The big Coronavirus thread

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

Presumably one correlates to a large degree with the other. It's not my argument, just my interpretation of what I understood Coopster to be saying. As I said, he's worded it in his own inimitable way and appears to like to treat death as a dispassionate number.

Once ICU was overwhelmed I would expect there to be a correlation but why would there be before that?

surrey_commuter

A bit worrying that the Bank Holiday death toll only fell to 917.

This weekend was meant to be where it levelled off

Pross

Because there's a link with those who get I'll enough to require ICU treatment and those that don't survive maybe? I'm sure I saw stats on the percentage that require ICU treatment who subsequently died, I don't think that has a link to there not being enough resources or at least I haven't heard that suggested. I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your point but if, as I think you meant, we aim to keep ICU admissions to, say, 80% of capacity and the stats suggest 50% of them will die then surely it would be the same as setting a number on 'acceptable' deaths albeit in a more subtle way?

Stevo_666

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

Oh behave. Pleasantly surprise maybe, but not disappoint.

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

Stevo_666

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

orraloon

Or he is he one of dumb / dumber Matt Hancock's targets who is using too much PPE? These politicos really are plonkers. Mind you £10k additional 'expenses' richer plonkers. We really are all in this together.

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

Of course.
No one said it wasn't.

Hopefully everyone in the NHS and social care sector will be able to say the same, sooner rather than later.

focuszing723

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

That's good to hear Stevo. It must be one hell of a task procuring all the equipment and then distributing it.

Pross

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

Of course.
No one said it wasn't.

Hopefully everyone in the NHS and social care sector will be able to say the same, sooner rather than later.

I think there's an element of those not at the very pointy end thinking they should be getting the same level of equipment as those they see working on the Covid wards.

As an example my wife had to deal with a staff member yesterday demanding more PPE. They work in the care sector and have been given their supplies but the work they do is in small homes operating supported living schemes, they don't do any real medical work and none of the service users are currently I'll. They basically don't need anything other than the usual gloves and aprons for personal care though the Welsh Government have also supplied surgical masks. I think some of the staff are expecting to get the visors and full masks they are seeing on TV.

Pross

Just for balance, my cousin who is a GP and whose husband is a Registrar in an ICU is up in arms about Hancock's comments about PPE being overused.

mrfpb

Pross said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

Of course.
No one said it wasn't.

Hopefully everyone in the NHS and social care sector will be able to say the same, sooner rather than later.

I think there's an element of those not at the very pointy end thinking they should be getting the same level of equipment as those they see working on the Covid wards.

As an example my wife had to deal with a staff member yesterday demanding more PPE. They work in the care sector and have been given their supplies but the work they do is in small homes operating supported living schemes, they don't do any real medical work and none of the service users are currently I'll. They basically don't need anything other than the usual gloves and aprons for personal care though the Welsh Government have also supplied surgical masks. I think some of the staff are expecting to get the visors and full masks they are seeing on TV.

If you work in a single care location where everyone living there is on lockdown, fine. I f you are a Disctrict Nurse (who are now doing way more house calls), Dom Care Worker or Paramedic, you need more than a flimsy plastic apron and paper mask. You don't know if the person you are providing intimate personal care to has it or not.

pangolin

Pross said:

Just for balance, my cousin who is a GP and whose husband is a Registrar in an ICU is up in arms about Hancock's comments about PPE being overused.

To add some more anecdata, my sister in law is a GP and they had no masks a couple of weeks ago then last week had them but were rationed to 1 per day. My wife works in a non frontline covid role in a hospital that still sees the public (though less than before) and they had nothing until a couple of days ago. The trust emailed them all saying great news we have PPE in stock, but no one actually in the hospital knew where it was.

Must be a logistical nightmare trying to work out which staff actually need how much, then get it to them all, while balancing limited stock. But it does seem like they could be doing it better.

tailwindhome

Good news on the testing front.

Priti Patel:

"Three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests carried out across the UK"

Pross

mrfpb said:

Pross said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

Of course.
No one said it wasn't.

Hopefully everyone in the NHS and social care sector will be able to say the same, sooner rather than later.

I think there's an element of those not at the very pointy end thinking they should be getting the same level of equipment as those they see working on the Covid wards.

As an example my wife had to deal with a staff member yesterday demanding more PPE. They work in the care sector and have been given their supplies but the work they do is in small homes operating supported living schemes, they don't do any real medical work and none of the service users are currently I'll. They basically don't need anything other than the usual gloves and aprons for personal care though the Welsh Government have also supplied surgical masks. I think some of the staff are expecting to get the visors and full masks they are seeing on TV.

If you work in a single care location where everyone living there is on lockdown, fine. I f you are a Disctrict Nurse (who are now doing way more house calls), Dom Care Worker or Paramedic, you need more than a flimsy plastic apron and paper mask. You don't know if the person you are providing intimate personal care to has it or not.

