Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting
Comments
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Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
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You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!0 -
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!1 -
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!1 -
But you are doing very well to avoid the issue, you still think that someone who threatens a pregnant woman with a gun is a minor criminal.kingstongraham said:
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!
I suppose it is like anything, if that pregnant woman had been a member of your family your sympathy towards Floyd may not be so great.
But hey, it happened to someone else so let's show how liberal we are!0 -
I didn't say any of that, because I don't think it's relevant.womack said:
But you are doing very well to avoid the issue, you still think that someone who threatens a pregnant woman with a gun is a minor criminal.kingstongraham said:
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!
I suppose it is like anything, if that pregnant woman had been a member of your family your sympathy towards Floyd may not be so great.
But hey, it happened to someone else so let's show how liberal we are!
Bloke got murdered by a policeman. Don't think the response should be "yes, but".0 -
the fact he was a violent criminal, convicted of robbery with threats to murder two people is not irrelevant.kingstongraham said:
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!
nor is his behaviour which led to the hard arrest. The execution of which was wrong.
if he were white there wouldnt have been a murmur . The world is better without people like floyd.
bad things tend to happen to bad people.1 -
Reading his list of crimes, the term minor criminal does seem to be more appropriate than major or career criminal.
Although it hardly seems relevant to the case to be honest.
It's good to see that being against police murder in cases of using fake money is somehow a Liberal position though.0 -
you think sticking a gun against a pregnant woman's stomach and threatening to kill her baby in order to rob her makes him just a minor criminal?Jezyboy said:Reading his list of crimes, the term minor criminal does seem to be more appropriate than major or career criminal.
Although it hardly seems relevant to the case to be honest.
It's good to see that being against police murder in cases of using fake money is somehow a Liberal position though.
id say you do have a liberal position yes. the fact that so many people hold the same opinion is quite frankly disappointing. Society is blighted by scum like that black or white theyre not minor or petty criminals theyre scum. Floyd was dangerously mental scum.
Liberal magistrates courts prefer to see them as petty criminals and because they have addictions try to reintegrate . the net effect being that they carry on doing exactly what they want and cause ongoing and massive costs and trauma to society. Whilst the policeman has been found guilty of murdering him he's also done society a favour by getting rid of at least one violent scum bag.
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Maybe you guys could just settle for criminal?
Worth remembering that unless he ends up in permanent solitary confinement, the policeman in question will end up being unlawfully killed too."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
You're swerving the issue that he was murdered. The exact classification of major or minor career criminal is irrelevant. He was murdered by an on duty officer having allegedly perpetrated a minor offence.womack said:
But you are doing very well to avoid the issue, you still think that someone who threatens a pregnant woman with a gun is a minor criminal.kingstongraham said:
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!
I suppose it is like anything, if that pregnant woman had been a member of your family your sympathy towards Floyd may not be so great.
But hey, it happened to someone else so let's show how liberal we are!
I actually agree GF is a difficult character to celebrate. But , following his murder, his death has taken on more meaning than his less than perfect life.
The police are not judge, jury and executioner and the officer was not keeping his knee on his neck whilst listening to reasoned arguments and criminal career history or in any way threatened once the suspect was contained. That matters.2 -
I don’t think the policeman has done society a favour at all - he’s murdered a man and caused massive division. Unless you think every criminal should be murdered by the police. Maybe public hangings, like the Taliban?
Floyd sounds like he was highly unpleasant, but the policeman chose to murder him when he should have arrested him, scumbag or not. It was just so blatant.0 -
Perhaps you can explain what you think Floyd's character has to do with him being murdered by a policeman.womack said:
But you are doing very well to avoid the issue, you still think that someone who threatens a pregnant woman with a gun is a minor criminal.kingstongraham said:
He was arrested for using a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. While being arrested for that, he was murdered by the police officer.womack said:
Regardless, it is something he had form for, so is he still a minor criminal?kingstongraham said:
You know that wasn't what he was being arested for. Or you should do.womack said:
Holding a gun to a pregnant woman is a minor criminal? I'd hate to meet someone who you regard as a major criminal!morstar said:
I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.womack said:I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.
A real role model!
By the same token you could say Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion and let's forget his previous making him a minor criminal!
I suppose it is like anything, if that pregnant woman had been a member of your family your sympathy towards Floyd may not be so great.
But hey, it happened to someone else so let's show how liberal we are!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Again, if your response to a policeman murdering someone is "yes, but..." then I think you have a problem.0
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I have never said "yes but" so I don't know where you have got that from and know I don't have a problem.kingstongraham said:Again, if your response to a policeman murdering someone is "yes, but..." then I think you have a problem.
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Seems Chauvin has an interesting past himself.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxnotes/2020/07/30/tax-crimes-may-ensure-a-conviction-for-derek-chauvin/?sh=59b9f8f03906&fbclid=IwAR1A22sO17FyjiinODfvJnDJtNco4OH9ogmTwH2kxM8SP-iR7uZR-V6EvZI
I’ve not fact checked any of this but that hardly seems the done thing when excusing George Floyds murder.0 -
True, your responses generally miss the "yes".womack said:
I have never said "yes but" so I don't know where you have got that from and know I don't have a problem.kingstongraham said:Again, if your response to a policeman murdering someone is "yes, but..." then I think you have a problem.
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Well this could be awkward
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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Wasn't aware of the Maya Forstater case until today. If our media are giving a fair representation of the case it's pretty shocking that she lost her original employment tribunal - basically for tweeting the opinion that biological sex was fixed. Thankfully that decision has been overturned on appeal.
