The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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On the face of it, this transparency is good.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Have decided that if I was a betting man I’d put some money on Cummings writing those.rick_chasey said:
Govt seriously on the back foot.tailwindhome said:Government rebuttal of the Sunday Times article
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Given what happened with Brexit this is a very odd look.
Not certain but that’d be my guess.
Weird blog format, basically the formal equivalent of “someone is wrong on the internet” efc0 -
I did tell you it was happening on time. Do you believe me now?surrey_commuter said:
Well as a regular critic of these tossers I tip my hat to them that they have built a website that can cope with hundreds of thousands of businesses making their application and that they ca; process them for the month end.tailwindhome said:72 hrs for anyone who needs the furlough money to pay their staff to get their claim in.
One can only imagine the testing that has taken place to ascertain the capacity that is needed to get everybody on and off the site in 48 hours and despatch the money (virtually) by return"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The history of these types of infections our lifetime is that they never escaped the region where they started, or did not have a massive effect if they did. The only exception is this one.focuszing723 said:
What were other Western Countries doing at this time, who managed to escape Sar/Mers?surrey_commuter said:
If only they had access to a TV or knew people in Asia they would not have needed hindsight.focuszing723 said:I'm sure most governments would have thought it would end akin to Sar/Mers towards the beginning of the year. Hindsight > Hindsight > Hindsight.
When China locked down Wuhan and built a hospital in a week it was obvious things were so out of control that it could not be swept under the carpet.
You are just plain wrong with your cries of hindsight.
The Govt chose to let it run and go for herd immunity, a ballsy decision but they shat themselves and tried to contain it. Having done no prep they have been playing catch up ever since and have continued to make bad decision after bad decision"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The economic response has been on the whole good. On paper it’s great. Execution has not been perfect but what can you do.Stevo_666 said:
I did tell you it was happening on time. Do you believe me now?surrey_commuter said:
Well as a regular critic of these tossers I tip my hat to them that they have built a website that can cope with hundreds of thousands of businesses making their application and that they ca; process them for the month end.tailwindhome said:72 hrs for anyone who needs the furlough money to pay their staff to get their claim in.
One can only imagine the testing that has taken place to ascertain the capacity that is needed to get everybody on and off the site in 48 hours and despatch the money (virtually) by return
Really disappointed to hear Rishi being the cheerleader to open lockdown early and “run hot” mind...0 -
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What. A. Rebuttal.rick_chasey said:
Have decided that if I was a betting man I’d put some money on Cummings writing those.rick_chasey said:
Govt seriously on the back foot.tailwindhome said:Government rebuttal of the Sunday Times article
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Given what happened with Brexit this is a very odd look.
Not certain but that’d be my guess.
Weird blog format, basically the formal equivalent of “someone is wrong on the internet” efc
Is worth reading these things. Full of sh!t half the time.0 -
And this one:rick_chasey said:
What. A. Rebuttal.rick_chasey said:
Have decided that if I was a betting man I’d put some money on Cummings writing those.rick_chasey said:
Govt seriously on the back foot.tailwindhome said:Government rebuttal of the Sunday Times article
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Given what happened with Brexit this is a very odd look.
Not certain but that’d be my guess.
Weird blog format, basically the formal equivalent of “someone is wrong on the internet” efc
Is worth reading these things. Full of sh!t half the time.
Claim - The last rehearsal for a pandemic was a 2016 exercise codenamed Cygnus, which predicted the health service would collapse and highlighted a long list of shortcomings — including, presciently, a lack of PPE and intensive care ventilators.
Response - The Government has been extremely proactive in implementing lessons learnt around pandemic preparedness, including from Exercise Cygnus. This includes being ready with legislative proposals that could rapidly be tailored to what became the Coronavirus Act, plans to strengthen excess death planning, planning for recruitment and deployment of retired staff and volunteers, and guidance for stakeholders and sectors across government.0 -
Sounds plausible. Really should just take the loss on PPE and get on with fixing the problem.rick_chasey said:
Have decided that if I was a betting man I’d put some money on Cummings writing those.rick_chasey said:
Govt seriously on the back foot.tailwindhome said:Government rebuttal of the Sunday Times article
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Given what happened with Brexit this is a very odd look.
Not certain but that’d be my guess.
Weird blog format, basically the formal equivalent of “someone is wrong on the internet” efc0 -
There is a nice story about international cooperation that could have been written there.tailwindhome said:
Really not a fan of criticizing the government for sending PPE to other countries.TheBigBean said:Interesting that China has sent many multiples of the PPE that the UK sent.
Their house was on fire and we lent them a hose.