Well exactly. My point was basically the same but from the other side. Some don't need as much but seem to think they have an entitlement to the same levels they are seeing higher risk carers and medics using In the case I mentioned the member of staff was insinuating they wouldn't work as they didn't have PPE despite the provision being what the Welsh Government care people deemed appropriate for that role. The more protective equipment should be saved for higher risk roles as you say.

surrey_commuter

Lying bastards - somebody should tell them that SteveOs mate said everything is fine

https://twitter.com/MarkerJParker/status/1249007688920576001/photo/1

kingstongraham

tailwindhome said:

Good news on the testing front.

Priti Patel:

"Three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests carried out across the UK"

I heard a bit of the press conference today (but not that bit) - they really need to keep her away. She inspires no confidence that she is telling you the truth, or even trying to answer any question.

kingstongraham

.

Stevo_666

I see most of the usual suspects have replied. Sorry to disappoint

pblakeney

tailwindhome said:

Good news on the testing front.

Priti Patel:

"Three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests carried out across the UK"

Can someone please translate that for me? It makes no sense whatsoever.

pblakeney

mrfpb said:

Pross said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

You'd be suprised if the high dependency unit didn't have PPE.

The task is enormous though.

Ireland has secured 13 years worth (at normal usage) and they don't think it's anywhere near enough.

I'm just going on what the doctor says. If they have enough to do the job, that is good isn't it?

Of course.
No one said it wasn't.

Hopefully everyone in the NHS and social care sector will be able to say the same, sooner rather than later.

I think there's an element of those not at the very pointy end thinking they should be getting the same level of equipment as those they see working on the Covid wards.

As an example my wife had to deal with a staff member yesterday demanding more PPE. They work in the care sector and have been given their supplies but the work they do is in small homes operating supported living schemes, they don't do any real medical work and none of the service users are currently I'll. They basically don't need anything other than the usual gloves and aprons for personal care though the Welsh Government have also supplied surgical masks. I think some of the staff are expecting to get the visors and full masks they are seeing on TV.

If you work in a single care location where everyone living there is on lockdown, fine. I f you are a Disctrict Nurse (who are now doing way more house calls), Dom Care Worker or Paramedic, you need more than a flimsy plastic apron and paper mask. You don't know if the person you are providing intimate personal care to has it or not.

My wife is a district nurse and all they get is as described. Trouble being that more would probably be overkill and not welcome on a practical basis.
Flip side, 2 patients in her area reported symptoms, were cleared by a GP and died of C-19 within 24 hours.
They do not know what they are going into on a day to day basis.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

Update from my mate on the NHS frontline - he's due back at work tomorrow. This time he'll be on the high dependency C19 unit which apparently needs the maximum PPE. He says they have enough PPE, which might disappoint some people.

I've gently prodded my medic friends, but they seem to be keeping schtum.

orraloon

Priti Vacant, the Diane Abbott des nos jours.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

Because there's a link with those who get I'll enough to require ICU treatment and those that don't survive maybe? I'm sure I saw stats on the percentage that require ICU treatment who subsequently died, I don't think that has a link to there not being enough resources or at least I haven't heard that suggested. I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your point but if, as I think you meant, we aim to keep ICU admissions to, say, 80% of capacity and the stats suggest 50% of them will die then surely it would be the same as setting a number on 'acceptable' deaths albeit in a more subtle way?

I once had an argument who was arguing that a football club you could judge how fast a prospective player could run by measuring how high they could do a standing jump. This is because it requires the same fast twitch muscle. He could not understand my point that they could just time him running over a set distance.

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

I see most of the usual suspects have replied. Sorry to disappoint

No one is disappointed that your mate has PPE.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Germany delivering a bunch of ventilators today.

What to us or taking delivery themselves?

To the UK

Well done Germany. Good to see some cooperation like this.

Pity the U.K. is a charity case but that’s by-the-by

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

A bit worrying that the Bank Holiday death toll only fell to 917.

This weekend was meant to be where it levelled off

This was what I was getting at when I was banging on about the curve steepness at the beginning of last week.

It takes longer and more effort to bend that curve around. In the meantime the bodies keep piling up.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

I see most of the usual suspects have replied. Sorry to disappoint

I guess you haven’t nosied at The Lancet in the past month?

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

tailwindhome said:

Good news on the testing front.

Priti Patel:

"Three hundred thousand and thirty four, nine hundred and seventy four thousand tests carried out across the UK"

I heard a bit of the press conference today (but not that bit) - they really need to keep her away. She inspires no confidence that she is telling you the truth, or even trying to answer any question.

Beggars belief these people get elected, let alone a cabinet job after they get sacked from their previous one for breaking the rules.