Unpopular Pro Race Opinions

FreddieVonRost

Pross said:

The best Tour stages in recent years have been flat 'sprinters' stages where there has been a cross wind and the organisers should have fewer mountain stages to concentrate on riding around the coastal areas.

Pross said:

The best Tour stages in recent years have been flat 'sprinters' stages where there has been a cross wind and the organisers should have fewer mountain stages to concentrate on riding around the coastal areas.

Living dangerously, Pross.

m.r.m.

RichN95. said:

The Move is the best English language Tour de France podcast

No longer true. The Lanterne Rouge podcast has overtaken it imho.

50x11

m.r.m. said:

RichN95. said:

The Move is the best English language Tour de France podcast

No longer true. The Lanterne Rouge podcast has overtaken it imho.

Is that the same guy who runs the Youtube channel of the same name? He's insufferable. Used to just make a load of alluding statements about Sky in his early videos for views.

RichN95.

50x11 said:

m.r.m. said:

RichN95. said:

The Move is the best English language Tour de France podcast

No longer true. The Lanterne Rouge podcast has overtaken it imho.

Is that the same guy who runs the Youtube channel of the same name? He's insufferable. Used to just make a load of alluding statements about Sky in his early videos for views.

He was on some ITV preview show. He was dull as anything. They haven't used him since.

m.r.m.

While that may all be the case I find the analysis decent enough with the Belgian co-host. The move podcast is getting rather mediocre because Armstrong doesn't even pretend to care anymore. The podcast would probably be better focusing on Hincapie and Bryuneel. Bruyneel's podcast on the same channel is better.

The amount of advertising minutes on The Move is rather grating at times as well.

For me it's currently:
1. Lanterne Rouge
2. The Move preview Bruyneel podcast
3. The Move Armstrong
4. Rest

I wish Cosmo Catalano did more in the format. His 'How the race was won' videos are still the gold standard.

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

While that may all be the case I find the analysis decent enough with the Belgian co-host. The move podcast is getting rather mediocre because Armstrong doesn't even pretend to care anymore. The podcast would probably be better focusing on Hincapie and Bryuneel. Bruyneel's podcast on the same channel is better.

The amount of advertising minutes on The Move is rather grating at times as well.

I was including Bruyneel's one as part of the same podcast. The adverts are OK. They're at the beginning so easy to scroll past.

m.r.m.

Ok that is true.

DeadCalm

RichN95. said:

m.r.m. said:

While that may all be the case I find the analysis decent enough with the Belgian co-host. The move podcast is getting rather mediocre because Armstrong doesn't even pretend to care anymore. The podcast would probably be better focusing on Hincapie and Bryuneel. Bruyneel's podcast on the same channel is better.

The amount of advertising minutes on The Move is rather grating at times as well.

I was including Bruyneel's one as part of the same podcast. The adverts are OK. They're at the beginning so easy to scroll past.

The Bruyneel one is very good. The Armstrong one is okay but suffers from a surfeit of Armstrong.
I'd not heard of the Lanterne Rouge podcast before, but a quick 10 minute listen to yesterday's episode suggests that it may be worth checking out.

FreddieVonRost

Armstrong should just crawl into a hole and stay there. Odious, just odious.

50x11

RichN95. said:

50x11 said:

m.r.m. said:

RichN95. said:

The Move is the best English language Tour de France podcast

No longer true. The Lanterne Rouge podcast has overtaken it imho.

Is that the same guy who runs the Youtube channel of the same name? He's insufferable. Used to just make a load of alluding statements about Sky in his early videos for views.

He was on some ITV preview show. He was dull as anything. They haven't used him since.

Yeah he's poor and often does his videos months down the line when he's had time to read everything that's been written/watch others videos. May not be the case now if he's more active.

jimmyjams

Based on some I've read above early on, I think I'm on firm (unpopular) ground claiming LBL is actually the best classic.

Reminded of him from Blazing Saddles Stage 8 preview, I'd claim that Virenque was actually good. In the same way RichN95 has suggested Armstrong (without doping) would still have won some Tours, I think Virenque would have still won many KOMs.

There is too much differentiation for points on climbs, the cat 3 and 4 climbs should be upgraded to cat 2.

A combination jersey should be introduced (like some races had in the past) – although I suspect this may not be that unpopular.

Kauto5

On the podcast theme, Chris Horner has started putting a few post stage thoughts on YouTube which have been worth a listen.

takethehighroad

RichN95. said:

50x11 said:

m.r.m. said:

RichN95. said:

The Move is the best English language Tour de France podcast

No longer true. The Lanterne Rouge podcast has overtaken it imho.

Is that the same guy who runs the Youtube channel of the same name? He's insufferable. Used to just make a load of alluding statements about Sky in his early videos for views.

He was on some ITV preview show. He was dull as anything. They haven't used him since.

My favourite part was when they were all laughing at some David Millar quip and he was sat there stoney faced.

His insight is generally quite good, and he finds videos from obscure races, but his delivery is so ridiculously monotone it's off putting

DeVlaeminck

Have we had this one yet ? The Tour should scrap the yellow jersey.

Scrap it and until a genuine GC contender gets established in the lead nobody has such an incentive to control the race just to keep "the jersey" - and that makes the racing less predictable which is generally seen as a good thing.

