Things you have recently learnt

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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,489
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

    Absolutely mad.

    You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.
    £47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

    Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.
    From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

    So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.
    I'm out of touch, but it sounds ok for a small school where houses are cheap.
    I'm not arguing you point but it highlights the housing cost issue. Housing costs rise with affordability. London is expensive cos wages are higher cos housing is expensive.
    I’d assume London wages for teachers etc are higher to compensate
    Exactly.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Still low for quite an important role
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    rick_chasey said:

    Still low for quite an important role

    I think perhaps a career in City recruitment has given you a slightly skewed view of salaries.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Still low for quite an important role

    I think perhaps a career in City recruitment has given you a slightly skewed view of salaries.
    Maybe. $54k is the average US wage and €40k in France - seems low.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    Median income is still below £40k IIRC. There's plenty of data around. I've never really understood why people think that because you can earn £X in one industry, a similar level of seniority in a completely different industry should have a comparable salary. That's not how employers decide what pay they will offer.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited November 2022
    rjsterry said:

    Median income is still below £40k IIRC. There's plenty of data around. I've never really understood why people think that because you can earn £X in one industry, a similar level of seniority in a completely different industry should have a comparable salary. That's not how employers decide what pay they will offer.

    Lack of pay transparency accounts for a lot of problems in the labour market.

    I’m of the view important roles ought to pay well else you don’t get enough good people doing it.

    High wages aren’t everything obviously (hell I’ve turned down some crazy offers because the firms sounded awful) but those wages do exist and they do attract good people.

    It’s quite frankly mad I earn more than a secondary headteacher, no?
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,380
    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,380
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Still low for quite an important role

    I think perhaps a career in City recruitment has given you a slightly skewed view of salaries.
    Maybe. $54k is the average US wage and €40k in France - seems low.
    Average or median in the US? I'd take US figures with a pinch of salt anyway, because they have such a large unmeasured economy.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,380
    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    Rick wrong? I wouldn’t have thought so!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    Rick wrong? I wouldn’t have thought so!
    I appreciate the err support 😉😉
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:
    50kg
    _
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,269
    rick_chasey said:

    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:

    50kg
    That's a mathematical potato. In the real world, potatoes are ~80% water.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    If your partner earned a similar amount and you were out in the sticks you would be living the life of Riley.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    If your partner earned a similar amount and you were out in the sticks you would be living the life of Riley.
    Meh, you shouldn’t be struggling but you’re not going to be loaded.

    Consider student loan for one or both on salary over 25? 27? K.

    Saving for a deposit, paying rent, high utilities. Have to run a car as no practical public transport.

    Bear in mind that house prices will be high from all the second homes or covid London escapees.

    The few places where housing is genuinely cheap are pretty hideous.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,269
    Move to Liverpool. The 'world's biggest' Hooters is opening. Wot's not to like?

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/worlds-biggest-hooters-open-liverpool-25609232

    🤔
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,811
    edited November 2022
    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    Median income is still below £40k IIRC. There's plenty of data around. I've never really understood why people think that because you can earn £X in one industry, a similar level of seniority in a completely different industry should have a comparable salary. That's not how employers decide what pay they will offer.


    Lack of pay transparency accounts for a lot of problems in the labour market.

    I’m of the view important roles ought to pay well else you don’t get enough good people doing it.

    High wages aren’t everything obviously (hell I’ve turned down some crazy offers because the firms sounded awful) but those wages do exist and they do attract good people.

    It’s quite frankly mad I earn more than a secondary headteacher, no?
    No, I don't think it is. There's a lot of money washing around in your industry and, bluntly, not in education. For comparison, here's some salary trends in my profession.


