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Edward Colston/Trans rights/Stamp collecting

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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,773
    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    Was just about to post the same. Plenty of examples of that kind of thing around here.
    I feel a lot of people could learn from this paragraph:

    "How can we get around this? One way is to talk without using these highly charged, badly defined terms. “Taboo your words”: rather than ask “Is Britain a racist country?”, ask “Do ethnic minorities have worse outcomes than white people?” (Yes.) Or “Are black people less likely to be hired than equivalently qualified white people?” (Yes.) Rather than saying “Is cancel culture real?”, ask “How many people lose their jobs over social media outrage?” (Some, although I have no idea how widespread a problem it is.) Then you avoid the slippery definitions and vague mood-affiliation and can talk about real things." as a lot of the arguments on here stem from how people interpret a 'high charged' word (and we really do have the both extremes among regular posters).
    Lol, trust me, the discussions on here are not remotely on the extreme save for the botser.
    I would say quite a few take the Oxford Dictionary definition of racism which is why people get a bit narked at its use whilst others use it in line with the CRE definition so that's the two extremes of the definition I would suggest (I'm not suggesting people on here hold views at the extreme ends). I suppose the one extreme could be that you are only racist if you actively attack people on the basis of their race rather the Oxford definition though.
    Adding to the theme of redefining words, I see that 'silenced' now means 'some people have questioned the accuracy of what you have published'. And when a person responds to that criticism with a feature article in a national paper, well, that's being silenced all over again. Tony Sewell is on the front of the Telegraph claiming not only that he is being 'silenced' (see the Features section), but also that the fact that some people disagree with his report 'proves' that he was right.
    Just read that interview - he does the usual thing of pushing back against things that not many people have said.
    “Where is this underachievement among black Caribbean boys coming from?” he asks. “We’ve almost instinctively said it’s to do with white teacher racism”.


    Also this does not chime with the narrative that came out from people misreading the report:
    Sewell wants “a stern debate around slavery, how awful and destructive it was, a system that made just profits for the Empire – we need to bring those facts out”.


    And obviously this isn't a logical truth:
    when people are desperate to silence you and discredit you, you must be saying something that’s true.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,076



    And obviously this isn't a logical truth:

    when people are desperate to silence you and discredit you, you must be saying something that’s true.
    Like when the government are trying to silence the bbc?
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,773
    edited 8 April
    I was thinking more about David Icke.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,551
    Or Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here
    I have to say a lot of the arguments are the same arguments you get from the drunken bore at the pub.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here
    Since this is the defacto race thread.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/race-report-un-boris-johnson-commission-b1833671.html

    An arm of the United Nations has condemned the “shocking” Race Commission report ordered by Boris Johnson and called for the body to be scrapped.

    The widely criticised study was attacked for “ignoring racial disparities” and for “shifting the blame for the impacts of racism to the people most impacted by it”.

    “In 2021, it is stunning to read a report on race and ethnicity that repackages racist tropes and stereotypes into fact, twisting data and misapplying statistics and studies,” said experts from the UN Human Rights Council.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,570
    Colour me surprised.

    One thing which I do wonder (and I honestly don't know) is if we are institutionally racist as a country, or if everyone's individual biases make it seem that way.

    Interestingly we are much less racist as a nation than most of our european neighbours.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,648 Lives Here


    Interestingly we are much less racist as a nation than most of our european neighbours.

    I believe so, certainly less so than Italy in my experience. Unfortunately some people will take this as meaning we don't have work to do.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,570
    I think in the spirit of david37 - we don't need to be constantly self flagelatting over the matter - but I agree that there is room for improvement.

    And I say that as a white middle class male - so clearly have no idea what it's like as someone on the receiving end.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here

    I think in the spirit of david37 - we don't need to be constantly self flagelatting over the matter - but I agree that there is room for improvement.

    And I say that as a white middle class male - so clearly have no idea what it's like as someone on the receiving end.

    It's fairly simple.

    It is a problem and it needs to be rectified. Denying that there is a problem because elsewhere is worse will only worsen the problem.

    It's easy for white people to say there shouldn't be so much self flagellating because they're not at the receiving end of the institutional biases, right?

    How about agree there is a problem and work out ways to solve it?
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,570
    That's pretty much exactly what I said
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here

    That's pretty much exactly what I said

    That's not how the "we don't need to be constantly self flagelatting over the matter" came across - sounded like you don't think it's a problem worth worrying about.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,570
    Words included yet seemingly not read:
    - constantly
    - room for improvement
    - I say this as a white middle....
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,551

    Words included yet seemingly not read:
    - constantly
    - room for improvement
    - I say this as a white middle....

    Rick only reads the words he can argue with.
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313

    I think in the spirit of david37 - we don't need to be constantly self flagelatting over the matter - but I agree that there is room for improvement.

