TDF 2020 - Stage 17 Grenoble - Méribel Col de la Loze 170 km *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • poweredbyidris
    poweredbyidris Posts: 848
    Would've been cemented if JV had been on the front. At least the riders tried something
  • hillrunner
    hillrunner Posts: 48
    Looked like kuss worked for a few minutes there before the call came in to back off and save for tomorrow.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Looks like most people have managed it. Greipel safe, and Ewan did his job of shepherding Kluge to the line too despite looking in pretty poor shape early on.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    edited September 2020
    salsiccia1 said:

    Whilst I respect the effort, Bahrain-Merida just cemented the tour for Roglic.

    I think we saw that Roglic is genuinely the strongest rider today, I had hoped that Pogacar would be able to benefit off the work done for Landa.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Pross said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    Whilst I respect the effort, Bahrain-Merida just cemented the tour for Roglic.

    I think we saw that Roglic is genuinely the strongest rider today, I had hoped that the Pogacar would be able to benefit off the work done for Landa.
    I think he'll be a worthy winner, no problem with that. I was just frustrated that he got an armchair ride, with a team doing exactly what JV would have done if they'd been on the front. B-M's pace-making stopped anyone else attacking earlier on which might have caused more problems. Perhaps Pog might have had a go earlier, or Superman which could have disrupted the pace and make riders go after each other.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    edited September 2020
    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    That's a disgrace, may as well not bother having the competition if they are going to make decisions like that.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Top trolling.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Surprised they didn't give it to Pinot
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    edited September 2020
    Debusschere only rider to be timed out:


    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,042
    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    Debusschere only rider to be timed out:


    maybe he should have got the combativity award
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    Pross said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    Whilst I respect the effort, Bahrain-Merida just cemented the tour for Roglic.

    I think we saw that Roglic is genuinely the strongest rider today, I had hoped that Pogacar would be able to benefit off the work done for Landa.
    I think you are wrong.
    Try again and the clue is he's on the same team.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    davidof said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    Debusschere only rider to be timed out:


    maybe he should have got the combativity award
    He sacrificed himself for Coquard. Dropped back on the Madelaine, gave everything on the descent and flat, died on the final climb.

    Chapeau
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    edited September 2020
    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.


    If you think Cosnefroy should have got it, then our opinions are poles apart.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    edited September 2020
    blazing_saddles said:

    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.


    If you think Cosnefroy should have got it, then our opinions are poles apart.
    You clearly have no concept of the definition of 'combativity'.

    Edit: And I note you haven't accepted my invitation to suggest a more deserving winner.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    blazing_saddles said:

    Pross said:

    salsiccia1 said:

    Whilst I respect the effort, Bahrain-Merida just cemented the tour for Roglic.

    I think we saw that Roglic is genuinely the strongest rider today, I had hoped that Pogacar would be able to benefit off the work done for Landa.
    I think you are wrong.
    Try again and the clue is he's on the same team.
    He can’t TT
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    I'd have gone with Carapaz for combativity. Beat Alaphilippe over the Madelaine. Got back to him when he attacked on the descent (I missed this bit, but saw a brief twitter clip that looked like he did). Dropped him on the final climb. Dropped Kamna. Went all out to hold the leaders at bay and was only caught when it got to the insane last few kms.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,588
    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.
    It almost always goes to the last man standing from a break (even though they quite often aren't the most aggressive throughout). Today I would have said Carapaz was head and shoulders the most aggressive in the break though depending on the definition of combative there's a case for Debusshere
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    blazing_saddles said:

    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.


    If you think Cosnefroy should have got it, then our opinions are poles apart.
    You clearly have no concept of the definition of 'combativity'.

    Edit: And I note you haven't accepted my invitation to suggest a more deserving winner.
    No need to get touchy. Here is what it says:

    the jury also awards a combativity award to the most aggressive rider at the end of each stage, with this rider allowed to wear a red bib the following race day.

    I just don't view Cosnefroy's efforts as being aggressive

    Carapaz on the other hand was on the attack from the flag, made the first break that almost got away, then again made the select group that did.
    He chased down Alaphilippe when he opted for the suicidal attack after just 2kms of the final climb, then attacked, went solo, hung on, was almost caught, got away again, only to be reeled in within the last 3kms.

    More deserving of the award in my book.

    I wonder how others feel?


