Things you have recently learnt

veronese68

Ben6899 said:

carbonclem said:

Lots of chat amongst the classic car community regarding fuel life as standard unleaded fuel (E10) has much shorter life than premium (E5). The ethanol content absorbs water more quickly and thus degenerates faster. Advice is to use a stabiliser for storage, use premium fuel or drain the system.
I reckon you've got four or five months without any drama tbh.

You want to be using an additive anyway, running unleaded in a "classic" engine, assuming it was designed to run on 4-Star.

I don't remember if those additives (designed to "soften" the fuel and protect valve seats) also stabilise fuel? @veronese68 or @pinno will know - I'm long out of the classic car game.

I knew more about this when they first came in but have forgotten most of it. Ethanol wasn't an issue as it was only the lack of lead that people were worried about then. I'm trying to recall stuff from about 25 years ago so don't quote me, there are 3 lead replacement options, Potassium, Sodium and Manganese I think it was. Potassium was best for preventing valve seat recession which was the main concern. But, as with lead, it would poison catalytic convertors. The other two weren't as effective, but took hold more as they didn't kill catalysts. They all tend to have a fuel stabilising additive in with them now which helps with storage. There is a way of removing the ethanol from the fuel, the guy that runs Classic Oils was trying to sell it to us some years back.
The lad's Mk1 GTi gets whatever additive I have kicking about as I'm not sure which is best for protecting an early fuel injection system from ethanol. I should probably find out.
Ethanol also causes problems with rubber seals, we try to make sure everything that comes into contact with petrol is made out of Viton or similar, have done for quite a few years now. All suppliers should be doing this now.

veronese68

carbonclem said:

Ben6899 said:

carbonclem said:

Lots of chat amongst the classic car community regarding fuel life as standard unleaded fuel (E10) has much shorter life than premium (E5). The ethanol content absorbs water more quickly and thus degenerates faster. Advice is to use a stabiliser for storage, use premium fuel or drain the system.
I reckon you've got four or five months without any drama tbh.

You want to be using an additive anyway, running unleaded in a "classic" engine, assuming it was designed to run on 4-Star.

I don't remember if those additives (designed to "soften" the fuel and protect valve seats) also stabilise fuel? @veronese68 or @pinno will know - I'm long out of the classic car game.

My interest is solely in aircooled VW, so they have hardened valve seats and are good to go on, well, any old fuel tbh!

Yes, all engines with aluminium cylinder heads will have valve seat inserts and most of them should be hard enough to cope with unleaded. Any rubber in the fuel system is the only thing to be aware of, but as I mention all suppliers should have been making sure they are using ethanol proof rubber in fuel systems for some time now.

Ben6899

I love the knowledge 'round these parts.

First.Aspect

I am offended by the notion of "softening" petrol. It smacks of bearded men called Nigel talking earnestly in complete ignorance about something.

Do Nigels have any actual data to support the notion that adding 5% more ethanol to what is fundamentally still a highly hydrophobic mixture, makes petrol significantly more hygroscopic?

Is it as simple as ethanol is miscible with water so it stands to reason?

pinno

carbonclem said:

Ben6899 said:

carbonclem said:

Lots of chat amongst the classic car community regarding fuel life as standard unleaded fuel (E10) has much shorter life than premium (E5). The ethanol content absorbs water more quickly and thus degenerates faster. Advice is to use a stabiliser for storage, use premium fuel or drain the system.
I reckon you've got four or five months without any drama tbh.

You want to be using an additive anyway, running unleaded in a "classic" engine, assuming it was designed to run on 4-Star.

I don't remember if those additives (designed to "soften" the fuel and protect valve seats) also stabilise fuel? @veronese68 or @pinno will know - I'm long out of the classic car game.

My interest is solely in aircooled VW, so they have hardened valve seats and are good to go on, well, any old fuel tbh!

Famously run on banana ethanol in South America.

pinno

I had a fire in my 944 which was caused by a failed O ring on the fuel injection system. (I had the car back up and running in 6 weeks - it's always good practice to carry a fire extinguisher on classic cars).
The failed O ring was quite possibly O rings that weren't resistant. Though, this degradation would have taken years.
There was a spate of O rings failing in the late 90's/early 00's in Porsche's. That's how long the problem took to manifest itself after the phasing out of leaded petrol.

Lead had another purpose and that was anti-knock: anti-pre ignition. That is, fuel igniting prematurely in the combustion chamber. Leaded petrol had an octane rating of 88-92 RON so many classic cars had to be re-tuned because 'modern' unleaded contains an oxygenate (octane) additive and is higher RON rating than of the leaded petrol.
The other side effect of the removal of lead and increased octane levels is much higher combustion temperatures. This can cause older cars to over heat, especially given ageing water pumps. Add tighter emission standards which often involves making the engine leaner = more heat.
Something you may want to consider if running an air cooled V dub.

@veronese68 : There really isn't a lot to do in a k-jetronic fuel injection system to convert to unleaded.

This will help:

https://www.bmfi.com.au/files/interjectKJetronic.pdf

https://www.kmipetrolinjection.co.uk

Parts from VW Heritage. They are pricey those boys but they are good (and you get a free air freshener with every order ).

veronese68

pinno said:

@veronese68 : There really isn't a lot to do in a k-jetronic fuel injection system to convert to unleaded.

