Unpopular Opinions

rjsterry

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

You could use the same liability laws like you do in the Netherlands - in a car v bicycle accident, the car is assumed to be at fault unless it can be proved otherwise.

Guilty until proven innocent? Don't like that system at all.
You would have to alter the law. That would have implications for other laws.
Far simpler to impose mandatory insurance.

You are muddling civil and criminal law. Injury claims are civil law, where there is no guilty/not guilty.

rick_chasey

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

You could use the same liability laws like you do in the Netherlands - in a car v bicycle accident, the car is assumed to be at fault unless it can be proved otherwise.

Guilty until proven innocent? Don't like that system at all.
You would have to alter the law. That would have implications for other laws.
Far simpler to impose mandatory insurance.

Loads of countries do this.

Are you not familiar with libel in the UK?

TheBigBean

As an aside, you're guilty until you have proved your innocence with the FCA. Obviously perfectly reasonable because if you don't like it, you can appeal against the conviction to... the FCA!

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

ballysmate said:

They are not always petty. Cause an accident resulting in significant damage or injury and you can and will be sued.
Fancy selling your house to settle a claim?
Just because you have no insurance doesn't absolve you of liability.

People don't have liability as part of their home insurance?

Not everyone has home insurance.

My point was that many are unaware that they are already insured.
Many are doubling, or even tripling their insurance cover needlessly.

ddraver

oxoman said:

Finally none of the above will ever be sorted until we educate everyone from an early age upwards that cycling isn't bad and cyclists aren't targets verbally or physically.

👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋

rick_chasey

ddraver said:

oxoman said:

Finally none of the above will ever be sorted until we educate everyone from an early age upwards that cycling isn't bad and cyclists aren't targets verbally or physically.

👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋

If almost everyone uses a bike, then everyone is a cyclist some of the time .

pinno

oxoman said:

Finally none of the above will ever be sorted until we educate everyone from an early age upwards that cycling isn't bad and cyclists aren't targets verbally or physically.

In the 25 years that will take, what would you do in the meantime?

God forbid a cyclist has to put his hand in his pocket and actually pay for some insurance.
No qualms about spending £500 on a set of hoops but spend some money on insurance?!

Insurance that would pay for some of the things I have listed but more importantly, would probably have a significant effect on drivers attitude towards us.
Infrastructure... paid for partly through the insurance scheme perhaps?
You're all in dreamland if you think that wholesale infrastructure will be a) forthcoming and b) something that would happen overnight. Again, if it was on the cards, how long would it take and what are you going to do in the meantime?

Nice (massaging) post Oxo but it was preaching to the converted.

twotoebenny

I don't understand the insurance driver attitude/respect correlation, can you explain?

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

They are not always petty. Cause an accident resulting in significant damage or injury and you can and will be sued.
Fancy selling your house to settle a claim?
Just because you have no insurance doesn't absolve you of liability.

Would prefer we don't head down the same route as professional services where claims are made on the basis of who has the biggest insurance cover.

As someone has already pointed out. Insurance is for the benefit of the insured.
Peace of mind knowing that if I cause an accident my liability is covered.
Others may prefer to take the risk but should not bleat if the worst happens and they are faced with huge bills.
All I will be out of pocket is the small premium.

rick_chasey

I think Pinno seems to think most cyclists are like this:

They are more like this:


and in an ideal world, they will look like this:

morstar

twotoebenny said:

I don't understand the insurance driver attitude/respect correlation, can you explain?

It dismantles one of the motorists arguments against cyclists.
If I argue devils advocate, I’d say you’re tackling the symptoms rather than the cause so the issue doesn’t materially change. But it may be slightly more tolerable.
The root cause is human nature, people are more arrogant when they feel safe. See studies on driving with and without seatbelts.
People in cars feel indestructible compared to a cyclist, a lower form of road user. Therefore the lower life form can be treated with contempt.

twotoebenny

It's the same as the argument with having a camera, it doesn't make any cyclist safer.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

They are not always petty. Cause an accident resulting in significant damage or injury and you can and will be sued.
Fancy selling your house to settle a claim?
Just because you have no insurance doesn't absolve you of liability.

Would prefer we don't head down the same route as professional services where claims are made on the basis of who has the biggest insurance cover.

As someone has already pointed out. Insurance is for the benefit of the insured.
Peace of mind knowing that if I cause an accident my liability is covered.
Others may prefer to take the risk but should not bleat if the worst happens and they are faced with huge bills.
All I will be out of pocket is the small premium.

Yes, in a domestic context that's how it works. In professional context, the party that's lost out looks at who has the highest PI cover and goes after them. Two teams of lawyers then argue for several months and eventually settle for a figure far in excess of the original loss. Next renewal your premiums go through the roof. It would be a real shame if personal public liability insurance went the same way. "Oh, you've got insurance. In that case, that scratched wing means my car is a write off."

Dorset_Boy

Seeing Continental have launched a tan walled version of the GP5000, I say tan walled tyres look shit.

ballysmate

oxoman said:

DB your not wrong about as censored as white wall tyres on cars.

Unless your name is Huggy Bear or you are a pimp in a '70s movie.

