The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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My wife's company have had an official email today along the lines of getting the staff ID so that they can continue to get back and forward to work so it sounds like a more stringent lockdown is in the offing. She read it as being within the next couple of weeks but her boss seemed to think it could come into force as early as tonight.briantrumpet said:Three observations from today's permitted Devonian exercise ride (and keeping away from people strolling around town without a care in the world):
- surprised to see a caravan & camping site open & quite well used. WTF do they think "essential travel only" means?
- still lots of people going around in cars, not looking like they are on an 'essential journey': in France they are stopping people at roadblocks, checking they've got their declarations on them, and are issuing fines
- wondering how three blokes (without facemasks) I saw in the cab of the dustbin lorry are feeling about being shoved in the cab together for what is essential work
Can't help feeling that the next level of lockdown is inevitable as the figures ramp up inexorably, and this shîtshow is going to be longer than it could have been.0 -
I haven't named you and I don't recall having much if any interaction with you. I have commented previously on the Brexit threads that there are a set of opinions held by some of the more prolific posters that seem to have become accepted wisdom on here and if ever they are challenged they are met with sneers and name calling. I'm not going to get into individuals but the Brexit thread was filled top to bottom with sneers about closet racists, and thick leave voters and this thread is in danger of going the same way. Malcolm is a small business owner whose services I have used. He is a brilliant wheel builder and faces the ruination of his livelihood and years of hard work and investment. He's entitled to.express views contrary to the consensus without being belittled, particularly when he feels (as do I) that the government's course of action will do more harm than good. We are now in a situation where all we can do is wait and see but being able to say we told you so won't be of any comfort to anyone.morstar said:
Seeing as I’m mentioned by name. Care to expand on the accusation against me?shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.0 -
I try not to react in the way Coopster does but I understand exactly why he does. I also think you completely misrepresent his position in the economic consequences of Brexit but I'll leave him to argue the point himself.surrey_commuter said:
Coopster is trolling and not in an amusing or productive way. Let me give you two examples of his contradictions.shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.
His written English is very good and in no way correlates with his moronic inflammatory content.
On Brexit he literally gives no sh1ts about the economy yet on C19 it is all about the economy and let hundreds of thousands of people die because they are old.0 -
Meanwhile, another point of view from the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-115850884640 -
Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.0
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On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
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He is happy to take a 0.5% reduction in economic growth for the foreseeable future yet is happy to let a few hundred thousand people die to potentially alleviate the worst of a short term recession. That is not misrepresenting him and is a totally contradictory viewpoint.shortfall said:
I try not to react in the way Coopster does but I understand exactly why he does. I also think you completely misrepresent his position in the economic consequences of Brexit but I'll leave him to argue the point himself.surrey_commuter said:
Coopster is trolling and not in an amusing or productive way. Let me give you two examples of his contradictions.shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.
His written English is very good and in no way correlates with his moronic inflammatory content.
On Brexit he literally gives no sh1ts about the economy yet on C19 it is all about the economy and let hundreds of thousands of people die because they are old.0 -
By all means, experts should be questionable and held to account. That doesn't mean your opinion is as valid as an expert'sshortfall said:
On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
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Where is the advantage in the Government and / or experts making out that the virus is worse than it is? I really can't see a single benefit to them in doing so and it's not as though it is one country and everyone is disagreeing, all countries (other than maybe those in charge in the US) are saying the same.shortfall said:
On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
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You said he gave no sh1ts about the economy, now you're quibbling over a 0.5% loss of growth versus what is potentially an absolutely colossal hit to the economy that might take generations to recover from.surrey_commuter said:
He is happy to take a 0.5% reduction in economic growth for the foreseeable future yet is happy to let a few hundred thousand people die to potentially alleviate the worst of a short term recession. That is not misrepresenting him and is a totally contradictory viewpoint.shortfall said:
I try not to react in the way Coopster does but I understand exactly why he does. I also think you completely misrepresent his position in the economic consequences of Brexit but I'll leave him to argue the point himself.surrey_commuter said:
Coopster is trolling and not in an amusing or productive way. Let me give you two examples of his contradictions.shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.
