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TDF 2020 - Stage 15: Lyon - Grand Colombier 174.5 km *Spoilers*

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  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,707
    No I just don't value last years second place as much as you all. I think the point I am arguing more is the wording that Thomas would have no problem beating Roglic and Pogacar. If I were building a team, I'd take both of them before Thomas.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,509
    Pogacar seems to have the slight edge on Roglic from what we've seen so far I would say. But the problem is the JV train makes it difficult or impossible for anyone to attack and as others have said, who would risk sacrificing themselves by putting in an early attack?

    Comparing riders from different years is impossible really but I think Thomas is not as good as Pogacar and Roglic on the climbs. Maybe he would have been able to hang onto the GC group though, and he is a good TTer obviously.
  • The year Thomas won the Tour I seem to recall he was accelerating in the final few hundred metres to nick a handful of seconds (fairly sure we mocked him for doing it), so I suspect that version of him would have gone toe to toe with Pog/Rog perfectly well. Might well have been able to distance them before that, too - he was pretty underrated that year.

    Hard to work out what Thomas really thinks about the Tour selection, but in the Dauphine he didn't look quite on it so I don't think Ineos made the wrong choice with what they knew then. Thomas came second in Tirreno Adriatico, which suggests he's finding form but - and it's a big but - he still finished second. The Giro's probably a better goal still than whatever he'd have hypothetically done in France.
  • If you look past the results Thomas was at roughly the same level as Dumoulin at the Dauphine. However as proved this level would have been in the top 10 but not at the pointy end of the race.

    The Giro quality is a lot lower so it was a good move to shift him to that race and I expect a couple of the underperforming tour team will move to support Thomas/be plan B eg Sivakov and possibly Carapaz

    This season is going to see fluid GT teams as both the Vuelta and Giro are very open. The Vuelta could be loaded with talent as GC riders use it as training for next season eg Roglic or Pogacar could win it riding at 95% based on their Tour form
  • ProssPross Posts: 32,794

    If you look past the results Thomas was at roughly the same level as Dumoulin at the Dauphine. However as proved this level would have been in the top 10 but not at the pointy end of the race.

    The Giro quality is a lot lower so it was a good move to shift him to that race and I expect a couple of the underperforming tour team will move to support Thomas/be plan B eg Sivakov and possibly Carapaz

    This season is going to see fluid GT teams as both the Vuelta and Giro are very open. The Vuelta could be loaded with talent as GC riders use it as training for next season eg Roglic or Pogacar could win it riding at 95% based on their Tour form

    I don't think you can really make a comparison based on how Dumoulin is doing in the Tour, he decided early on that he was going to support Roglic rather than acting as a second threat. Had he been their leader he may well be placed more highly.
  • Pross said:

    If you look past the results Thomas was at roughly the same level as Dumoulin at the Dauphine. However as proved this level would have been in the top 10 but not at the pointy end of the race.

    The Giro quality is a lot lower so it was a good move to shift him to that race and I expect a couple of the underperforming tour team will move to support Thomas/be plan B eg Sivakov and possibly Carapaz

    This season is going to see fluid GT teams as both the Vuelta and Giro are very open. The Vuelta could be loaded with talent as GC riders use it as training for next season eg Roglic or Pogacar could win it riding at 95% based on their Tour form

    I don't think you can really make a comparison based on how Dumoulin is doing in the Tour, he decided early on that he was going to support Roglic rather than acting as a second threat. Had he been their leader he may well be placed more highly.
    Dumoulin knew he was not good enough. He would have been top 10, maybe top 5, had Roglic not been around but he would have been exposed even with the JV train fully behind him. I suspect Kuss is in better climbing shape and we are seeing this with the order they are being used.
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