Giro 2020 - Stage 20: Alba – Sestriere 190kms *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,620
    Does anyone know what time the top 10 will be starting tomorrow? Just trying to plan my own ride...
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,114
    Pernsteiner, who is 10th, is off at 1545 local time.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    edited October 2020
    DeVlaeminck said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    Wow that was great!

    Watched it on the turbo. Massive heart rate spike for the sprint.

    So, who still thinks it was a bad idea for Hindley to follow TGH and Dennis the other day??? Should he have waited for Kelderman again today :smiley:

    Kelderman's only like 1'32" back isn't he, so if he has a decent TT he could still place well.

    I take it we think Tao is a better TTer than Hindley...

    Not picking on you Bob as a few have made similar comments but doesn't that result suggest they *should* have gone all in for Kelderman the other day?

    We won't know for sure until after the TT but if you agree with Bri Smithy about Kelderman limiting his losses to ~1 minute on the Stelvio stage had he had help and factor in him getting help today had Hindley waited it's possible Kelderman could still be in pink.
    That assumes that TGH wasn't holding something back on the final climb to try and stave off Hindley's sprint though. It's plausible he could have gone quicker if Hindley wasn't there.
    Yes absolutely - the other day you mean? - I'm sure you are right and how much faster TGH would have gone is an unknowable just as how much faster Wilco would have gone with support then and today is unknowable.

    I'm happy to leave it like that - just don't see today as proof positive Sunweb got it right - if anything I'd argue it favours the Brian Smith view.

    Well, we got that exact scenario today with DQS using several riders to chase the same Ineos 2 and Kelderman being able to sit in and benefit, but he couldn't.

    Looked like pretty definitive proof to me.












    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    mrb123 said:

    Does anyone know what time the top 10 will be starting tomorrow? Just trying to plan my own ride...

    Thats wot I was asking
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,816
    bobmcstuff said:

    mrb123 said:

    Does anyone know what time the top 10 will be starting tomorrow? Just trying to plan my own ride...

    Thats wot I was asking
    Last rider is due to finish at 3-30pm here, so for the top 10 going off at I would guess 2 minute intervals, that would be about 2-50pm.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    edited October 2020
    Yeah I'm doing a 165km tour of Tier 3 greater Manchester so I won't get back in time.

    Going to try and watch it back on racepass without getting spoiled first... unlikely.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    andyp said:

    Pernsteiner, who is 10th, is off at 1545 local time.


    Do the clocks go back tonight in Italy too?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    RichN95. said:

    andyp said:

    Pernsteiner, who is 10th, is off at 1545 local time.


    Do the clocks go back tonight in Italy too?
    Yup
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,935
    RichN95. said:

    andyp said:

    Pernsteiner, who is 10th, is off at 1545 local time.


    Do the clocks go back tonight in Italy too?
    I think generally we and Europe change together.
    Probably be different next year though!
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    Mad_Malx said:

    RichN95. said:

    pblakeney said:

    Mad_Malx said:

    Been any other GTs that have come down entirely to the final day TT?

    1989 TdF. Lemond overtook Fignon on the final day TT.

    Dumoulin in the 2017 Giro and Hesjedal in 2012 are other recent ones. They were both in Milan too
    I was asking if there was a tour when, at the start of the last day, they were on the same time.
    Too subtle, sorry.

    pretty sure thats a no
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,868
    pblakeney said:

    mididoctors said:

    All that distance with no time gap ..should have just had the two of them do a tt and save everyone else the trouble

    It's about the complete journey, not just the destination.
    really?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    I just hope that celebration on the first stage win doesn't come into play. It's so tight who knows?
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,744
    blazing_saddles said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    bobmcstuff said:

    Wow that was great!

    Watched it on the turbo. Massive heart rate spike for the sprint.

    So, who still thinks it was a bad idea for Hindley to follow TGH and Dennis the other day??? Should he have waited for Kelderman again today :smiley:

    Kelderman's only like 1'32" back isn't he, so if he has a decent TT he could still place well.

