Should Mark Cavendish swallow his pride and retire?

Pross

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

For whose benefit would his retirement be? Yours because you don't like it when he doesn't win?

As long as he wants to carry on riding and someone is willing to give him a contract, good luck to him.

And your point about Viviani implying he was past it which is why he is moving down a grade by going to Cofidis - he is 30, and in THIS YEAR's Tour, he had four stages in the top 3 including a stage win. Stage wins in the 2018 Giro, 2018 Vuelta and 2019 TdF. Think he's doing OK actually, and more a statement by Cofidis that they want to go up a level.

Its not about wether I dont like it when he doesn't win, although yes, I don't like it because I do want to see him win. It's more about has his time come and should he retire given he's obviously not the Cav of old. Of course I want to see him win, which part of my post did you dream up in your mind where I want to see him lose? Strange.

At no point did I say Vivianni was past it either, I said that maybe he's recognising hes hitting that point in his career where managing his expectations is a reality now, therefore hes going to a slightly lesser team. The fact being though that Vivianni is nearly 5 years younger than Cav so if he's accepting a new direction shouldn't Cav be? The difference also is that Cav (as I pointed out in my OP) still talks like hes the Cav of old, like he's still doing it and winning races but quite clearly, he isn't.

You could argue, that Dimension Data not taking him to the Tour was their was of nudging him a bit to open his eyes up without shouting in his face 'Cav, you're past it son'.

You still seem to have completely missed the point that he picked up an illness and that he may regain form if / when he gets over it.

Do you think people should suggest you give up your job and take early retirement because you aren't achieving anything of note?

webboo

Pross wrote:

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

For whose benefit would his retirement be? Yours because you don't like it when he doesn't win?

As long as he wants to carry on riding and someone is willing to give him a contract, good luck to him.

And your point about Viviani implying he was past it which is why he is moving down a grade by going to Cofidis - he is 30, and in THIS YEAR's Tour, he had four stages in the top 3 including a stage win. Stage wins in the 2018 Giro, 2018 Vuelta and 2019 TdF. Think he's doing OK actually, and more a statement by Cofidis that they want to go up a level.

Its not about wether I dont like it when he doesn't win, although yes, I don't like it because I do want to see him win. It's more about has his time come and should he retire given he's obviously not the Cav of old. Of course I want to see him win, which part of my post did you dream up in your mind where I want to see him lose? Strange.

At no point did I say Vivianni was past it either, I said that maybe he's recognising hes hitting that point in his career where managing his expectations is a reality now, therefore hes going to a slightly lesser team. The fact being though that Vivianni is nearly 5 years younger than Cav so if he's accepting a new direction shouldn't Cav be? The difference also is that Cav (as I pointed out in my OP) still talks like hes the Cav of old, like he's still doing it and winning races but quite clearly, he isn't.

You could argue, that Dimension Data not taking him to the Tour was their was of nudging him a bit to open his eyes up without shouting in his face 'Cav, you're past it son'.

You still seem to have completely missed the point that he picked up an illness and that he may regain form if / when he gets over it.

Do you think people should suggest you give up your job and take early retirement because you aren't achieving anything of note?

You have never had this suggested to yourself. Were you perhaps self employed.
For some of of us it was implied on a daily basis

Pross

Webboo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

For whose benefit would his retirement be? Yours because you don't like it when he doesn't win?

As long as he wants to carry on riding and someone is willing to give him a contract, good luck to him.

And your point about Viviani implying he was past it which is why he is moving down a grade by going to Cofidis - he is 30, and in THIS YEAR's Tour, he had four stages in the top 3 including a stage win. Stage wins in the 2018 Giro, 2018 Vuelta and 2019 TdF. Think he's doing OK actually, and more a statement by Cofidis that they want to go up a level.

Its not about wether I dont like it when he doesn't win, although yes, I don't like it because I do want to see him win. It's more about has his time come and should he retire given he's obviously not the Cav of old. Of course I want to see him win, which part of my post did you dream up in your mind where I want to see him lose? Strange.