I'd like to see the original tweet that got her sacked.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]3 -
Oh man the gender thing is a can of worms 100x worse anything else in terms of the toxicity of the debate.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-50858919.ampDeVlaeminck said:Wasn't aware of the Maya Forstater case until today. If our media are giving a fair representation of the case it's pretty shocking that she lost her original employment tribunal - basically for tweeting the opinion that biological sex was fixed. Thankfully that decision has been overturned on appeal.
I'd like to see the original tweet that got her sacked.
Report of the original case - there's a link to the full written judgment which has all of the facts of the case set out.0 -
I feel like it's one of the first social issues where "millenials" are likely to find themselves out of step with the younger generation.rick_chasey said:Oh man the gender thing is a can of worms 100x worse anything else in terms of the toxicity of the debate.
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Totally.Jezyboy said:
I feel like it's one of the first social issues where "millenials" are likely to find themselves out of step with the younger generation.rick_chasey said:Oh man the gender thing is a can of worms 100x worse anything else in terms of the toxicity of the debate.
Watching your wife go through birth rather puts the whole sex/gender thing into some perspective.
I would say though it is not necessarily just a woke/not woke thing, but I think there are parts of the movement which seem hell bent on getting stuck into feminism.
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Outside of the seemingly unresolvable questions such sporting performance and practicle issues such as what toilets or changing facilities should be used I really can't see why (other than possibly people with an ethical objection to people making a physical transformation). I don't understand how what gender someone wants to refer to themselves as makes the slightest bit of difference. I think a lot of people struggle with the conventions of how to refer to trans or gender fluid people which will lead to offense being taken where none is intended but other than that it will probably be the same people who hate anyone who is different to them. If there is a much more toxic debate then I suspect it is because it is the new discrimination on the block and toxicity relating the subject of race or sexuality is gradually subsiding although race in particular seems to have turned pretty toxic again in the past year or so.rick_chasey said:Oh man the gender thing is a can of worms 100x worse anything else in terms of the toxicity of the debate.
BTW you my want to rethink your use of the phrase 'oh boy' and choose something more gender neutral
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I wonder if there were many gender fluid people around in Edward Colston's day and if they were accepted back then?0
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It'll be interesting to see if transgender men and women do become fully accepted as men and women socially as well as in law.
By coincidence I was in the pub the other night (the Jonty Farmer if anyone knows Derby) and one of the guys I was with said he'd matched with a transgender woman on tinder and and gone on a date with them.
The woman was open about being transgender on her profile - I'm so out of touch with the modern world I've never actually seen tinder but I assume you have a profile - this guy knew before the date anyway thought about it and decided he was happy to date a transgender woman.
6 pints in they went back to his and get naked and to this guy's surprise his date has a co ck and ba lls - the guy assumed transgender meant post op - I suppose that's when you really find out what your beliefs are.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I think acceptance is vital - currently I think a lot of trans people get serious abuse, being beat up etc, on a very regular basis.
I think the challenge is what shape and size that acceptance is.
A lot of the rub and (reasonable) resistance I see is around people who's sex is male who are entering female only spaces. That poses a challenge for women who themselves have their own discriminatory issues - from men!
I think there also need to be a recognition that gender identity is important not just to trans people but also to people who identify with the sex they're born with, and so it is about finding a compromise.
Some of the trans stuff can come across as a load of men wanting to intrude into the female only world, insisting tampons packaging doesn't refer to women specifically and things like that.
At the same time, trans people are having a rough time in society, and that clearly needs to change. A lot of them are at a high risk of violence etc and often find themselves excluded from parts of society. That isn't fair nor right.
I do honestly think that if you actually witness pregnancy and birth you will really question take the "sex is merely a construct" attitude.0 -
Sounds like a social etiquette minefield - did you carry on regardless?DeVlaeminck said:It'll be interesting to see if transgender men and women do become fully accepted as men and women socially as well as in law.
By coincidence I was in the pub the other night (the Jonty Farmer if anyone knows Derby) and one of the guys I was with said he'd matched with a transgender woman on tinder and and gone on a date with them.
The woman was open about being transgender on her profile - I'm so out of touch with the modern world I've never actually seen tinder but I assume you have a profile - this guy knew before the date anyway thought about it and decided he was happy to date a transgender woman.
6 pints in they went back to his and get naked and to this guy's surprise his date has a co ck and ba lls - the guy assumed transgender meant post op - I suppose that's when you really find out what your beliefs are.2 -
I agree with youentirely but my concern is that we are now the equivalent of our racist grandparents who couldn't see anything wrong with the terms they were using.Pross said:
Outside of the seemingly unresolvable questions such sporting performance and practicle issues such as what toilets or changing facilities should be used I really can't see why (other than possibly people with an ethical objection to people making a physical transformation). I don't understand how what gender someone wants to refer to themselves as makes the slightest bit of difference. I think a lot of people struggle with the conventions of how to refer to trans or gender fluid people which will lead to offense being taken where none is intended but other than that it will probably be the same people who hate anyone who is different to them. If there is a much more toxic debate then I suspect it is because it is the new discrimination on the block and toxicity relating the subject of race or sexuality is gradually subsiding although race in particular seems to have turned pretty toxic again in the past year or so.rick_chasey said:Oh man the gender thing is a can of worms 100x worse anything else in terms of the toxicity of the debate.
BTW you my want to rethink your use of the phrase 'oh boy' and choose something more gender neutral0