    I take it we think Tao is a better TTer than Hindley...

    Not picking on you Bob as a few have made similar comments but doesn't that result suggest they *should* have gone all in for Kelderman the other day?

    We won't know for sure until after the TT but if you agree with Bri Smithy about Kelderman limiting his losses to ~1 minute on the Stelvio stage had he had help and factor in him getting help today had Hindley waited it's possible Kelderman could still be in pink.
    That assumes that TGH wasn't holding something back on the final climb to try and stave off Hindley's sprint though. It's plausible he could have gone quicker if Hindley wasn't there.
    Yes absolutely - the other day you mean? - I'm sure you are right and how much faster TGH would have gone is an unknowable just as how much faster Wilco would have gone with support then and today is unknowable.

    I'm happy to leave it like that - just don't see today as proof positive Sunweb got it right - if anything I'd argue it favours the Brian Smith view.

    Well, we got that exact scenario today with DQS using several riders to chase the same Ineos 2 and Kelderman being able to sit in and benefit, but he couldn't.

    Looked like pretty definitive proof to me.



    He did benefit but obviously if the dQS riders have just been full gas trying to keep a rider in the break away they won't have much left in the tank. You could point to the benefit TGH and Hindley gained sitting behind Dennis as another example of how a strong rider can offer significant assistance.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    salsiccia1 said:

    RichN95. said:

    andyp said:

    Pernsteiner, who is 10th, is off at 1545 local time.


    Do the clocks go back tonight in Italy too?
    Yup
    Oh man, that's so confusing. I think that means you are now 7 hours behind rather than 6 (and Europe 6 rather than 5) so a late night for me.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    Geoghegan

    That's an Irish name, no?

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    mididoctors said:

    Pross said:

    mididoctors said:

    Pross said:

    johnboy183 said:

    Potentially TGH will be the first English GT winner.

    With that name?
    yes he is a londoner
    Yeah I know, the first time I heard him speak it was a surprise. I'm just thinking if Brad is a Belgian then someone with a Gaelic name isn't English.
    he was from my cycle club pross
    Nice. My comment was just a joke about the name though, usually when someone has a name with such a strong link to a certain country they would claim that heritage for generations wherever they lived (look at all those 'Irish' Americans). Also, people used to go on about Wiggins being Belgian as he was born there when he's as much a Londoner as Tao.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    edited October 2020
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    Nibali.... didn't turn up.

    Nibali's legs realised they were nearly 36 years old

    11 GT podiums with 4 wins
    The full set of GTs
    15 stage wins
    3 monuments

    Never really been appreciated on the forum, but a hell of a rider none the less.


    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    Fantastic stage.

    With regard to the should Hindley have dropped back arguments, assuming TGH beats Hindley in the TT (as I hope he does) I'd suggest, in hindsight, that suggests they didn't make the best decision. Probably though, whatever decision they made, it wouldn't have altered the final result. Certainly, anyone claiming that one or the other tactic was obviously superior to the other is wrong. Sunweb were between a rock and a hard place.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    DeadCalm said:

    Fantastic stage.

    With regard to the should Hindley have dropped back arguments, assuming TGH beats Hindley in the TT (as I hope he does) I'd suggest, in hindsight, that suggests they didn't make the best decision. Probably though, whatever decision they made, it wouldn't have altered the final result. Certainly, anyone claiming that one or the other tactic was obviously superior to the other is wrong. Sunweb were between a rock and a hard place.

    Let's see what Kelderman does in the TT. My guess is he has a bad one. Although admittedly there's not much at stake for him he's not going to move from third.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    Pross said:



    Nice. My comment was just a joke about the name though, usually when someone has a name with such a strong link to a certain country they would claim that heritage for generations wherever they lived (look at all those 'Irish' Americans). Also, people used to go on about Wiggins being Belgian as he was born there when he's as much a Londoner as Tao.