At no point did I say Vivianni was past it either, I said that maybe he's recognising hes hitting that point in his career where managing his expectations is a reality now, therefore hes going to a slightly lesser team. The fact being though that Vivianni is nearly 5 years younger than Cav so if he's accepting a new direction shouldn't Cav be? The difference also is that Cav (as I pointed out in my OP) still talks like hes the Cav of old, like he's still doing it and winning races but quite clearly, he isn't.

You could argue, that Dimension Data not taking him to the Tour was their was of nudging him a bit to open his eyes up without shouting in his face 'Cav, you're past it son'.

You still seem to have completely missed the point that he picked up an illness and that he may regain form if / when he gets over it.

Do you think people should suggest you give up your job and take early retirement because you aren't achieving anything of note?

You have never had this suggested to yourself. Were you perhaps self employed.
For some of of us it was implied on a daily basis

Yeah, I meant random people who have no actual affiliation to his employer

mididoctors

Give it another year. Not hopeful but worth a shot.

kingstongraham

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

Its not about wether I dont like it when he doesn't win, although yes, I don't like it because I do want to see him win.

If he's not riding, he's definitely not going to win.

greasedscotsman

Does he have a contract for next year? Thought he was on a one year deal with Dimension Data.

specialgueststar

Difficult for a sprinter . You probably think at the beginning of the season there are x ( where x is not that many) amount of stages at WT that are for the sprinters. You have to already discount days for crashes, breaks succeeding, mechanicals and there are 8 world class sprinters plus many more who can have a go in the right circumstances . Depending on what type of rider you are you need at least 2 if not 4 riders dedicated to your final 200 m death or glory.

You seem to have lost a bit of top end and there are three new shit hot sprinters in town

You cant transform into a one day specialist and riding against PCT and CT teams in minor races is beneath you.

You have been hit with Glandular Epstein Fever Fever and all the psychological issues that brings.

Then the internet is queuing up with the scythe

and you have unfinished business ( in your head)

above_the_cows

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

but I've got to say he's become a bit of a sad joke these past few years

I would pay good money to see you say that to his face.

kingstongraham

Above The Cows wrote:

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

but I've got to say he's become a bit of a sad joke these past few years

I would pay good money to see you say that to his face.

Be like that time in the Tour of Britain

photonic69

Marcel Kittel suffered from an undisclosed virus back in 2015, but by the looks of it he never fully recovered enough to be fully competative and hence decided to retire this year from pro level cycling. Very sad as I liked him as a good sprinter.

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

thegreatdivide

The multimillionaire Mark Cavendish will be fine when the time comes to retire.

RichN95.

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

bobmcstuff

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

Wouldn't Cavendish technically not be allowed to do it as a former ballroom dancing champion?

Although they have been pretty lax with letting ringers on (so I'm told )

rich_pcp

I kind of get why people are divided over Cav's future but he just loves cycling.
I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Greaves playing for Barnet atb the end of his career because he loved playing football.
I think Cav is cut from the same jib.
Many said it was detracting from his glory years but if Cav likes to keep on trying, good for him. You're a long time retired.

specialgueststar

rich pcp wrote:

I kind of get why people are divided over Cav's future but he just loves cycling.
I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Greaves playing for Barnet atb the end of his career because he loved playing football.
I think Cav is cut from the same jib.
Many said it was detracting from his glory years but if Cav likes to keep on trying, good for him. You're a long time retired.

CaV might like to ' keep trying' but his sponsor s might see it different. They won't give him 300k (?) plus to ' have a go '.

timothyw

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

rich pcp wrote:

I kind of get why people are divided over Cav's future but he just loves cycling.
I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Greaves playing for Barnet atb the end of his career because he loved playing football.
I think Cav is cut from the same jib.
Many said it was detracting from his glory years but if Cav likes to keep on trying, good for him. You're a long time retired.

