TDF 2019, Stage 20: Albertville > Val Thorens 27/07/2019 - 130 km *Spoilers*

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mate 2015 that’s only a top Tour if you’re a Froome fan.

Similarly this one is only great if you think the possibilty of a French win is important. Swap Alaphilippe and Pinot for Benoot and Fuglsang and is it still great?

It’s a bit different as it’s a French race

No tennis fan would claim 2013 was great Wimbledon just because Murray won when Federer and Nadal went out in the first rounds.

Didn't you just make an argument for 2015 the same way?
Swap Froome and Quintana for Mollema and Gesink and is it still great?
As for the other 3 "greats" in the top 5, Valverde was the best, over 5 minutes down. The other two were pushing double that. Hardly in the mix.
One can also reference this race in the same glowing terms as you describe the Mur, cobbles, Greipel and the Cummings ambush.

shirley_basso

Disappointed as the poster above that GT and EB weren't riding for polka once it became clear that SK wasnt a threat. They could have made him look like a sprinter by comparison if they wanted.

blazing_saddles

gsk82 wrote:

I think yesterday added to the tour. Today was the real downer.

Up to a point, pretty much.
Yesterday certainly had GC action and ended in drama. Not quite 1996, but pretty extreme.
Today delivered a Tour turd of such proportions that it knocked at least 10% off the overall value for me.
Decent weekend weather and we wouldn't be having this debate, imo.

Pross

mididoctors wrote:

the right guy wore yellow in the end I think but everyone will be debating it forever.

Nothing to debate. Thomas was getting stronger but Egan had more, JA showed today what would have happened but I loved the way he fought for it. If only Bardet and Barguil would show that sort of spirit (Pinot seems to have refound himself and I really feel for him having to drop out), SK and Buchmann rode very well but it seems they were at their limits just holding station at the end - I think we can ignore SK's claims he was going to attack on the final climb yesterday.

Geraint seemed genuinely pleased for Bernal and ultimately I guess it was fitting after all the work Bernal did for him last year. Hopefully Bernal can stay fit and healthy and who knows how many he could win. Maybe ASO will reduce the climbing, especially at altitude, and go for more medium mountain stages and lumpy TTs going forward!

hypster

Pross wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

the right guy wore yellow in the end I think but everyone will be debating it forever.

Nothing to debate. Thomas was getting stronger but Egan had more, JA showed today what would have happened but I loved the way he fought for it. If only Bardet and Barguil would show that sort of spirit (Pinot seems to have refound himself and I really feel for him having to drop out), SK and Buchmann rode very well but it seems they were at their limits just holding station at the end - I think we can ignore SK's claims he was going to attack on the final climb yesterday.

Geraint seemed genuinely pleased for Bernal and ultimately I guess it was fitting after all the work Bernal did for him last year. Hopefully Bernal can stay fit and healthy and who knows how many he could win. Maybe ASO will reduce the climbing, especially at altitude, and go for more medium mountain stages and lumpy TTs going forward!

Yeah, ASO seem determined to try and design a course every year to suit Romain Bardet and every year he turns up trained to ride something else!

markwb79

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mate 2015 that’s only a top Tour if you’re a Froome fan.

Makes me want to watch it again.

markwb79

I am wondering..... if Froome had been here....Been in Yellow days ago, would that have made the weakness in the team more obvious. Kwiato and Moscon were very missing. Did Moscon cover the loss of Froome?

I don't think Ineos could have ridden like the last from stage 12 to today for example

shirley_basso

Lads

awavey

Pross wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

the right guy wore yellow in the end I think but everyone will be debating it forever.

Nothing to debate. Thomas was getting stronger but Egan had more, JA showed today what would have happened but I loved the way he fought for it. If only Bardet and Barguil would show that sort of spirit (Pinot seems to have refound himself and I really feel for him having to drop out), SK and Buchmann rode very well but it seems they were at their limits just holding station at the end - I think we can ignore SK's claims he was going to attack on the final climb yesterday.

Geraint seemed genuinely pleased for Bernal and ultimately I guess it was fitting after all the work Bernal did for him last year.

this ^ totally but is that final point the difference between Geraint and other GC overall winners ?

