TDF 2020 - Stage 4: Sisteron - Orcières-Merlette 160,5 km *Spoilers*
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Obv its early , but hard to see how Roglic or lotto get isolated , They may get two on the podium even?0
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Newbie to the sport?gsk82 said:
Or only about a third of the way up the reference climbs used by people who aren't newbies to the sport.rick_chasey said:
They could have attacked if they wanted to/could...phreak said:
The fact he had about 30 riders on his wheel suggests it wasn't a super hot pace. I'm sure Frenchie wouldn't approve of this dull style of racing.rick_chasey said:
Unnecessary shade being thrown on classics riders here.phreak said:
Exactly. The fact it was a classics rider on the front says it wasn't that hard a pace. What a dull stage.RichN95. said:Pross said:I know it's early days and also that attacking off the pace that Wout / Kuss were setting is near impossible but someone is going to have to go long or they'll be relying on Roglic having a bad day as he'll play that game every day.
But are they really going that fast. The peloton was 30 strong under the flamme rouge. I realise it's not the hardest climb, but I've never seen an MTF sprint that big ever before.
A quick reminder, they wouldn't have even been half way up the Alp after 7km.
Ps the alpe d'huez climb is under 14km.
Oh come on. Be pleased the cycling is on!1 -
It is stage 4 lads.Pross said:Top 20 from another early Cat 1 MTF in that 'boring' 2012 Tour for contrast
1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 4:58:35
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:02
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling
4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:07
5 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:00:19
6 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) RadioShack-Nissan 0:00:44
7 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:00:46
8 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana Pro Team
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Katusha Team 0:00:50
10 Maxime Monfort (Bel) RadioShack-Nissan 0:00:56
11 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:01:06
12 Frank Schleck (Lux) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:09
13 Richie Porte (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:01:14
14 Michael Rogers (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:01:24
15 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat
16 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:01:31
17 Daniel Martin (Irl) Garmin - Sharp 0:01:39
18 Gorka Izaguirre Insausti (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
19 Tony Gallopin (Fra) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:44
20 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:52
I have to say, i found it fairly dull to but it was no more dull than any sky stage - which is fine.
But to throw shade on this when there's sky cheerleading here for the past decade is a bit much.0 -
Not pinning the blame on Roglic or his team. Just saying it's very dull to watch. Hopefully the other teams will figure out a way of disrupting this approach, as with Roglic clearly having the quickest sprint and a more than decent time trial, he'll win the race easily unless he's put under more pressure from further out.rick_chasey said:
They could have attacked if they wanted to/could...phreak said:
The fact he had about 30 riders on his wheel suggests it wasn't a super hot pace. I'm sure Frenchie wouldn't approve of this dull style of racing.rick_chasey said:
Unnecessary shade being thrown on classics riders here.phreak said:
Exactly. The fact it was a classics rider on the front says it wasn't that hard a pace. What a dull stage.RichN95. said:Pross said:I know it's early days and also that attacking off the pace that Wout / Kuss were setting is near impossible but someone is going to have to go long or they'll be relying on Roglic having a bad day as he'll play that game every day.
But are they really going that fast. The peloton was 30 strong under the flamme rouge. I realise it's not the hardest climb, but I've never seen an MTF sprint that big ever before.
A quick reminder, they wouldn't have even been half way up the Alp after 7km.0 -
Carapaz maybe if still in the fight.mididoctors said:Bernal to go long on the Madeleine.. heard it here first
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It may be only stage 4, but this is the sixth time since the covid break that I have seen Jumbo use the 'Roglic sprints from a group of 10-20 in the last 500m'. This is their tactic.rick_chasey said:
It is stage 4 lads.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Interesting how many of these riders are still riding at the top.rick_chasey said:
It is stage 4 lads.Pross said:Top 20 from another early Cat 1 MTF in that 'boring' 2012 Tour for contrast
1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 4:58:35
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:02
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling
4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:07
5 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne 0:00:19
6 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) RadioShack-Nissan 0:00:44
7 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:00:46
8 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana Pro Team
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Katusha Team 0:00:50
10 Maxime Monfort (Bel) RadioShack-Nissan 0:00:56
11 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:01:06
12 Frank Schleck (Lux) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:09
13 Richie Porte (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:01:14
14 Michael Rogers (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:01:24
15 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat
16 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:01:31
17 Daniel Martin (Irl) Garmin - Sharp 0:01:39
18 Gorka Izaguirre Insausti (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
19 Tony Gallopin (Fra) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:44
20 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) RadioShack-Nissan 0:01:52
I have to say, i found it fairly dull to but it was no more dull than any sky stage - which is fine.