Pross

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

TheBigBean

Which young riders have won a GT recently? Bernal and Carapaz?

tailwindhome

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Green Jersey competition

bobmcstuff

Pross said:

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

But. People race to "keep the yellow jersey" for another stage even when they have absolutely zero chance if holding it to Paris. This is silly.

DeVlaeminck

Pross said:

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

Yeah but the jersey makes an early race lead a goal in itself - if a GC no hoper holds the jersey for a week that can make the Tour for a lot of teams - even though they know they can't win in the end.

If a 2:15 marathon runner sprints off for the first 5k before dying in their arse nobody would say they had a great race.

Edit : or what Bob said

webboo

But a 2:15 marathon runner is competing for 2:15 not 3 weeks.

Lanterne_Rogue

DeVlaeminck said:

Pross said:

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

Yeah but the jersey makes an early race lead a goal in itself - if a GC no hoper holds the jersey for a week that can make the Tour for a lot of teams - even though they know they can't win in the end.

If a 2:15 marathon runner sprints off for the first 5k before dying in their censored nobody would say they had a great race.

Edit : or what Bob said

That's not the comparison though, is it? It's twenty-one marathons back to back, with the accumulated time at the end determining the winner. Someone completing the first one, two or three races is still having a great race at that point in time, even if - in fact particularly if - they're not expected to still be there at the end.

Anyway, you can't just declare the yellow jersey doesn't exist. The Lanterne Rouge has never been an official competition, and has even been deliberately suppressed in the past by kicking off the slowest rider each day. That hasn't stopped people actively racing for it.

Pross

bobmcstuff said:

Pross said:

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

But. People race to "keep the yellow jersey" for another stage even when they have absolutely zero chance if holding it to Paris. This is silly.

But that's just shorthand for holding the race lead so I don't see taking away the visual representation would be any different.

You would also have to take away the other jerseys by that rationale. It makes even less sense classifying a bridge on an otherwise pan flat stage as a climb in the King of the Mountains competition just to get a few suicide attacks up the road.

salsiccia1

tailwindhome said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Green Jersey competition

I'd like to see the green jersey changed so every stage gave the same points, and stop it being the "sprinters' jersey", and maybe introduce a real sprinters competition for points mid-stage (like currently) and points at the end of just the flat stages.

bobmcstuff

Lanterne_Rogue said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Pross said:

Eh? You'll still have a race leader whether they have a special jumper or not and having a once in a lifetime chance to wear it livens up the early stages.

Yeah but the jersey makes an early race lead a goal in itself - if a GC no hoper holds the jersey for a week that can make the Tour for a lot of teams - even though they know they can't win in the end.

If a 2:15 marathon runner sprints off for the first 5k before dying in their censored nobody would say they had a great race.

Edit : or what Bob said

That's not the comparison though, is it? It's twenty-one marathons back to back, with the accumulated time at the end determining the winner. Someone completing the first one, two or three races is still having a great race at that point in time, even if - in fact particularly if - they're not expected to still be there at the end.

Anyway, you can't just declare the yellow jersey doesn't exist. The Lanterne Rouge has never been an official competition, and has even been deliberately suppressed in the past by kicking off the slowest rider each day. That hasn't stopped people actively racing for it.

But you're talking about stage wins - which would still exist! You can win 3 stages and have a great race without doing loads of weird perverse sh!t to try and maintain something which you never really had.

We all know the "leader in the clubhouse" concept - that is much more relevant than someone clinging to the yellow jersey who's 85 kilos and we all know won't last past the first hill.

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

Have we had this one yet ? The Tour should scrap the yellow jersey.

Scrap it and until a genuine GC contender gets established in the lead nobody has such an incentive to control the race just to keep "the jersey" - and that makes the racing less predictable which is generally seen as a good thing.

Another flaw in this is when would you consider someone a "genuine contender"? We could have had most on the 1990 Tour without a yellow jersey and up until Stage 19 in both 2011 and 2019. In 1991 would it have been awarded to Lemond then stopped again when Delgado's domestique took it over and held it until the end?

Lanterne_Rogue

bobmcstuff said:

But you're talking about stage wins - which would still exist! You can win 3 stages and have a great race without doing loads of weird perverse sh!t to try and maintain something which you never really had.

No, I'm not. Someone who has the best time in three consecutive marathons despite coming second in all of them is having a heck of a run if you were expecting him to come 123rd. No stage wins required, and that situation is very different to the hypothetical marathon runner sprinting a few km and then blowing up - the cycling equivalent of that is the guys going out in the break, and as cycling doesn't currently insist that the leader in the break pulls over to change jerseys we can discount it as a comparison.

Lanterne_Rogue

Also the contention that "it's silly" holds no water. Sport itself is silly. The Tour frequently ends up less than a couple of hundred miles from where it started. Cycling 3,800km to get there is just nuts. Get the bus to Paris instead, you fools.

Any appeal to rationality in sport - especially cycling - is doomed to failure. There - now that's a properly unpopular opinion.

blazing_saddles

So, since Oscar Pereiro was not considered to be a genuine GC contender, he would never have got to wear the yellow jersey.

Or have I got this idea wrong?

rick_chasey

I’m sort of coming around to the idea that maybe Armstrong was net good for cycling

TheBigBean

This forum spends far too much time talking about Sky/Ineos