I dont know, ifs and buts and maybes...but I like to think the summary of the whole tour so far can be summed up by this fans passion, saw it during the stage coverage,almost commented on it, but thought wow shes passionate to the max to that moment it was when Alaphillipe was passing had already shipped enough time to be off the podium
https://twitter.com/i/status/1155121277939724289

slim_boy_fat

lol

https://twitter.com/nygaardbn/status/11 ... 2003827712

norvernrob

I really don’t think it was that good overall. It was only good because it was close and we didn’t know who was going to win. None of the stages were really standout, there were very few big attacks from the GC riders. They just followed each other around with Bernal riding away on the last couple of stages.

inseine

I think every journalist if heard has said it’s been the best Tour for decades

slim_boy_fat

inseine wrote:

I think every journalist if heard has said it’s been the best Tour for decades

I reckon being on the ground would have added a great deal to it. The whole nation must have been buzzing about it which it would be very hard not to get caught up in. Doesn't come through the screen as much however.

I've really enjoyed it. Quite a lot of suspense but no real classic stages.

itboffin

NorvernRob wrote:

I really don’t think it was that good overall. It was only good because it was close and we didn’t know who was going to win. None of the stages were really standout, there were very few big attacks from the GC riders. They just followed each other around with Bernal riding away on the last couple of stages.

This ^^

As for the journalists bigging it up they're just looking to secure a repeat appearance at the next big event

Lanterne_Rogue

NorvernRob wrote:

I really don’t think it was that good overall. It was only good because it was close and we didn’t know who was going to win. None of the stages were really standout, there were very few big attacks from the GC riders. They just followed each other around with Bernal riding away on the last couple of stages.

So just like every other tour except with some suspense for once then?

hypster

This is all starting to get a bit weird I think. People are saying it was good because the racing was close but no big attacks. So what do we want then big attacks which could lead to big gaps and so the racing isn't so close? Obviously not. What we want is loads of attacks from various riders all taking time out of each other and an ebb and flow right to the wire.

In that case I blame Alaphilippe for dominating this race and holding on to the yellow jersey for too long and stiffling any real racing.

ocdupalais

2012 was obviously the best as I was there to see Wiggins take yellow on Planche DBF and then crush everyone in the TT. Crammed into the local bar to see Wiggins’s finishing time that day and then hear the “ooh la-las” and “encroyable”s was magnificent. That our folding chairs had been knicked when we came out - less so.

ShutupJens

Heard people saying it was ordinary even before yesterdays stage. Astounds me what a short memory some people have, even Froome's smallest winning margin had any suspense taken away because he was carrying half a minutes lead into the final TT.. There's been a lot of interesting storylines over the last 3 weeks, even most of the sprint stages have been decent

blazing_saddles

It's all a matter of personal taste. At least I've had cause to look back at the 2015 edition and I have to say it wasn't half bad, with a lot of exciting stuff in the first week, much like this race. For me, a lot of the good stuff seemed to get washed away by a sea of negative comments, when the race hit the high mountains and in the eyes of many, a super strong Sky took over control and it ceased to be a contest.

Which brings me to my point.
When Sky signed Bernal, there were choruses of complaints that they had bought out the most talented young rider in the peloton and would now crush his ability by putting him into service under the yoke of SDB and Chris Froome.
Instead, they have turned him into the youngest Tour de France winner in 110 years.

craigus89

Very disappointed with SK getting onto the podium, he has obviously been watching Quintana too much. And don't get me started on Buchman.

Not one attack from either of them that I can remember the whole race.

RichN95.

Craigus89 wrote:

Very disappointed with SK getting onto the podium, he has obviously been watching Quintana too much. And don't get me started on Buchman.

Not one attack from either of them that I can remember the whole race.

Kruijswijk still owes me £900

ShutupJens

RichN95 wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

Very disappointed with SK getting onto the podium, he has obviously been watching Quintana too much. And don't get me started on Buchman.

Not one attack from either of them that I can remember the whole race.

Kruijswijk still owes me £900

Yeah a mate of mine had an each way on Alaphillipe from before the tour at silly odds. Must have been gutted today!

Agree with the sentiment re Kruijkswik. Upon watching today it looked like he was content with this being his best ever race, there's no way he'll win anything riding like that

ddraver

As always...the anticipation of an epic race built up over three weeks (or, say, a classics season) is rarely matched by the reality.

s'cycling innit...

pblakeney

Coopster the 1st wrote:

I would love to have seen Bernal try for the Polka dot jersey

True. With 5k to go it was the only intrigue. I imagine finishing with Yellow, White and Polka.

PS

PBlakeney wrote:

Pross wrote:

The exception to dispel the rule that the Giro is the most exciting Grand Tour.