But to throw shade on this when there's sky cheerleading here for the past decade is a bit much.0 -
That's because I had this insane idea that he would repeat his Montvergine 2018 Giro attack and picked him to win.rick_chasey said:Looks like Carapaz lost half a minute..?
Similar climb in respect that it had always been won from a sprint off a constant hard pace. Until Carapaz threw the script out of the window, that is.
Van Aert could have won today, if he had been the protected rider.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
But that's part of the issue. People were bemoaning 'boring Sky' and yet the new kids on the block are doing the same, arguably to an even greater degree as their main man has a kick that can beat JA. There wouldn't have been that many hanging on at the finish when Sky did it properly (Wiggins and early Froome Tours). The Thomas Tour was nothing like that and last year's even less so. Whilst my posting of the 2012 Planche results was tongue in cheek a quick look at last years shows that there was around 1 minute separating the first 20 riders behind the break and that was only Stage 6.
I don't have an issue with it particularly, any team should use the tactic that is best for them, but seeing a bunch sprint for the first supposed MTF isn't much of a spectacle. Maybe the climb was just categorised too highly and raised expectations? Mine weren't particularly high as you'll see early on in the thread but I didn't expect the sort of finish you get on something like the Mur de Bretagne but without the gradient.0 -
Actually I was thinking de Gendt has already lost a ton of time, so is no danger to anyone.rick_chasey said:
It's a flatish stage with a 7km climb at the end, with a flatish final km.Pross said:
By comparison the distance Thomas was going from was like that Froome Giro stage. It was lucky Martin attacked eventually or it would have waited until the last 50m.rick_chasey said:
Who knew Thomas was such a pioneer?RichN95. said:And that is how this Tour will be won. With time bonuses from bunch sprints on MTFs.
What were you expecting?
It's way too early for a proper GC contender to want to carry the burden of the yellow jersey.
Allowing the break to win it and managing the gap is the most sensible way of riding the stage since there is still so much race left and this stage is not attritional enough to actually drop anyone in a meaningful way.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
It's a shame WVA is on domestique duty. The way he can climb and sprint he's a lock for every green jersey MvdP doesn't compete for. He'd win this year easily and probably every year in the next 10 if MvdP doesn't ride for green at the Tour. Even with MvdP, Wout could win it regularly.
Incredible performance today at his size and weight.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
It is only stage 4. There are still a bunch of attack-minded riders in contention. Roglic looked strong but not unbeatable. It could yet be great.phreak said:
Not pinning the blame on Roglic or his team. Just saying it's very dull to watch. Hopefully the other teams will figure out a way of disrupting this approach, as with Roglic clearly having the quickest sprint and a more than decent time trial, he'll win the race easily unless he's put under more pressure from further out.rick_chasey said:
They could have attacked if they wanted to/could...phreak said:
The fact he had about 30 riders on his wheel suggests it wasn't a super hot pace. I'm sure Frenchie wouldn't approve of this dull style of racing.rick_chasey said:
Unnecessary shade being thrown on classics riders here.phreak said:
Exactly. The fact it was a classics rider on the front says it wasn't that hard a pace. What a dull stage.RichN95. said:Pross said:I know it's early days and also that attacking off the pace that Wout / Kuss were setting is near impossible but someone is going to have to go long or they'll be relying on Roglic having a bad day as he'll play that game every day.
But are they really going that fast. The peloton was 30 strong under the flamme rouge. I realise it's not the hardest climb, but I've never seen an MTF sprint that big ever before.
A quick reminder, they wouldn't have even been half way up the Alp after 7km.
It does seem odd that some of the people (not you phreak) now whinging loudest about Jumbo's pragmatic style of riding in the Dauphine and so far in the Tour have spent the last few years ridiculing the whole concept of panache.