His written English is very good and in no way correlates with his moronic inflammatory content.
On Brexit he literally gives no sh1ts about the economy yet on C19 it is all about the economy and let hundreds of thousands of people die because they are old.0 -
I never said my opinion was. However Rick seems to dismiss good journalism that brings together strands of dissenting opinion from rival experts. That's great if you enjoy being a mushroom. Welcome to 1984. You now need permission to.leave your own house for fear of being fined by the police and snitched on by your neighbour and dissenting journalists and opinions are to be ignored.Jeremy.89 said:
By all means, experts should be questionable and held to account. That doesn't mean your opinion is as valid as an expert'sshortfall said:
On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
This blessed plot
This earth
This realm
This England0 -
Nope. I made the 1984 connection last week and was informed that it was incorrect.shortfall said:
I never said my opinion was. However Rick seems to dismiss good journalism that brings together strands of dissenting opinion from rival experts. That's great if you enjoy being a mushroom. Welcome to 1984. You now need permission to.leave your own house for fear of being fined by the police and snitched on by your neighbour and dissenting journalists and opinions are to be ignored.Jeremy.89 said:
By all means, experts should be questionable and held to account. That doesn't mean your opinion is as valid as an expert'sshortfall said:
On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
This blessed plot
This earth
This realm
This England
Oh, and experts were deemed unnecessary 3 years ago.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Of course he is entitled to, but he's not the only one on here running a business. Some of us have to worry about employees as well. From what I can see the economic impact is unavoidable. Never mind the old and infirm, between a sixth and a fifth of the infected working population will be hospitalised by this even if they recover. Many more will be off work for a couple of weeks at least. That alone is disruptive enough to cause economic problems.shortfall said:
I haven't named you and I don't recall having much if any interaction with you. I have commented previously on the Brexit threads that there are a set of opinions held by some of the more prolific posters that seem to have become accepted wisdom on here and if ever they are challenged they are met with sneers and name calling. I'm not going to get into individuals but the Brexit thread was filled top to bottom with sneers about closet racists, and thick leave voters and this thread is in danger of going the same way. Malcolm is a small business owner whose services I have used. He is a brilliant wheel builder and faces the ruination of his livelihood and years of hard work and investment. He's entitled to.express views contrary to the consensus without being belittled, particularly when he feels (as do I) that the government's course of action will do more harm than good. We are now in a situation where all we can do is wait and see but being able to say we told you so won't be of any comfort to anyone.morstar said:
Seeing as I’m mentioned by name. Care to expand on the accusation against me?shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If true, good news in the medium term, but the acute effects on health services are happening, and you can agree need the curve to be flattened?shortfall said:Meanwhile, another point of view from the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-115850884640 -
The conclusion is the same as the article in the corriere - test, test test0
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Actually it's probably nearer to Brave New World because judging by what I'm seeing, people are positively welcoming their enslavement.pblakeney said:
Nope. I made the 1984 connection last week and was informed that it was incorrect.shortfall said:
I never said my opinion was. However Rick seems to dismiss good journalism that brings together strands of dissenting opinion from rival experts. That's great if you enjoy being a mushroom. Welcome to 1984. You now need permission to.leave your own house for fear of being fined by the police and snitched on by your neighbour and dissenting journalists and opinions are to be ignored.Jeremy.89 said:
By all means, experts should be questionable and held to account. That doesn't mean your opinion is as valid as an expert'sshortfall said:
On the contrary. I don't want to live in a world where we're spoonfed our opinions by experts who can't be challenged. But then I don't like living in the police state we are now either. Give it time and you'll come to agree with me.rick_chasey said:Funnily enough I don’t think journo columnist are necessarily best place to be discussing the lethality of a virus, particularly during a pandemic.