    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    If your partner earned a similar amount and you were out in the sticks you would be living the life of Riley.
    But your definition of the sticks includes the most expensive areas outside central London.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,501
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Still low for quite an important role

    I think perhaps a career in City recruitment has given you a slightly skewed view of salaries.
    Maybe. $54k is the average US wage and €40k in France - seems low.
    Average or median in the US? I'd take US figures with a pinch of salt anyway, because they have such a large unmeasured economy.
    When we were comparing the incomes of the top earners against the bottom earners (during my degree) the statisticians would ignore the top 10% and the bottom 10% because these brackets would skew the figures.
    ...and therein lies a problem with stats: that parameters like this are slightly arbitrary.
    When you take a more pragmatic top 5% and bottom 5% out of the stats, which is more reasonable, then you get a much more pronounced picture of the differences.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    morstar said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    We are talking minimum for primary school here, right? Twice the average salary doesn't seem too bad.

    What's minimum for secondary school? That's where it really becomes a punishing role.
    Rick was saying £40k for his friend (I assume that’s a very small primary) which isn’t twice the average. It isn’t far above the average and would be about what a mid grade person with 5-10 years experience would expect in my sector. It does beg the question why anyone would accept the job at that level of pay though, I’m pretty sure my sister was on mid £30k as a primary classroom teacher before she went part time.
    But wasn't RC wrong by about £8k plus pension?

    Managing a small rural primary school probably is a fairly demanding job but pretty good gig overall I'd have thought. Preferable to burning out trying to run an inner London secondary, for maybe 50% more take home pay.
    If your partner earned a similar amount and you were out in the sticks you would be living the life of Riley.
    Meh, you shouldn’t be struggling but you’re not going to be loaded.

    Consider student loan for one or both on salary over 25? 27? K.

    Saving for a deposit, paying rent, high utilities. Have to run a car as no practical public transport.

    Bear in mind that house prices will be high from all the second homes or covid London escapees.

    The few places where housing is genuinely cheap are pretty hideous.
    In my version of the sticks a four bedroom house costs £250k
    The guy in London on the same salary is paying off student loans
    the guy in London has to save for a bigger deposit whilst paying higher rent
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,568
    orraloon said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:

    50kg
    That's a mathematical potato. In the real world, potatoes are ~80% water.
    Right, can someone show me the "workings out" on this? Driving me mad!
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • Munsford0
    Munsford0 Posts: 680
    laurentian said:

    orraloon said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:

    50kg
    That's a mathematical potato. In the real world, potatoes are ~80% water.
    Right, can someone show me the "workings out" on this? Driving me mad!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_paradox
  • Munsford0
    Munsford0 Posts: 680
    Impending insanity had compelled me to google it already
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    laurentian said:

    orraloon said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:

    50kg
    That's a mathematical potato. In the real world, potatoes are ~80% water.
    Right, can someone show me the "workings out" on this? Driving me mad!
    1kg of "dry" out of 100kg is 1% (1 vs 99). The absolute dry quantity does not change.

    1kg out of 50kg is 2% (1 dry vs 49 water).

    For example, 1kg out of 75kg is 1.33%, so there is still 98.66% water .

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    Glad someone else asked as I was worried about showing my ignorance!
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,660
    Pross said:

    Pretty sure head teacher was one of the many jobs John80 could do better than those who actually do it so on that basis it should pay less than being an engineer.

    You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher let alone a head teacher. It was bad enough dealing with other people’s kids for an hour a week when I used to do a bit of coaching. I’d be sacked or jailed if I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

    Daughter's primary had an open morning last week and I sat in on one of her (year 1) lessons.

    Would not do that job for twice the pay, I don't know how they have the patience.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • Munsford0
    Munsford0 Posts: 680
    Post-redundancy / pre state pension I'm a DT Technician in a secondary school (Y7-11) No salary on earth could persuade me to become a teacher.

    Our 30 something son who is a (very good apparently) teacher is now questioning staying in the profession.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,568
    Munsford0 said:

    laurentian said:

    orraloon said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Also learned this conundrum:

    You have 100kg of potatoes, which are 99% water by weight. You let them dehydrate until they're 98% water. How much do they weigh now?"

    Answer:

    50kg
    That's a mathematical potato. In the real world, potatoes are ~80% water.
    Right, can someone show me the "workings out" on this? Driving me mad!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_paradox
    Cheers! This is going to be a long argument down the pub!
    Wilier Izoard XP

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