    Not remotely touchy. The bit in bold suggests Alaphilippe was being super aggressive, no? He was the rider who made the most attacks from the break. Sure, Carapaz was the strongest and lasted the longest but that has nothing to do with combativity. Given that the jury have a historical reluctance to award the combativity award to the same rider on consecutive days, I think that the award to Alaphilippe is entirely defensible and certainly not worthy of your histrionic (but entirely predictable) attack.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    edited September 2020
    Depends if they mean actually attacking as opposed to irritating pointless digs.
    _
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,100
    rick_chasey said:

    Depends if they mean actually attacking as opposed to irritating pointless digs.

    Pointless digs is arguably what the combativity award is all about.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    edited September 2020
    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    DeadCalm said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    RichN95. said:

    Today's Combativity Award was given too....

    ....Julian Alaphilippe. LOL.

    I guess the President needed a French 'winner'

    Lets be honest, it's the only thing the French stand a chance of winning, because it's the only category where "match fixing" is possible.

    I reckon it's the reason Thomas de Gendt can't really be arsed to get in the break any more, after they gave Barguil the overall award in 2017.
    Curious who you think should have got it instead? Carapaz was the strongest rider in the break but strength doesn't equal combativity.

    Personally, I'd have given it to Cosnefroy but have no argument with the eventual decision.


    If you think Cosnefroy should have got it, then our opinions are poles apart.
    You clearly have no concept of the definition of 'combativity'.

    Edit: And I note you haven't accepted my invitation to suggest a more deserving winner.
    No need to get touchy. Here is what it says:

    the jury also awards a combativity award to the most aggressive rider at the end of each stage, with this rider allowed to wear a red bib the following race day.

    I just don't view Cosnefroy's efforts as being aggressive

    Carapaz on the other hand was on the attack from the flag, made the first break that almost got away, then again made the select group that did.
    He chased down Alaphilippe when he opted for the suicidal attack after just 2kms of the final climb, then attacked, went solo, hung on, was almost caught, got away again, only to be reeled in within the last 3kms.

    More deserving of the award in my book.

    I wonder how others feel?


    Not remotely touchy. The bit in bold suggests Alaphilippe was being super aggressive, no? He was the rider who made the most attacks from the break. Sure, Carapaz was the strongest and lasted the longest but that has nothing to do with combativity. Given that the jury have a historical reluctance to award the combativity award to the same rider on consecutive days, I think that the award to Alaphilippe is entirely defensible and certainly not worthy of your histrionic (but entirely predictable) attack.
    Apparently the combativity decision yesterday was closely split between Alaphilippe and Carapaz (who was eventually given it), so today they, if you like, made amends, giving it to the other of the two. And today Alaphilippe certainly pushed the break along.

    Also, I wouldn't say Alaphilippe did a suicidal attack early on the final climb (Blazing's opinion), he did a test of his opponents – he does it all the time to try and judge them.

  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Depends on what you class as a pointless dig. Are we talking about genuine attempts to win races or position highly, or irritating clips off the front (usually accompanied with strenuous gurning) that have no discernible purpose?
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    blazing_saddles said:

    Everybody else comes home eyeballs hanging out, Kuss scoping out the crowd.

    Kuss did later say he was beyond his limit already when Lopez went by him. But he's another (like several who have emerged during the Tour) who could perhaps have a bigger role.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    above_the_cows said:

    I miss the mountains. Damn you Covid.

    Me too, I should have gone to the Dolomites for 10 days yesterday - trip was cancelled by organiser in April/May period.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    rick_chasey said:

    Kamna, not a GC rider. Carapaz, GC rider - backs it up the next day.

    Kämna said in an interview yesterday that he believed he was or would be soon good enough to be a GC contender. By soon I think he meant in a couple of years. Although he said he didn't think his TT-ing was good enough just yet.
    Based on today, his recuperation in a GT perhaps not yet either, and also his sense of reality - he was aiming for KOM pts on Madeleine.
    Nonetheless I think he might be a good bet for the WC this year.
  • jimmyjams
    jimmyjams Posts: 709
    Further to the brief discussion in an earlier thread about the climber's jersey, what is the point of it, when at the moment the current situation is:

    KOM standings
    1 Pogacar 66 pts
    2 Roglic 63 pts
    3 Lopez 51 pts

    GC placings
    1 Roglic 74:56:04
    2 Pogacar 0:00:57
    3 Lopez 0:01:26

    If KOM is meant to be a different competition, as much as the green jersey is, surely it needs radically overhauling so that one of the riders who successfully competes for many of the climbs does eventually win it?

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