Careful now. It still could be. :shock:
I predict a boring TdF and hope for a Vuelta redemption.

Muppet! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Pross

NorvernRob wrote:

I really don’t think it was that good overall. It was only good because it was close and we didn’t know who was going to win. None of the stages were really standout, there were very few big attacks from the GC riders. They just followed each other around with Bernal riding away on the last couple of stages.

First couple of weeks were excellent. It petered out a bit at the end but still the best since the Schleck / Contador battle at least. Ineos's apparent lack of strength in depth, the small time gaps and Movistar's sometimes bizarre tactics meant that there was no-one really taking control and dominating the race and an unexpected rider took yellow early and started raising questions of whether he could be dislodged.

DeVlaeminck

iainf72 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Yes and I think Allaphilippe being 1:30 ahead is more exciting than say Froome being 1:30 ahead. With JA you never thought this was over - if Froome got ahead and extended his lead in the TT you feel it would take misfortune to dislodge him. Plus 2nd to 5th was so close.

So did you believe that JA might be able to do it?

I never did so in my head I never really factored him as an actual GC threat.

Yes I thought he had a chance up until he cracked yesterday. I didn't have him down as the favourite at any time but I thought after the time trial that he had a realistic chance.

RichN95.

ShutupJens wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

Very disappointed with SK getting onto the podium, he has obviously been watching Quintana too much. And don't get me started on Buchman.

Not one attack from either of them that I can remember the whole race.

Kruijswijk still owes me £900

Yeah a mate of mine had an each way on Alaphillipe from before the tour at silly odds. Must have been gutted today!

Agree with the sentiment re Kruijkswik. Upon watching today it looked like he was content with this being his best ever race, there's no way he'll win anything riding like that

No, this from back at the 2016 Giro when he crashed into an ice wall.

No_Ta_Doctor

This should all probably be saved for a proper rate the tour thread, but we have a last stage to go which could provide something we'd want to take into consideration...

BUT:

A lot of foreplay that ended up with a quick hand-job.

I didn't ever think Alaphilippe would hang on all the way, but his presence - with a minute and a half lead - meant that cracking him was an issue. With Ineos not having a fully functioning mountain train shifting him was always looking like a risk, leaving the GC riders isolated. With Pinot looking like a serious contender that threw up a lot of interesting problems. Ineos always looked favourites, with two riders capable of winning if they played it right, but with Pinot out there was no counter to Bernal.

This is pretty much what mididoctors said way further up.

The premature end to stage 19 meant we didn't get to see Bernal do something epic / others fight back and eventually break him (whichever way it might have played out) - but either outcome would have been a great stage. Similarly, the shortening of stage 20 didn't let us see Ineos have to control a hard stage (while Movistar probably rolled the chaos dice again) to keep the yellow.

But those two stages had huge potential, and stage 19 was on its way to being a classic (just the fact that a contender attacked on the second to last climb puts it ahead of the majority of MTF stages in recent years).

My pre tour prediction was Thomas in yellow after the TT, a close finish in times, but everyone else dïcking around for podium/top 5/top 10 and gifting it to Ineos. Alaphilippe and Pinot changed things hugely.

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Didn't you just make an argument for 2015 the same way?
Swap Froome and Quintana for Mollema and Gesink and is it still great?
As for the other 3 "greats" in the top 5, Valverde was the best, over 5 minutes down. The other two were pushing double that. Hardly in the mix.
One can also reference this race in the same glowing terms as you describe the Mur, cobbles, Greipel and the Cummings ambush.

No, you're wrong (IMO). In 2014 the GT winners were Quintana, Nibali and Contador. Froome was a past champion. This wasn't a race. It was a summit. A reckoning. The titans assembling for a clash.

I just like a heavyweight battle. This year was a battle of understudies. And my personal sporting taste is seeing the best against the best.

rick_chasey

hypster wrote:

This is all starting to get a bit weird I think. People are saying it was good because the racing was close but no big attacks. So what do we want then big attacks which could lead to big gaps and so the racing isn't so close? Obviously not. What we want is loads of attacks from various riders all taking time out of each other and an ebb and flow right to the wire.

In that case I blame Alaphilippe for dominating this race and holding on to the yellow jersey for too long and stiffling any real racing.

No big attacks? Was I watching the same Pinot that you lot were?

And Bernal went hard with a good 30km to go before the stage was shortened.