This blessed plot
This earth
This realm
This England
Oh, and experts were deemed unnecessary 3 years ago.0 -
You genuinely have my sympathies, however I disagree about the economic impact. I believe we could have avoided a lockdown and turning into a police state and still mitigated the number of deaths. We will never know now so it's moot, but we will soon discover how disastrous this will be for the economy and whether it was a price worth paying.rjsterry said:
Of course he is entitled to, but he's not the only one on here running a business. Some of us have to worry about employees as well. From what I can see the economic impact is unavoidable. Never mind the old and infirm, between a sixth and a fifth of the working population will be hospitalised by this even if they recover. Many more will be off work for a couple of weeks at least. That alone is disruptive enough to cause economic problems.shortfall said:
I haven't named you and I don't recall having much if any interaction with you. I have commented previously on the Brexit threads that there are a set of opinions held by some of the more prolific posters that seem to have become accepted wisdom on here and if ever they are challenged they are met with sneers and name calling. I'm not going to get into individuals but the Brexit thread was filled top to bottom with sneers about closet racists, and thick leave voters and this thread is in danger of going the same way. Malcolm is a small business owner whose services I have used. He is a brilliant wheel builder and faces the ruination of his livelihood and years of hard work and investment. He's entitled to.express views contrary to the consensus without being belittled, particularly when he feels (as do I) that the government's course of action will do more harm than good. We are now in a situation where all we can do is wait and see but being able to say we told you so won't be of any comfort to anyone.morstar said:
Seeing as I’m mentioned by name. Care to expand on the accusation against me?shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.0 -
Enslavement? Now who's being hysterical?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNLiUN0l7ws
Worth a watch from a smart PC guy would predicted a pandemic.0 -
Before that we will discover if the NHS gets overwhelmed with the current strategy.shortfall said:
You genuinely have my sympathies, however I disagree about the economic impact. I believe we could have avoided a lockdown and turning into a police state and still mitigated the number of deaths. We will never know now so it's moot, but we will soon discover how disastrous this will be for the economy and whether it was a price worth paying.rjsterry said:
Of course he is entitled to, but he's not the only one on here running a business. Some of us have to worry about employees as well. From what I can see the economic impact is unavoidable. Never mind the old and infirm, between a sixth and a fifth of the working population will be hospitalised by this even if they recover. Many more will be off work for a couple of weeks at least. That alone is disruptive enough to cause economic problems.shortfall said:
I haven't named you and I don't recall having much if any interaction with you. I have commented previously on the Brexit threads that there are a set of opinions held by some of the more prolific posters that seem to have become accepted wisdom on here and if ever they are challenged they are met with sneers and name calling. I'm not going to get into individuals but the Brexit thread was filled top to bottom with sneers about closet racists, and thick leave voters and this thread is in danger of going the same way. Malcolm is a small business owner whose services I have used. He is a brilliant wheel builder and faces the ruination of his livelihood and years of hard work and investment. He's entitled to.express views contrary to the consensus without being belittled, particularly when he feels (as do I) that the government's course of action will do more harm than good. We are now in a situation where all we can do is wait and see but being able to say we told you so won't be of any comfort to anyone.morstar said:
Seeing as I’m mentioned by name. Care to expand on the accusation against me?shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.0 -
No point in a police state without a lockdown, or vice versa.shortfall said:
I believe we could have avoided a lockdown and turning into a police state and still mitigated the number of deaths.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Nothing hysterical from me, just reporting the reality. We now live in a country where you can't leave your own house without specific reason or good cause or drive for a walk in the countryside. If you do then you risk a fine of worse and if the police don't catch you with a roadblock or a drone then your neighbour will inform on you. Do you really think the state will easily hand back these freedoms once they've got used to ordering us around instead of be ing our servants? History would suggest otherwise.rjsterry said:Enslavement? Now who's being hysterical?