Seen the same criticism in NI of Randox, apparently they shouldn't be exporting the tests they manufacture as Invest NI have given them public money in the form of grants.
No time for it.0 -
Given the US culture wars has spread into “lockdown wars” im fairly confident that this episode will hasten the demise of the US as the main superpower.
It is deeply dysfunctional.0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The US is built upon the individual looking after themselves. To people who fall through the cracks,there is (even more of) an underlying and unspoken "well its your own fault" attitude in that society than there is here. There is also a massive army of invisible people who keep the country running at minimum wage. Proportionally these people do not vote, have virtually no employment rights and no voice. "Mainstream" US society doesn't care and doesn't notice. So the US will come out of this crisis in the most economically beneficial way - economically beneficial for the people who already earn and spend money, and who vote. To those people a higher death rate in people who they didn't notice in the first place is an economic cost that society will probably tolerate. It may even allow the US to get ahead.0
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Also shows that people didn't bother to look further and realise that China have returned the favour several times over.tailwindhome said:
Really not a fan of criticizing the government for sending PPE to other countries.TheBigBean said:Interesting that China has sent many multiples of the PPE that the UK sent.
Their house was on fire and we lent them a hose.
Seen the same criticism in NI of Randox, apparently they shouldn't be exporting the tests they manufacture as Invest NI have given them public money in the form of grants.
No time for it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Probably the same people who always talk of charity beginning at home and can't understand why other countries don't send aid to us when we have flooding when we send millions to developing countries when they have a natural disaster. Morons as they're technically know.rjsterry said:
Also shows that people didn't bother to look further and realise that China have returned the favour several times over.tailwindhome said:
Really not a fan of criticizing the government for sending PPE to other countries.TheBigBean said:Interesting that China has sent many multiples of the PPE that the UK sent.
Their house was on fire and we lent them a hose.
Seen the same criticism in NI of Randox, apparently they shouldn't be exporting the tests they manufacture as Invest NI have given them public money in the form of grants.
No time for it.0 -
At the time of each, we prepared as though they were going to hit us. I think it's possibly true that the results of those outbreaks had lulled us into a false sense of security.Stevo_666 said:
The history of these types of infections our lifetime is that they never escaped the region where they started, or did not have a massive effect if they did. The only exception is this one.focuszing723 said:
What were other Western Countries doing at this time, who managed to escape Sar/Mers?surrey_commuter said:
If only they had access to a TV or knew people in Asia they would not have needed hindsight.focuszing723 said:I'm sure most governments would have thought it would end akin to Sar/Mers towards the beginning of the year. Hindsight > Hindsight > Hindsight.
When China locked down Wuhan and built a hospital in a week it was obvious things were so out of control that it could not be swept under the carpet.
You are just plain wrong with your cries of hindsight.
The Govt chose to let it run and go for herd immunity, a ballsy decision but they shat themselves and tried to contain it. Having done no prep they have been playing catch up ever since and have continued to make bad decision after bad decision1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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It's comical looking back at various things written in the media, but this gem from Simon Jenkins stood out at the time as completely reckless and lacking in any form research beyond a bit pub chat. Published on 6th March.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-hype-crisis-predictions-sars-swine-flu-panicsWhen hysteria is rife, we might try some history. In 1997 we were told that bird flu could kill millions worldwide. Thankfully, it did not. In 1999 European Union scientists warned that BSE “could kill 500,000 people”. In total, 177 Britons died of vCJD. The first Sars outbreak of 2003 was reported by as having “a 25% chance of killings tens of millions” and being “worse than Aids”. In 2006, another bout of bird flu was declared “the first pandemic of the 21st century”, the scares in 2003, 2004 and 2005 having failed to meet their body counts.
Then, in 2009, pigs replaced birds. The BBC announced that swine flu “could really explode”. The chief medical officer, Liam Donaldson, declared that “65,000 could die”. He spent £560m on a Tamiflu and Relenza stockpile, which soon deteriorated. The Council of Europe’s health committee chairman described the hyping of the 2009 pandemic as “one of the great medical scandals of the century”. These scenarios could have all come to pass of course – but they represent the direr end of the scale of predictions. Should public life really be conducted on a worst-case basis?
