Froome thinking about leaving Ineos

orraloon

rick_chasey said:

orraloon said:

I've just watched the finish of the 2000 Hautacam stage (The Move podcast / YouTube) when Pantani loses LA's wheel and just switches out. The mental change is visible in his style on the bike. So yes Pantani on a good day, but...

No-one looks good on a bad day, apart from Quintana, and then he gets heat for not trying.

Fair. It was coincidental that I had watched the finale of that Hautacam stage immediately before reading the OP re Pantani. I'd been struck by just how visible was the change in his attitude, almost like he'd given up. Bad day for e.g. Dumoulin, Froome, Thomas I think would still see them trying. Anyways, we all know MP had issues.

rick_chasey

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

pblakeney

That's the difference between success and failure in competitive sport.
A generalisation, not personal.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

Same here, when I used to race in my late teens and early 20s I was ideally built for it and probably fit enough to have done way better but I would talk myself into thinking I couldn't hold the pace any longer. I still find myself doing it when running as well. On the other hand, I've cycled and run with people I'm sure are less fit than me but just seem to have the ability to ignore their body telling them to stop. I see people at the end of even a Parkrun throwing up from the effort, that's something I've only ever come close to on two or three occasions.

No_Ta_Doctor

rick_chasey said:

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

.

Aside from the lack of mentality, training and physical talent, I'm sure you'd make a fine racer.

ddraver

I'm the same if I'm on my own or it's for personal...erm...'glory'

If it's for a team though or if I may let someone down I'll turn myself inside out (kinda what did for my knee...)

It's just the way people are wired.

pblakeney

Here's what got me busting a gut to get to the top of a hill, group riding.
The realisation that everyone was recovering while waiting on the last man and then immediately head off meant that I didn't want to be the last man with no recovery.

50x11

rick_chasey said:

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

See I'm the opposite, I struggle to motivate myself to get out on the bike, but when I do (well at least this year) I'm so motivated to beat PB's and I am close to a couple of local KOM's on Strava. But for the life of me, I just can't make myself get out and ride half the time. I think when group rides start I will be better.

The mental strength of elite athletes and especially cyclists is something I don't think 98% of the population will ever appreciate. Like someone said above that is what will always separate them from us.

bobmcstuff

I've an absolutely crippling aversion to getting dropped, which has led to me doing some things on Zwift in the last few months which I wouldn't have thought possible beforehand. Used to do similar on club runs but there its a bit more difficult as there are some guys who are just unbelievably fast. Although even at my fattest/most unfit I will always turn myself out not to be the last person to the top.

Since lockdown I've also had my longest ever uninterrupted training run, which has had great results - My FTP is now above what I thought I might ever just about have in me, just through consistency really, so now I am thinking maybe my potential is even higher. Also kind of regretful since I'm 32 and even though I was never going to be anything remotely special it still makes me wonder where I might be now if I had trained like that in my 20s.

But at some point doing the hard intervals gets really difficult psychologically. I'm struggling to motivate for the VO2 workouts now as they're just relentlessly painful. Sometimes I look at the workout plan and wonder what kind of nightmare this is, which I assume is not something that regularly happens to Chris Froome.

pblakeney

I believe the appropriate quote is "It doesn't get easier, just faster."

david37

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

Same here, when I used to race in my late teens and early 20s I was ideally built for it and probably fit enough to have done way better but I would talk myself into thinking I couldn't hold the pace any longer. I still find myself doing it when running as well. On the other hand, I've cycled and run with people I'm sure are less fit than me but just seem to have the ability to ignore their body telling them to stop. I see people at the end of even a Parkrun throwing up from the effort, that's something I've only ever come close to on two or three occasions.

Early saturday morning, theyre probably chucking up because of Friday night.

Pross

david37 said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

Same here, when I used to race in my late teens and early 20s I was ideally built for it and probably fit enough to have done way better but I would talk myself into thinking I couldn't hold the pace any longer. I still find myself doing it when running as well. On the other hand, I've cycled and run with people I'm sure are less fit than me but just seem to have the ability to ignore their body telling them to stop. I see people at the end of even a Parkrun throwing up from the effort, that's something I've only ever come close to on two or three occasions.

Early saturday morning, theyre probably chucking up because of Friday night.

That was certainly the case with one friend I agreed to pace for her first sub 30 run. She literally staggered to the start smelling of booze but to be fair she stuck with me and didn't throw up until after she finished. I wouldn't have made it out of bed in that state let alone be able to run a PB!

bobmcstuff

david37 said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Have a lot of sympathy for riders who mentally crack.