CaV might like to ' keep trying' but his sponsor s might see it different. They won't give him 300k (?) plus to ' have a go '.

You say that but getting publicity for their brand, even if it is over speculation that Cav should retire, might make it worthwhile to them.

Certainly we see plenty of doomed attacks in the average race that appear to mostly be about riders getting their sponsors on tv.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

He wouldn't be allowed to enter.

rick_chasey

bobmcstuff wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

Wouldn't Cavendish technically not be allowed to do it as a former ballroom dancing champion?

Although they have been pretty lax with letting ringers on (so I'm told )

The rules are around previous *ballroom* dancing specifically. Hence having contemporary/hip hop dancers as contestants.

Ultimately pretty much every actor will have done some form of dance training as part of their performing arts education, hence needed to be a bit tolerant of the label 'prior experience'.

FocusZing

There's a Lego championships!

dish_dash

Rick Chasey wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

Wouldn't Cavendish technically not be allowed to do it as a former ballroom dancing champion?

Although they have been pretty lax with letting ringers on (so I'm told )

The rules are around previous *ballroom* dancing specifically. Hence having contemporary/hip hop dancers as contestants.

Ultimately pretty much every actor will have done some form of dance training as part of their performing arts education, hence needed to be a bit tolerant of the label 'prior experience'.

Didn't Vince Cable have extensive ballroom dancing experience before doing Strictly?

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

He wouldn't be allowed to enter.

He was something like Isle of Man under 13s champion. He's a ballroom champion in the same way I'm an athletics champion (Berkshire u15 & u17 hurdles).

kingstongraham

dish_dash wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

Wouldn't Cavendish technically not be allowed to do it as a former ballroom dancing champion?

Although they have been pretty lax with letting ringers on (so I'm told )

The rules are around previous *ballroom* dancing specifically. Hence having contemporary/hip hop dancers as contestants.

Ultimately pretty much every actor will have done some form of dance training as part of their performing arts education, hence needed to be a bit tolerant of the label 'prior experience'.

Didn't Vince Cable have extensive ballroom dancing experience before doing Strictly?

He only did a Christmas special.

DeVlaeminck

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

PhotoNic69 wrote:

Trouble it that Pro cyclists don't really have that many transferable skills so they hang in there for the paycheck as little has prepared them for anything outside of cycling. I guess there are coaching opportunities etc but they are pretty limited.

Cavendish would be a natural for Strictly Come Dancing - he has a dancing history - and then on to TV work after if he wished.

He wouldn't be allowed to enter.

He was something like Isle of Man under 13s champion. He's a ballroom champion in the same way I'm an athletics champion (Berkshire u15 & u17 hurdles).

Probably enough to rule him out though. Maybe he'll get an offer from I'm A Celebrity ?

blazing_saddles

TimothyW wrote:

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

rich pcp wrote:

I kind of get why people are divided over Cav's future but he just loves cycling.
I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Greaves playing for Barnet atb the end of his career because he loved playing football.
I think Cav is cut from the same jib.
Many said it was detracting from his glory years but if Cav likes to keep on trying, good for him. You're a long time retired.

CaV might like to ' keep trying' but his sponsor s might see it different. They won't give him 300k (?) plus to ' have a go '.

You say that but getting publicity for their brand, even if it is over speculation that Cav should retire, might make it worthwhile to them.

Certainly we see plenty of doomed attacks in the average race that appear to mostly be about riders getting their sponsors on tv.

Pretty much sums up most of the french participating at the Tour.
Seems that the sponsors are quite happy with that, given that they mostly tend to stay on with a team, long term.
So too the ASO, who are happy to hand out their wildcards to these virtual no hopers.

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Probably enough to rule him out though. Maybe he'll get an offer from I'm A Celebrity ?

I'm A Celebrity is more a Chris Froome thing. He'd go off on a challenge and come back with two pet snakes.

kingstongraham

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Probably enough to rule him out though. Maybe he'll get an offer from I'm A Celebrity ?

