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  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,089
    andyp said:

    There was nothing stopping Alf Engers from attempting the hour record. He wouldn't have beaten Merckx.

    If you read Hutch's book, it's actually quite complicated to organise an attempt and in the days of Engers there was no suitable velodrome in the UK, which would have made an attempt even more complicated and costly (look at Boardman's hour in Bordeaux for example).

    The big question mark with the hour record is that you have to produce the performance on the day, so it's difficult to compare with TTs, which you do a bunch of and pick your best as representative of how fast you can go. With the hour you only have a shot, many only had one shot in a career, like Merckx, for instance. It is likely that you will end up going faster in a TT, but only for that reason... boards are faster and on the same night, in the same place you would post a better time in a velodrome than on open roads.

    Engers was head and shoulders above his competitors and probably the only world class tester in those days... I would put him on par with Wiggins, in the discipline. I think on his night, he could have gone faster than Merckx did.... I also think the absolute value of Merckx was better than 49.700 km, but that is a different story, as I said, he only had one shot and that's the distance he covered
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,482
    Pross said:

    Matching shorts and bikes with leader's jerseys is a really good look, especially the Tour polka dots.

    That's beyond trolling
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,280
    I think you can see from how Evans rode in 2011 that he'd learned his lessons from 2008. On the Galibier stage he went to the front as soon as his team was done and rode hard all the way to the finish. He didn't mess about trying to get anyone to help him, just rode as hard as he could from the Lauteret to the finish. The fact that Frank Schleck jumped away and got a few seconds was irrelevant, Evans had done enough to put himself in a Tour winning position.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,482
    edited 9 August
    andyp said:

    I think you can see from how Evans rode in 2011 that he'd learned his lessons from 2008. On the Galibier stage he went to the front as soon as his team was done and rode hard all the way to the finish. He didn't mess about trying to get anyone to help him, just rode as hard as he could from the Lauteret to the finish. The fact that Frank Schleck jumped away and got a few seconds was irrelevant, Evans had done enough to put himself in a Tour winning position.

    One of the greatest defensive rides ever .
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,482
    Electric gear shifting is a race losing unreliable tech
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ProssPross Posts: 23,897

    Pross said:

    Matching shorts and bikes with leader's jerseys is a really good look, especially the Tour polka dots.

    That's beyond trolling
    I was fed up with no-one posting anything remotely unpopular.
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 2,516
    I must admit to a sneaking regard for anyone who goes all in with polka dot everything, including glasses. I still think they're an idiot, but I applaud their whole-hearted commitment to their idiocy.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,837

    Electric gear shifting is a race losing unreliable tech

    It's no worse than gear cables snapping, these days.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 15,712
    The Tour should finish with a time trial up Alpe d'Huez or the Tourmalet, instead of a pointless, celebratory sprint around the Champs-Élysées.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,948
    Following on from the above - Alpe d'Huez should be retired from the Tour de France
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,297
    Grand Tour races should allow substitutes.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,089
    RichN95. said:

    Following on from the above - Alpe d'Huez should be retired from the Tour de France

    THis
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,086 Lives Here

    Grand Tour races should allow substitutes.

    Oh that is absolutely appalling.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,086 Lives Here
    edited 9 August

    Electric gear shifting is a race losing unreliable tech

    It's no worse than gear cables snapping, these days.
    When has that ever happened in the last 10 years?
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,297

    Grand Tour races should allow substitutes.

    Oh that is absolutely appalling.
    Yeah. There was a 20 page thread for everyone to tell me what a stupid idea it was :)

    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,474

    Grand Tour races should allow substitutes.

    Get out.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,086 Lives Here

    RichN95. said:

    Following on from the above - Alpe d'Huez should be retired from the Tour de France

    THis
    SMH.

    Very on topic.
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,474
    Grand Tours shouldn't start outside their home country, or at the very least not in countries that they don't share a land border with. And DEFINITELY not in countries with their own GT.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 20,374

    Grand Tour races should allow substitutes.

    Oh that is absolutely appalling.
    Yeah. There was a 20 page thread for everyone to tell me what a stupid idea it was :)

    Like an awful lot of cycling lore it would be better if people could stop getting so over excited about it.

    It has as much to recommend it as a stage Finish as any other reasonably significant uphill.

    Just enjoy it for the spectacle, but don't expect race fireworks just cos it's "The Alpe"
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 15,712
    The order of the team cars in the convoy should be decided each day by a Le Mans start.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 1,961

    Grand Tours shouldn't start outside their home country, or at the very least not in countries that they don't share a land border with. And DEFINITELY not in countries with their own GT.

    This is finally doing it right
    PTP Champion 2019
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 1,961
    We should find an incentive to make all GC contenders ride all GT's.

    The lineup should be the same for all GT's.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 12,669
    m.r.m. said:

    We should find an incentive to make all GC contenders ride all GT's.

    The lineup should be the same for all GT's.

    Remove lucrative contracts and greatly increase prize money?
    I think that would be unpopular, but effective. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,659
    It's been years since overall the classics have been as good as the grand tours.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,089

    The order of the team cars in the convoy should be decided each day by a Le Mans start.

    there should be no team car at all
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 2,915
    Cycling is a team sport. The team competition is therefore the most important competition at any Grand Tour.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,659

    Cycling is a team sport. The team competition is therefore the most important competition at any Grand Tour.

    I think you're supposed to believe what you post.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,031
    ^in the same way, the WC should be a team award.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 9,983
    Long boring races and tour sprint stages aren't just a necessary evil, they the bedrock of the sport and we'd miss them were they gone
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 11,373
    Indeed, people who complain about long flat stages in GTs are the kind who wouldn't see the point in test cricket when T20 gets the action done much quicker. There is beauty in a stage you can dip into and out of over the course of several hours and not miss anything important.
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