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I'd take that as a "me".shortfall said:
Nothing hysterical from me, just reporting the reality. We now live in a country where you can't leave your own house without specific reason or good cause or drive for a walk in the countryside. If you do then you risk a fine of worse and if the police don't catch you with a roadblock or a drone then your neighbour will inform on you. Do you really think the state will easily hand back these freedoms once they've got used to ordering us around instead of be ing our servants? History would suggest otherwise.rjsterry said:Enslavement? Now who's being hysterical?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Perhaps if they told us the excess deaths figures for each week/month we might have a better idea. Also if they distinguished between those who died WITH coronavirus rather FROM it would help to guide policy.surrey_commuter said:
Before that we will discover if the NHS gets overwhelmed with the current strategy.shortfall said:
You genuinely have my sympathies, however I disagree about the economic impact. I believe we could have avoided a lockdown and turning into a police state and still mitigated the number of deaths. We will never know now so it's moot, but we will soon discover how disastrous this will be for the economy and whether it was a price worth paying.rjsterry said:
Of course he is entitled to, but he's not the only one on here running a business. Some of us have to worry about employees as well. From what I can see the economic impact is unavoidable. Never mind the old and infirm, between a sixth and a fifth of the working population will be hospitalised by this even if they recover. Many more will be off work for a couple of weeks at least. That alone is disruptive enough to cause economic problems.shortfall said:
I haven't named you and I don't recall having much if any interaction with you. I have commented previously on the Brexit threads that there are a set of opinions held by some of the more prolific posters that seem to have become accepted wisdom on here and if ever they are challenged they are met with sneers and name calling. I'm not going to get into individuals but the Brexit thread was filled top to bottom with sneers about closet racists, and thick leave voters and this thread is in danger of going the same way. Malcolm is a small business owner whose services I have used. He is a brilliant wheel builder and faces the ruination of his livelihood and years of hard work and investment. He's entitled to.express views contrary to the consensus without being belittled, particularly when he feels (as do I) that the government's course of action will do more harm than good. We are now in a situation where all we can do is wait and see but being able to say we told you so won't be of any comfort to anyone.morstar said:
Seeing as I’m mentioned by name. Care to expand on the accusation against me?shortfall said:
Malcolm you're not alone. I share most of your views as expressed in this thread and have also noticed a certain intolerance from some. It manifested itself similarly in the Brexit threads. The forum needs a diverse set of opinions, including Coopster.thecycleclinic said:Ah your calling me names now.
Morstar as I have said we will see if the current approach works as planned and how much normality is restored when the restriction are relaxed. My worry is we wont be able to jump start the economy again easily. Why would a business hire or invest if a shutdown is expected. Cash hoarding is more likely.
However we are were we are and I am going along with it. Thinking about the future should never be a crime.
Sadly your suggesting it is.
I think I am done with this forum now. It's simply not worth expressing one's opinion anymore. We dont live in a society were free exchange of views is valued anymore.1 -
I agree it would help NHS cope but I don't agree with the lockdown and assault on civil liberties as a means to achieve it.kingstongraham said:
If true, good news in the medium term, but the acute effects on health services are happening, and you can agree need the curve to be flattened?shortfall said:Meanwhile, another point of view from the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-115850884640 -
Vive la revolution.shortfall said:
Nothing hysterical from me, just reporting the reality. We now live in a country where you can't leave your own house without specific reason or good cause or drive for a walk in the countryside. If you do then you risk a fine of worse and if the police don't catch you with a roadblock or a drone then your neighbour will inform on you. Do you really think the state will easily hand back these freedoms once they've got used to ordering us around instead of be ing our servants? History would suggest otherwise.rjsterry said:Enslavement? Now who's being hysterical?
The "working" class numpties who voted for Blojo and his band of sycophantic a-holes in December ain't gonna take the 'no you can't go to the pub / bookies / neighbour's barbie' for more than a few weeks. And the UK does not have police infrastructure of some of our neighbouring friendly 🤔 countries, thanks in part to an ongoing programme of governmental costcutting through the past decade. Can't blame Jeremy for that.0 -
Btw why can't you go out on your bike, like wot I have been doing this week? Suppose until that gets banned as well. Then we can all spend all our days and nights whinging on t'internet.0
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briantrumpet said:kingstongraham said:
Worth remembering. Today's UK deaths up by 115.kingstongraham said:
Timing apparently.kingstonian said:
Wonder what the change in approach actually meanstailwindhome said:
Sounds like they are priming for today's to be a high number.
Still now a bit under Italy at the same stage, next few days could get scary if it follows that path.
Part of that is (apparently) changing the timing for collection of data (sorry if that sounds brutal in the context), so yesterday's figure was under-reported, and today's over-reported.
Oh well, that didn't age well. Another 181 deaths today. The only comfort for me is that there were none in Devon. London's not looking at all good.0