I am very weak and fickle mentally when on the bike and it is probably the biggest barrier I have beyond time on the bike and (absent) natural talent in terms of how well or badly I do.

If i'm really honest with myself, I can probably count on two hands the amount of rides over 40km where I have genuinely got the most out of my body.

These guys like Froome who just nail it every ride, even if they're in a massive hole, hemorrhaging time, and get the most out of themselves, day in, day out - I just can't relate to that.

Same here, when I used to race in my late teens and early 20s I was ideally built for it and probably fit enough to have done way better but I would talk myself into thinking I couldn't hold the pace any longer. I still find myself doing it when running as well. On the other hand, I've cycled and run with people I'm sure are less fit than me but just seem to have the ability to ignore their body telling them to stop. I see people at the end of even a Parkrun throwing up from the effort, that's something I've only ever come close to on two or three occasions.

Early saturday morning, theyre probably chucking up because of Friday night.

Yeah I mean that's what I spent quite a bit of my 20s doing.

I was 88kg in Jan 2014, which is borderline obese for my height. 70 kilos today

pblakeney

Couldn't think where better to post this little diversion but I have to say that I like the new Ineos orange kit. That's 2/2 of something they've got right.

m.r.m.

It's only for training.

DeVlaeminck

bobmcstuff said:

I've an absolutely crippling aversion to Also kind of regretful since I'm 32 and even though I was never going to be anything remotely special it still makes me wonder where I might be now if I had trained like that in my 20s.

Keep at it, 32 is easily young enough to fulfil your potential unless your potential was to be a pro.

jimmythecuckoo

I don't know quite as to why, but that orange kit is really annoying me.

They look like they are having some fun though.

pblakeney

m.r.m. said:

It's only for training.

Still.....
It’s like getting the official Once jersey in yellow when the more publicised version was the TdF pink.

blazing_saddles

Matt White thinks Froome might get sidelined for the Tour.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/i-wouldnt-be-surprised-if-team-ineos-left-chris-froome-out-of-the-tour-de-france-says-matt-white-460045

robnewcastle

blazing_saddles said:

Matt White thinks Froome might get sidelined for the Tour.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/i-wouldnt-be-surprised-if-team-ineos-left-chris-froome-out-of-the-tour-de-france-says-matt-white-460045

I wouldn’t be at all surprised but then it all depends on what is form is. I think he’s going to have to be absolutely tip top to make the tea, genuine chance of winning.

Bernal, Thomas plus say Amador, Sivakov, Van Baarle, Kawasaki et al is certainly more “straightforward”. Be interesting to see what happens though

webboo

If it’s about someone going to make the tea. Shirley Ben Swift would be a better choice as he’s from Yorkshire.

RichN95.

On his podcast Thomas was still talking about three leaders at the Tour

Harry182

I still think Froome's been given guarantees that he'll be on the '20 Ineos Tour team. Otherwise, we'd be seeing him riding it for ISUN.

Why else would Ineos want pay Froome's substantial half-year's salary to have him sit on the bench and why else would Froome not have transferred mid-season to ISUN and a guaranteed Tour spot?

pblakeney

Why?
Hypothetically Ineos don't need him but don't want him against them either.

Harry182

'20 ISUN + Froome would be no worry to Ineos. 2.5M (or whatever 1/2 Froome's annual salary is) is a lot of cash.

pblakeney

Jim Ratcliffe - 17.1 billion USD (2020)

RichN95.

You have to remember who Ineos are up against - a team created in their own image, Jumbo, who have stronger time triallists. The tactics that have served them well in the past are unlikely to cut work. They can't bank on Bernal defending a small lead in the TT. And he'll find it as hard to gain time on Jumbo as others have against Sky in the past.

Ineos need Froome to cause some chaos. Last year without him they struggled to dispatch a classics rider, Pinot almost beat them and their nearest rival was Jumbo's no.3 rider.

Harry182

My point is that the speculation/debate regarding whether Ineos will or won't select Froome is moot as I reckon they've already guaranteed him a ride.

1/2 Froome's salary may not be significant to Ratcliffe but is a significant percentage of Ineos annual budget.

david37

well it all adds a bit more interest to the spectacle. Bring it on

pblakeney

Harry182 said:

My point is that the speculation/debate regarding whether Ineos will or won't select Froome is moot as I reckon they've already guaranteed him a ride.

1/2 Froome's salary may not be significant to Ratcliffe but is a significant percentage of Ineos annual budget.

Not quite sure what your point is other than some sportsmen earn more than others.
Might be the reason his contract is not being extended if you want to go down that road.