just think under their current guise, both are far different teams from a mental resilience POV, I don't think either will crack under the pressure.

Dorset_Boy

So long as both the All Blacks and South Africa lose, not fussed by who wins on the other side of the draw.

ddraver

I'm going for it - Argentina to win. Looked much better at the weekend again.

Ireland (but could go either way if NZ have a good day)

England (totally ridiculous they're here tbh but Portugal will have rattled Fiji)

Can't call SA v France. I think with a few key players missing France could be vulnerable and SA have the experience

secretsqirrel

I can’t call this.

Horrible feeling Wales and Ireland won’t make it, and NZ looking ominous.

#hopeimwrong

blazing_saddles

secretsqirrel said:

I can’t call this.

Horrible feeling Wales and Ireland won’t make it, and NZ looking ominous.

#hopeimwrong

I usually have the same feeling whenever Wales are playing, but strangely, against Argentina when Gats has been in charge, I don’t.
His record is 6-1 with only one of those awkward Autumn internationals lost.

Northern hemisphere to win either 3-1 or 4-0.

secretsqirrel

blazing_saddles said:

secretsqirrel said:

I can’t call this.

Horrible feeling Wales and Ireland won’t make it, and NZ looking ominous.

#hopeimwrong

I usually have the same feeling whenever Wales are playing, but strangely, against Argentina when Gats has been in charge, I don’t.
His record is 6-1 with only one of those awkward Autumn internationals lost.

Northern hemisphere to win either 3-1 or 4-0.

Yeah I must remind myself Argentina were awful against England. They have improved but Wales have also been improving.

I didn’t mention Fiji/Eng. I can’t make out if Fiji are running out of steam or have their minds on the quarters. I really don’t know what to make of England.

Pinning hopes on France 🇫🇷 .

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I think Wales will win and it may well be the biggest margin of all 4 games.

I think Fiji had their head in the qtr final hence the poor showing last game. I think England will be turgid but will kick, use their set piece and grind a win.

I get the idea about NZ but I just think Ireland are a level above. I can't see them being able to match the control and intensity of Ireland and I don't think Ireland's level will drop.

I know a lot has been said about the draw, but it has given us four evenly matched qtrs, even if it means one of France/SA will go home earlier than they should.

ddraver

NZ could do the equivalent of doing what France usually do to them...

Which is a mad thought given the last 20 odd years.

laurentian

I think New Zealand fell off the media radar somewhat following a couple pre world cup losses and when they lost to a very good French side in the opening game. Since then they have looked pretty damn good and have dismantled a couple of the tier two nations in a way that they tend to when on top form.

I really, really admire the Irish team, managment and style of play. They have just about all of the attributes to win a world cup in terms of playing and tactical ability, experience and strength in depth (very similar to England in 2003 in many ways). It makes no sense logically to say this but I do worry at their lack of "pedigree" in the latter stages of the world cup may be a factor

South Africa and France are both mighty fine rugby teams with SA being my personal pre-tournament favourites - they both seem to have great players in every position.

Pretty sure it will be one of the above 4 teams that wins it and can't remember a RWC with such quality in four teams.

England, I think, should beat Fiji. As bouyed as they will be by beating England at Twickenham a couple of weeks before the RWC, losing to Portugal will surely have sown some doubt although they probably look at the match against England as being a "nothing to lose" situation in which their (relatively) unstructured attack could be dangerous to the relatively robotic England. Thereafter, the form book would say England have no chance in the semi final but on a good day (a very good day!) could beat SA or France on a bad (very bad) day. My "bet" weeks before the tournament was that England would be losing finalists (could not get odds on line but think they would have been good). BTW I don't care if England win games by drop kicks and penalties alone.

Wales are kind of the same as England in terms of recent performances although Gatland seems to have galvanised someting in them that Borthwick hasn't in England yet. I think they'll beat Argentina.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Borthwick is off his trolley, Farrell over Ford. I am reversing my prediction to a Fiji win!

Cannot fathom it, must only be undying loyalty to Farrell. There is no logical/rational decision to play him at 10 over Ford.

Goodbye England, bye bye Borthwick.

blazing_saddles

Dumbfounded by Borthwick’s team selection against Fiji.
He may just have put England out of the cup.