    And I say that as a white middle class male - so clearly have no idea what it's like as someone on the receiving end.

    It's fairly simple.

    It is a problem and it needs to be rectified. Denying that there is a problem because elsewhere is worse will only worsen the problem.

    It's easy for white people to say there shouldn't be so much self flagellating because they're not at the receiving end of the institutional biases, right?

    How about agree there is a problem and work out ways to solve it?
    except white middle class men are completely at the receiving end through organisations like yours "levelling things up". like every white man has benifited and every black person or woman is a victim. only black and women and trans and whatever else are flavour of the month and the values of equality are somehow muted when it comes to white people.

    its racism pure and simple until you stop talking about people and adding a characteristic to describe them.

    When people are people, that is when equality has been achieved.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    edited 21 April


    Interestingly we are much less racist as a nation than most of our european neighbours.

    I believe so, certainly less so than Italy in my experience. Unfortunately some people will take this as meaning we don't have work to do.
    There are huge regional variations aswell which means your knowledge of racism may be influenced by the places you know/reside.

    My move to the north west definitely took me back a couple of decades in attitudes I witnessed.

  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 18,198
    morstar said:


    Interestingly we are much less racist as a nation than most of our european neighbours.

    I believe so, certainly less so than Italy in my experience. Unfortunately some people will take this as meaning we don't have work to do.
    There are huge regional variations aswell which means your knowledge of racism may be influenced by the places you know/reside.

    My move to the north west definitely took me back a couple of decades in attitudes I witnessed.

    Certainly the case with me as the county in which I live currently has a population that is 99.1% white. (Surrounding counties are between 97.5% to 99.3% white.)
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 24,648 Lives Here
    david37 said:

    I think in the spirit of david37 - we don't need to be constantly self flagelatting over the matter - but I agree that there is room for improvement.

    And I say that as a white middle class male - so clearly have no idea what it's like as someone on the receiving end.

    It's fairly simple.

    It is a problem and it needs to be rectified. Denying that there is a problem because elsewhere is worse will only worsen the problem.

    It's easy for white people to say there shouldn't be so much self flagellating because they're not at the receiving end of the institutional biases, right?

    How about agree there is a problem and work out ways to solve it?
    except white middle class men are completely at the receiving end through organisations like yours "levelling things up". like every white man has benifited and every black person or woman is a victim. only black and women and trans and whatever else are flavour of the month and the values of equality are somehow muted when it comes to white people.

    its racism pure and simple until you stop talking about people and adding a characteristic to describe them.

    When people are people, that is when equality has been achieved.
    You are Lawrence Fox AICMFP.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here
    Speaking of which, he's polling around the same as Count Binhead.
  • JezyboyJezyboy Posts: 988

    Speaking of which, he's polling around the same as Count Binhead.

    I really don't get why he's standing. Surely there's enough money in the right wing twitter grifter game, rather than being humiliated with election results.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,773
    Jezyboy said:

    Speaking of which, he's polling around the same as Count Binhead.

    I really don't get why he's standing. Surely there's enough money in the right wing twitter grifter game, rather than being humiliated with election results.
    He wants to do something about the hand dryer in the gents' at the Crown and Treaty, Uxbridge.

    To be fair, it does look like it needs sorting.

  • ProssPross Posts: 29,551
    Surprised there hasn't been mention of the guilty verdict in the George Floyd murder case (I couldn't find the original BLM thread). I have to admit I didn't expect it, possibly a good sign that things are moving in the right direction? It will be interesting to see what comes of the USAG's investigation into the policies of the police department.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,280 Lives Here
    Wasn’t there some stat that American police kill people on most days?

  • john80john80 Posts: 2,405

    Wasn’t there some stat that American police kill people on most days?

    It is kind of inevitable if you tool up the public to a level where it is assumed you are carrying.
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,568

    Wasn’t there some stat that American police kill people on most days?

    The stat in my mind IIRIC, is that on average US police kill as many people in 35 days as UK police have killed in 35 years.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 18,198

    Wasn’t there some stat that American police kill people on most days?

    There were 360 American police killed last year, so it's only fair.

    The Second Amendment at work, folks. Live by the sword and all that...
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • womackwomack Posts: 475
    I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.

    A real role model!
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,568
    Now I've seen it all... is the loathsome Janet Daley turning woke?


  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,773
    A lot of things that were politically correct/leftiebollix/woke just become accepted norms. Some don't.
  • morstarmorstar Posts: 4,663
    womack said:

    I feel sure there will be a statue of G. Floyd going up soon.

    A real role model!

    I guess if you don’t want to martyr minor criminals, you shouldn’t murder them for minor offences.
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