Coronavirus: the week explained - sign up for our email newsletter
Read more
Both Hancock and Britain’s chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, have struggled to contain the alarm. The government’s action plan pointed out that the virus is highly contagious, but the “great majority” of those who develop symptoms will experience only a “mild-to-moderate but self-limiting illness”. Every medical expert I have heard on the subject is reasonable and calm.0 -
Hannan takes a similar line https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/02/daniel-hannan-alarmism-doom-mongering-panic-and-the-coronavirus-we-are-nowhere-near-a-1919-style-catastrophe.htmlTheBigBean said:It's comical looking back at various things written in the media, but this gem from Simon Jenkins stood out at the time as completely reckless and lacking in any form research beyond a bit pub chat. Published on 6th March.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-hype-crisis-predictions-sars-swine-flu-panicsWhen hysteria is rife, we might try some history. In 1997 we were told that bird flu could kill millions worldwide. Thankfully, it did not. In 1999 European Union scientists warned that BSE “could kill 500,000 people”. In total, 177 Britons died of vCJD. The first Sars outbreak of 2003 was reported by as having “a 25% chance of killings tens of millions” and being “worse than Aids”. In 2006, another bout of bird flu was declared “the first pandemic of the 21st century”, the scares in 2003, 2004 and 2005 having failed to meet their body counts.
Then, in 2009, pigs replaced birds. The BBC announced that swine flu “could really explode”. The chief medical officer, Liam Donaldson, declared that “65,000 could die”. He spent £560m on a Tamiflu and Relenza stockpile, which soon deteriorated. The Council of Europe’s health committee chairman described the hyping of the 2009 pandemic as “one of the great medical scandals of the century”. These scenarios could have all come to pass of course – but they represent the direr end of the scale of predictions. Should public life really be conducted on a worst-case basis?
Coronavirus: the week explained - sign up for our email newsletter
Read more
Both Hancock and Britain’s chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, have struggled to contain the alarm. The government’s action plan pointed out that the virus is highly contagious, but the “great majority” of those who develop symptoms will experience only a “mild-to-moderate but self-limiting illness”. Every medical expert I have heard on the subject is reasonable and calm.The Sunday Telegraph’s lead was “Millions told to stay at home if coronavirus spreads”.
Well, maybe. But I’m going to stick my neck out here. You’re unlikely to be killed by the coronavirus. Yes, the disease is unpleasant; and, yes, in some circumstances, it can cause complications that lead to fatalities. But it is unlikely to be as lethal as the more common forms of influenza that we take for granted, let alone as lethal as, say, stroke or heart disease. We are nowhere near a 1919-style global catastrophe.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY
This is an excellent 30 minute interview, if only our press were able to interview this well, with Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government(he hired the current Swedish chief epidemiologist, Dr. Anders Tegnell), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and advisor to the director general of the WHO
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Well the Furlough claim website appears to be running smoothly.
Perhaps Rick will post something positive about promises being met.0 -
Read further up - already ahead of yaDorset_Boy said:Well the Furlough claim website appears to be running smoothly.
Perhaps Rick will post something positive about promises being met.
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Dorset_Boy said:
Well the Furlough claim website appears to be running smoothly.
Perhaps Rick will post something positive about promises being met.
That's good to hear. Quite impressive how this has been put in place so swiftly and bang on time.0 -
Re death rates in men vs women and on age.
It is indeed 2 male deaths for everyone 1 female death and every seven years your chances of dying from corona (if you get it) doubles.
When care home stats come out that might change a bit (as they have more women than men in them as they tend to live longer).0 -
Overall I think it was pretty good - although in some respects there was probably not a lot of choice.rick_chasey said:
The economic response has been on the whole good. On paper it’s great. Execution has not been perfect but what can you do.Stevo_666 said:
I did tell you it was happening on time. Do you believe me now?surrey_commuter said:
Well as a regular critic of these tossers I tip my hat to them that they have built a website that can cope with hundreds of thousands of businesses making their application and that they ca; process them for the month end.tailwindhome said:72 hrs for anyone who needs the furlough money to pay their staff to get their claim in.
One can only imagine the testing that has taken place to ascertain the capacity that is needed to get everybody on and off the site in 48 hours and despatch the money (virtually) by return
Really disappointed to hear Rishi being the cheerleader to open lockdown early and “run hot” mind..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Thanks for posting. It is an interesting interview. I was surprised that he is believes in the iceberg max theory though and that seems to contradict some of his earlier points i.e. if 50% of the UK have already had it, then when lockdown is eased, the virus is unlikely to pick up.coopster_the_1st said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY
This is an excellent 30 minute interview, if only our press were able to interview this well, with Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, advisor to the Swedish Government(he hired the current Swedish chief epidemiologist, Dr. Anders Tegnell), the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and advisor to the director general of the WHO
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I think that could well have been a factor. We all remember SARS, bird flu and Swine flu being reported but they never really impacted us as such - not that I can recall.rjsterry said:
At the time of each, we prepared as though they were going to hit us. I think it's possibly true that the results of those outbreaks had lulled us into a false sense of security.Stevo_666 said:
The history of these types of infections our lifetime is that they never escaped the region where they started, or did not have a massive effect if they did. The only exception is this one.focuszing723 said:
What were other Western Countries doing at this time, who managed to escape Sar/Mers?surrey_commuter said:
If only they had access to a TV or knew people in Asia they would not have needed hindsight.focuszing723 said:I'm sure most governments would have thought it would end akin to Sar/Mers towards the beginning of the year. Hindsight > Hindsight > Hindsight.