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DeadCalm said:
It does seem odd that some of the people (not you phreak) now whinging loudest about Jumbo's pragmatic style of riding in the Dauphine and so far in the Tour have spent the last few years ridiculing the whole concept of panache.
I'll assume you mean me. I ridicule the idea of panache without winning. Pinot, Bardet and often Contador in his late years. To paraphrase Toy Story it's just failing with style.
But there's many stages to go yet. Perhaps I'm being prematurely harsh.Twitter: @RichN950 -
At the back of mind I sort of imagine the ‘clockwork’ climbing style of Roglic will be hard work to maintain at the level he’s at over three weeks . It looks hard work . But its only a thought . And yes I hope its a good edition regardless of who wins0
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Yes, dull. I had live TV coverage on in the background while working and didn't realise the stage had ended until several minutes later.0
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Easy now peeps, it's only a cat1 on stage 4. No major conclusions to draw. Yes, Roglic will want to go late and grab bonuses. Yes, Jumbo have huge strength in depth. But Jumbo did no work until the final few kms, that'll be different when the HC climbs arrive, and when they're in yellow. There's a long way to Paris.
As for the difficulty of the stage, this would be nailed on for the break if it was in wk 2.Warning No formatter is installed for the format2 -
For anyone writing off Bernal, yes, he looked ordinary today. But, in fairness, he looked pretty ordinary during the 2019 Tour until stage 18.0
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Agreed. But, if I were setting the odds, I'd still have him as clear second favourite behind Roglic, with Dumoulin and Pogacar next, followed by Pinot and Quintana.rick_chasey said:
He doesn’t look as comfortable just sitting on his bike as he did.DeadCalm said:For anyone writing off Bernal, yes, he looked ordinary today. But, in fairness, he looked pretty ordinary during the 2019 Tour until stage 18.
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Anyone think Yates may have been bluffing about chasing stages? He had a chance to go for the stage and yellow today but looked more like he wanted to ensure he didn't lose time. He could also have just been unable to make a move of course .0
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Well to me he has that stretched out style anyway .. but i agree he hasn't the same fluidity . And has been grimacing a fair bit too / as if we all wouldn’t/ !rick_chasey said:
He doesn’t look as comfortable just sitting on his bike as he did.DeadCalm said:For anyone writing off Bernal, yes, he looked ordinary today. But, in fairness, he looked pretty ordinary during the 2019 Tour until stage 18.
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Dumoulin said Roglic came to him to ask him how he was feeling at around 2km to go.
Dumoulin said he felt terrible. At the interview said he felt glad just to hang on with the front group.0 -
Agreed, I think it’s still too early yet. I’m not entirely convinced by Bernal but still interested to see how he (and others) go against Roglic on the proper steep stuff deep in the tourNo_Ta_Doctor said:Easy now peeps, it's only a cat1 on stage 4. No major conclusions to draw. Yes, Roglic will want to go late and grab bonuses. Yes, Jumbo have huge strength in depth. But Jumbo did no work until the final few kms, that'll be different when the HC climbs arrive, and when they're in yellow. There's a long way to Paris.
As for the difficulty of the stage, this would be nailed on for the break if it was in wk 2.0 -
I'm still not 100% convinced by Bernal. Obviously he is the defending champion but last year's Tour was a bit of an odd one. He looked superb at times riding for Thomas in 2018 though. I suppose it takes a while to get used to different riders' ways of doing things but he quite often doesn't look in a great position and prone to getting caught out by an attack from a rival. Carapaz dropping some time today won't have helped him either.0
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I really enjoyed that, building tension then boom, roglic looked good and deivered, Ineos ttotally lacking at the end.0
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I thought bernal looked awkward.0
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I think writing the whole tour off for GC after the initial opening shots is about as premature as the people below the line at the Guardian proclaiming that Ewan could overtake Cavendish's number of tour wins (if only there were as many flat stages etc etc, gosh Cavendish had it soooo easy, it's so unfair).
It's a wee bit early, no?0 -
Jumbo are biding their time. They don’t want to knacker their Dom’s this early in the tour, so they’re doing just enough for the time being. As long as there’s no more clownery from Dumoulin crashing falling off in random places, they’ll be fine.0