I'm A Celebrity is more a Chris Froome thing. He'd go off on a challenge and come back with two pet snakes.

No local schools in the area to provide pet rabbits though I don't think.

RichN95.

KingstonGraham wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Probably enough to rule him out though. Maybe he'll get an offer from I'm A Celebrity ?

I'm A Celebrity is more a Chris Froome thing. He'd go off on a challenge and come back with two pet snakes.

No local schools in the area to provide pet rabbits though I don't think.

I'm sure a YouTuber or a footballer's wife would suffice.

vinnymarsden

I had a bad case of Pneumonia last year and it is taking me a long time to get back to what I consider 100% so I can see why it would take a top athlete at any sport a while to regain maximum conditioning whilst also trying to fulfil obligations and keep food on the table.
Give the guy a chance, I'm sure there are, as it said at the beginning of the War of the worlds.."minds infinitely more powerful than ours" assessing his levels/ability etc I don't think they need some forum enthusiasts deciding his time is up really!!

Alejandrosdog

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I had a bad case of Pneumonia last year and it is taking me a long time to get back to what I consider 100% so I can see why it would take a top athlete at any sport a while to regain maximum conditioning whilst also trying to fulfil obligations and keep food on the table.
Give the guy a chance, I'm sure there are, as it said at the beginning of the War of the worlds.."minds infinitely more powerful than ours" assessing his levels/ability etc I don't think they need some forum enthusiasts deciding his time is up really!!

Im pretty sure there are no minds infinitely more powerful than mine on his case

Jammiedodgeruk

Pross wrote:

Jammiedodgeruk wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

For whose benefit would his retirement be? Yours because you don't like it when he doesn't win?

As long as he wants to carry on riding and someone is willing to give him a contract, good luck to him.

And your point about Viviani implying he was past it which is why he is moving down a grade by going to Cofidis - he is 30, and in THIS YEAR's Tour, he had four stages in the top 3 including a stage win. Stage wins in the 2018 Giro, 2018 Vuelta and 2019 TdF. Think he's doing OK actually, and more a statement by Cofidis that they want to go up a level.

Its not about wether I dont like it when he doesn't win, although yes, I don't like it because I do want to see him win. It's more about has his time come and should he retire given he's obviously not the Cav of old. Of course I want to see him win, which part of my post did you dream up in your mind where I want to see him lose? Strange.

At no point did I say Vivianni was past it either, I said that maybe he's recognising hes hitting that point in his career where managing his expectations is a reality now, therefore hes going to a slightly lesser team. The fact being though that Vivianni is nearly 5 years younger than Cav so if he's accepting a new direction shouldn't Cav be? The difference also is that Cav (as I pointed out in my OP) still talks like hes the Cav of old, like he's still doing it and winning races but quite clearly, he isn't.

You could argue, that Dimension Data not taking him to the Tour was their was of nudging him a bit to open his eyes up without shouting in his face 'Cav, you're past it son'.

You still seem to have completely missed the point that he picked up an illness and that he may regain form if / when he gets over it.

Do you think people should suggest you give up your job and take early retirement because you aren't achieving anything of note?

Well there's two things here. First I haven't missed the point that he picked up a virus, albeit a virus he picked up nearly 2 years ago now and people such as yourselves use it to defend him all the time. The big word you use is 'may', so you're not convinced he's going to then? Otherwise you would have used the word 'when'. I often find that blind loyalty overrides peoples intelligence, which seems to be the case here. Being a rider and believing to have a knowledge of Pro cycling doesn't protect anyone from brain farts now and then.

Secondly, Im not suggesting he should retire, I'm asking people should he retire based on the fact his job is to win races. My job isn't to win races, therefore Ive no need to retire. When the day comes that I start doing my job as bad as Cavendish seems to be doing his, then yes, I will think long and hard about retiring. Fortunately for me I am still achieving things of note. It's a shame I can't say the same for Cavendish, hence my OP.