Pross

Dorset_Boy said:

Seeing Continental have launched a tan walled version of the GP5000, I say tan walled tyres look censored .

Just saw Geraint had posted about them on Instagram and thought the same.

Harry182

Ha! Came here to post that tan sidewalls are ugly, impractical, pseudo retro chic. Seems opinion is not as unpopular as I'd assumed.

pinno

oxoman said:

Pinno, given the changes I've seen over the last 40yrs on the roads sadly it will take more than 25yrs for everything to happen. Who would have thought back in the 80,s that we'd have a national cycle network and MTB trail centres or shared paths today. Some things improve but not all at the speed we'd like.

My point entirely re. infrastructure/education.

Rick seems to think I live in a bubble. That I don't see news items or programs about commuters in London (or the deaths) or haven't witnessed the sheer volume of commuters in London. 270,000 of them apparently.
Nor the cycle super highway in Seattle or even, my 5 years in Sweden where I cycled every where, including Stockholm, where I hardly had an incident and of the incidents, was quickly followed by an apologetic hand from both parties. I experienced no animosity from car drivers there.
Stockholm does not have the cycle lanes in abundance that other European cities have either.
Holland has really catered for cyclists but for car drivers, it can be hell.

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

Voting cards should be made much more complicated, to weed out uninformed opinions of thick people.

You must be a Tory!

No, actually. I'm just surrounded by idiots and it troubles me to suffer the consequences.

TheBigBean

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

Downsides are:
- don't experience a different culture - with all that comes with that, different food, different priorities, different language, different weather, different religion, different style of cultural attractions, blah blah blah
- too many of your own country folk (after all, the point of going abroad is to get away from your own country folk - which is why bumping into them on holiday is so awful)

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Downsides are:
- too many of your own country folk (after all, the point of going abroad is to get away from your own country folk - which is why bumping into them on holiday is so awful)

I do my best not to be recognised a English by other English people in my corner of France, but occasionally screw that up by wearing an Exeter Wheelers jersey - bit of a giveaway. Weirdly, I don't mind being recognised as English by French people, as long as they don't speak English to me.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

Downsides are:
- don't experience a different culture - with all that comes with that, different food, different priorities, different language, different weather, different religion, different style of cultural attractions, blah blah blah
- too many of your own country folk (after all, the point of going abroad is to get away from your own country folk - which is why bumping into them on holiday is so awful)

The UK is in Europe and fully covered by my opinion.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

Some of those only apply if you visit tourist trap destinations along with everyone else though. I'm sure there are plenty of areas in France, Italy, Spain etc. where you can get away from it all without the hassle of being surrounded by tourists which, in turn, will make it far cheaper. Then there's plenty of emerging European destinations like Slovenia, Montenegro, Bulgaria or even Albania.

The requirement for a car will then depend on whether you're happy just enjoying the area you're visiting or if you want to do some tourism. My parents somehow manage to go away without ever using a car; places like Greece, Turkey and the Italian Lakes. They either use local transport or do a lot of walking - it always surprises me as they don't speak any foreign languages and aren't IT literate enough to be able to research things. If it was me I'd need to have it all planned in advance.

I'm not well travelled and we tend to holiday mainly in the UK, although we should have been going to Venice and Garda next month, but I've managed a few holidays to relatively quiet destinations and kept costs down by camping. We have tended to travel by car / ferry though.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

Downsides are:
- don't experience a different culture - with all that comes with that, different food, different priorities, different language, different weather, different religion, different style of cultural attractions, blah blah blah
- too many of your own country folk (after all, the point of going abroad is to get away from your own country folk - which is why bumping into them on holiday is so awful)

The UK is in Europe and fully covered by my opinion.

Ah you mean heading outside of the continent?

How is that cheaper?!

pinno

All the travel is a PITA.
Flying isn't what it used to be. You feel like you are being crammed in to an overcrowded bus.

Yep - hate bumping in to British tourists abroad. They make me cringe.

secretsam

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

For starters, the UK is part of Europe, maybe you meant 'continental'? And the same could be said of all holiday destinations.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

European holidays are overrated.

My workings:
- relatively short holiday season
- expensive
- busy at all times of the year, but especially during the holiday season
- available airlines are almost always budget carriers, and can frequently not be that cheap
- there is a presumption of car ownership for a lot of things

Downsides are:
- don't experience a different culture - with all that comes with that, different food, different priorities, different language, different weather, different religion, different style of cultural attractions, blah blah blah
- too many of your own country folk (after all, the point of going abroad is to get away from your own country folk - which is why bumping into them on holiday is so awful)

The UK is in Europe and fully covered by my opinion.

Ah you mean heading outside of the continent?

How is that cheaper?!

Flights costs more, but not that much more, and are also comfortable. Everything on arrival is then better value for money, so it depends on how long you go for. I suppose it also depends how many people you are paying for.

secretsam

Harry182 said:

Ha! Came here to post that tan sidewalls are ugly, impractical, pseudo retro chic. Seems opinion is not as unpopular as I'd assumed.

Tan walls are gross. I have a black bike, I want black tyres.

secretsam

Gold chains are just horrible, they are like c0ck rings for your bike.