When China locked down Wuhan and built a hospital in a week it was obvious things were so out of control that it could not be swept under the carpet.
You are just plain wrong with your cries of hindsight.
The Govt chose to let it run and go for herd immunity, a ballsy decision but they shat themselves and tried to contain it. Having done no prep they have been playing catch up ever since and have continued to make bad decision after bad decision"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Have been some criticisms of the 80% pay figure - regressive, more expensive to implement etc.Stevo_666 said:
Overall I think it was pretty good - although in some respects there was probably not a lot of choice.rick_chasey said:
The economic response has been on the whole good. On paper it’s great. Execution has not been perfect but what can you do.Stevo_666 said:
I did tell you it was happening on time. Do you believe me now?surrey_commuter said:
Well as a regular critic of these tossers I tip my hat to them that they have built a website that can cope with hundreds of thousands of businesses making their application and that they ca; process them for the month end.tailwindhome said:72 hrs for anyone who needs the furlough money to pay their staff to get their claim in.
One can only imagine the testing that has taken place to ascertain the capacity that is needed to get everybody on and off the site in 48 hours and despatch the money (virtually) by return
Really disappointed to hear Rishi being the cheerleader to open lockdown early and “run hot” mind...
Some arguments that a basic income would have been more efficient in the circumstances, but i don't know where I fall on that.0 -
Simon Jenkins in reactionary nonsense shocker! His Brexit predictions were similarly accurate.TheBigBean said:It's comical looking back at various things written in the media, but this gem from Simon Jenkins stood out at the time as completely reckless and lacking in any form research beyond a bit pub chat. Published on 6th March.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-hype-crisis-predictions-sars-swine-flu-panicsWhen hysteria is rife, we might try some history. In 1997 we were told that bird flu could kill millions worldwide. Thankfully, it did not. In 1999 European Union scientists warned that BSE “could kill 500,000 people”. In total, 177 Britons died of vCJD. The first Sars outbreak of 2003 was reported by as having “a 25% chance of killings tens of millions” and being “worse than Aids”. In 2006, another bout of bird flu was declared “the first pandemic of the 21st century”, the scares in 2003, 2004 and 2005 having failed to meet their body counts.
Then, in 2009, pigs replaced birds. The BBC announced that swine flu “could really explode”. The chief medical officer, Liam Donaldson, declared that “65,000 could die”. He spent £560m on a Tamiflu and Relenza stockpile, which soon deteriorated. The Council of Europe’s health committee chairman described the hyping of the 2009 pandemic as “one of the great medical scandals of the century”. These scenarios could have all come to pass of course – but they represent the direr end of the scale of predictions. Should public life really be conducted on a worst-case basis?
Coronavirus: the week explained - sign up for our email newsletter
Read more
Both Hancock and Britain’s chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, have struggled to contain the alarm. The government’s action plan pointed out that the virus is highly contagious, but the “great majority” of those who develop symptoms will experience only a “mild-to-moderate but self-limiting illness”. Every medical expert I have heard on the subject is reasonable and calm.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It'll never be perfect given the lack of time to plan properly - more important was they got something workable in place quickly enough.rick_chasey said:
Have been some criticisms of the 80% pay figure - regressive, more expensive to implement etc.Stevo_666 said:
Overall I think it was pretty good - although in some respects there was probably not a lot of choice.rick_chasey said:
The economic response has been on the whole good. On paper it’s great. Execution has not been perfect but what can you do.Stevo_666 said:
I did tell you it was happening on time. Do you believe me now?surrey_commuter said:
Well as a regular critic of these tossers I tip my hat to them that they have built a website that can cope with hundreds of thousands of businesses making their application and that they ca; process them for the month end.tailwindhome said:72 hrs for anyone who needs the furlough money to pay their staff to get their claim in.
One can only imagine the testing that has taken place to ascertain the capacity that is needed to get everybody on and off the site in 48 hours and despatch the money (virtually) by return
Really disappointed to hear Rishi being the cheerleader to open lockdown early and “run hot” mind...
Some arguments that a basic income would have been more efficient in the circumstances, but i don't know where I fall on that.
Which reminds me - must make sure our payroll people have got their furlough claims lodged today."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