Indeed, we'll just run it with an additive until something needs replacing. KMI do all our Lucas fuel injection stuff, they are very good for that.

pinno

veronese68 said:

pinno said:

@veronese68 : There really isn't a lot to do in a k-jetronic fuel injection system to convert to unleaded.

Indeed, we'll just run it with an additive until something needs replacing. KMI do all our Lucas fuel injection stuff, they are very good for that.

I can only think of the O rings on the FPR, the damper and the injectors that would need to be replaced.
The rest would have been done due to it's age anyway like internals in pumps etc.

carbonclem

The engine in my bus is a bit modified, with twin Dellorto carbs so is tuned away from standard anyway. I've recently changed, again, all the fuel hoses for modern ethanol resistant lines so I'm well prepared. I went through the years when were were sold 'unleaded' conversions kits and little bags of lead pellets to put in fuel tanks to compensate ... all of which turned out to be magic beans. As posted above, the South Americans run them on biofuel so its not a running issue, just a storage issue as the vast majority of UK cars/vans are stored over the winter these days. I've just packed mine away and it wont be used again till March at the earliest.

Ben6899

Would love to see a photo of this van, @carbonclem

@First.Aspect you should pop along to an Owners Club meetup to discuss hydrophobic and hygroscopic mixtures with Nigel. Let me know when you do, and I'll pop along and document the chat*

*you can't tell Nigel anything and I suspect he'd have similar issue with your good self

carbonclem

Ben6899 said:

Would love to see a photo of this van, @carbonclem

This last weekend in Cheddar

Ben6899

carbonclem said:

This last weekend in Cheddar

Love it!

pinno

Ben6899 said:

carbonclem said:

This last weekend in Cheddar

Love it!

Yeah, I had a 74 Devonshire conversion bay which I restored.
(and sold, sniff).

First.Aspect

.

Ben6899 said:

Would love to see a photo of this van, @carbonclem

@First.Aspect you should pop along to an Owners Club meetup to discuss hydrophobic and hygroscopic mixtures with Nigel. Let me know when you do, and I'll pop along and document the chat*

*you can't tell Nigel anything and I suspect he'd have similar issue with your good self

Dereks might know the answer, I suppose. He's probably got a can of E10 and been systematically weighing it.

veronese68

Ben6899 said:

@First.Aspect you should pop along to an Owners Club meetup to discuss hydrophobic and hygroscopic mixtures with Nigel. Let me know when you do, and I'll pop along and document the chat*

*you can't tell Nigel anything and I suspect he'd have similar issue with your good self

Having been in the trade for over 30 years I avoid things like that like the plague, there's a reason I stopped dealing with retail customers and only dealt with the trade, I eventually had enough of that and now avoid customers for all I'm worth.

rick_chasey

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

lesfirth

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

I was staggered to learn from my school governor daughter in law that each primary school has to decide how it is going to find the cash for the increased cost of school heating.I naively thought things like that were sorted by the local authority.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

Yeah mate just got made one on that or near enough.

There are plenty of grads who earn more than that in their first year.

Pross

Is it a particularly small primary school or something? That seems ridiculously low.

webboo

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

Yeah mate just got made one on that or near enough.

There are plenty of grads who earn more than that in their first year.

A band 7 nurse gets less than that at the bottom of the pay scale. Yet they can be managing a team of twenty plus with a multi million pound budget. Even worse they are managing staff who are paid more than they earn( Clinical Psychologists and Psychiatrists).

TheBigBean

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

Is it a particularly small primary school or something? That seems ridiculously low.

I mean it’s always a bit awkward taking about pay with your mate and I didn’t want to rub in how low it was.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

Yeah that sounds like the figures I saw. Why would anyone take on the stress and responsibility for that let alone £40k? I suppose at least if it was one of those tiny rural schools the Head still gets to teach a bit, I’ve never understood why any teacher decides to become a Head.

rick_chasey

Her 😉

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.

I'm out of touch, but it sounds ok for a small school where houses are cheap.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.

I'm out of touch, but it sounds ok for a small school where houses are cheap.

I'm not arguing you point but it highlights the housing cost issue. Housing costs rise with affordability. London is expensive cos wages are higher cos housing is expensive.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.

I'm out of touch, but it sounds ok for a small school where houses are cheap.

I'm not arguing you point but it highlights the housing cost issue. Housing costs rise with affordability. London is expensive cos wages are higher cos housing is expensive.

I’d assume London wages for teachers etc are higher to compensate

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Some primary headteachers earn as little as £40k.

Absolutely mad.

You sure about that? The scales I’ve seen were about £47k starting and that was back in 2020.

£47,735 is the lowest in England outside London. £117,197 is the highest. According to google.

Presumably it is possible to be head of a school with only four classes.

From past discussions didn’t we decide the pension was worth another 25%.

So that puts him on £60k which is not bad for a part time job 9 months of the year.

I'm out of touch, but it sounds ok for a small school where houses are cheap.

I'm not arguing you point but it highlights the housing cost issue. Housing costs rise with affordability. London is expensive cos wages are higher cos housing is expensive.

I’d assume London wages for teachers etc are higher to compensate

London yes, but not by that much and no other region in England.

There seems to be Fringe, Outer London and Inner London. The min headteacher salary jumps to £58,501 for Inner London.