    The Guardian was claiming he was Scottish the other day for some reason
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    RichN95. said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Fantastic stage.

    With regard to the should Hindley have dropped back arguments, assuming TGH beats Hindley in the TT (as I hope he does) I'd suggest, in hindsight, that suggests they didn't make the best decision. Probably though, whatever decision they made, it wouldn't have altered the final result. Certainly, anyone claiming that one or the other tactic was obviously superior to the other is wrong. Sunweb were between a rock and a hard place.

    Let's see what Kelderman does in the TT. My guess is he has a bad one. Although admittedly there's not much at stake for him he's not going to move from third.
    It's an unknowable. If Hindley had dropped back on Thursday, would Kelderman have lost as much time today? Possibly not. It was a super tough decision for Sunweb. At the time I thought they made the right call. Now I'm not so sure. If Hindley wins pink, it's indisputable. Any other result is debatable.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • diplodicus
    diplodicus Posts: 711
    Pross said:

    I just hope that celebration on the first stage win doesn't come into play. It's so tight who knows?

    My memory is shocking! Remind me what celebration?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,329
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:



    Nice. My comment was just a joke about the name though, usually when someone has a name with such a strong link to a certain country they would claim that heritage for generations wherever they lived (look at all those 'Irish' Americans). Also, people used to go on about Wiggins being Belgian as he was born there when he's as much a Londoner as Tao.


    The Guardian was claiming he was Scottish the other day for some reason
    Yes. His dad is Scottish, and Fotheringham always say's he's Scottish - ever heard Tao himself talk about it, so I'd guess Fotheringham knows best
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    RichN95. said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Fantastic stage.

    With regard to the should Hindley have dropped back arguments, assuming TGH beats Hindley in the TT (as I hope he does) I'd suggest, in hindsight, that suggests they didn't make the best decision. Probably though, whatever decision they made, it wouldn't have altered the final result. Certainly, anyone claiming that one or the other tactic was obviously superior to the other is wrong. Sunweb were between a rock and a hard place.

    Let's see what Kelderman does in the TT. My guess is he has a bad one. Although admittedly there's not much at stake for him he's not going to move from third.
    He has the motivation of trying to prove that he was right. Not sure whether it works for pros, but there is nothing more motivational for a forumite.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    Rode about the last 100m enjoying it which I can understand as he may not have known he was moving into (then) 4th place and it was his first GT stage win. It probably lost him a couple of seconds. I commented on it at the time but didn't think he would ultimately make the time up on Kelderman and find himself in this position where a second or two could potentially decide the race.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,642
    In general, I don't like my GT winners to have domestiques waiting for them in the mountains, so no complaints from me.
  • diplodicus
    diplodicus Posts: 711
    Pross said:

    Rode about the last 100m enjoying it which I can understand as he may not have known he was moving into (then) 4th place and it was his first GT stage win. It probably lost him a couple of seconds. I commented on it at the time but didn't think he would ultimately make the time up on Kelderman and find himself in this position where a second or two could potentially decide the race.

    Thanks.
    I miss read your first post as first stage, not first stage win :o . I couldn't remember any celebration from Tao in the first stage :D
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    I've a feeling there's an obvious (and recent) answer but I'm missing it.

    Has anyone ever one a GT having not worn the leaders jersey until the final podium?



    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,805
    mididoctors said:

    pblakeney said:

    mididoctors said:

    All that distance with no time gap ..should have just had the two of them do a tt and save everyone else the trouble

    It's about the complete journey, not just the destination.
    really?
    Really.
    You'd just watch stage 21 otherwise.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    No_Ta_Doctor said:



    Yes. His dad is Scottish, and Fotheringham always say's he's Scottish - ever heard Tao himself talk about it, so I'd guess Fotheringham knows best

    It seems that Scotland selected him in the team for the 2014 Commonwealth Games, but he never raced. I'm not sure that's a sound basis for calling him a Scot. Who does he support at international football?
    Twitter: @RichN95

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