TDF Stage 19, Stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 26/07/2019 - 126,5 km *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • Hendrix2430
    Hendrix2430 Posts: 119
    What a bummer for Pinot. He could have won...
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    hypster wrote:
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    I bet Pinot will be thinking now, "If I only carried on and made it to the top of l'Iseran"...
    "... I'd be an hour down, have really wrecked my leg and still wouldn't be starting tomorrow anyway."

    Yeah right. I don't think that thought will have entered his head.
    I think he'd put pragmatism and his health above some fantastical BS hypotheticals about carrying on.

    Why do some people have trouble accepting the reality and practicality of a given situation?
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Why are people so pragmatic and ruthless when this is such an emotional moment for him?
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Richard T. Biscuit wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Richard T. Biscuit wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    I bet Pinot will be thinking now, "If I only carried on and made it to the top of l'Iseran"...
    He'd probably be outside the top 20 and have done more damage to himself.

    Absolutely, but given the choice I think he would have carried on. There's only one thing worse than losing and that's quitting. I would say not finishing (yet again) is what stings the most for him.
    Quitting when there's not point carrying on and fighting another day is better that carrying on regardless and risking your chance of being able to fight another day. As bad as today was for Pinot I think he'll be encouraged by his performance going forward.

    Grinding himself into the ground today in order to make a tokenistic finish wouldn't have done him any good.

    I can't fault your logic and you and I know that which is one reason why we are not pro cyclists. How many times have we heard of these guys carrying on with broken collar bones or a fractured pelvis as Geraint Thomas did a few years back? Pain is what they live with on a daily basis and stopping just goes against the grain.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,901
    gsk82 wrote:
    The weather probably saved Dowsett and others

    Postponed the inevitable. Their reward being they get an even worse day of grovelling out the back.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    I bet Pinot will be thinking now, "If I only carried on and made it to the top of l'Iseran"...
    "... I'd be an hour down, have really wrecked my leg and still wouldn't be starting tomorrow anyway."

    Yeah right. I don't think that thought will have entered his head.
    I think he'd put pragmatism and his health above some fantastical BS hypotheticals about carrying on.

    Why do some people have trouble accepting the reality and practicality of a given situation?

    Why did he start at all today then and put hmself through that hell if it was so obvious? I'm not having a pop I honestly feel for the guy and hope he comes back even stronger.
  • richard_t._biscuit
    richard_t._biscuit Posts: 246
    hypster wrote:
    Richard T. Biscuit wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Richard T. Biscuit wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    I bet Pinot will be thinking now, "If I only carried on and made it to the top of l'Iseran"...
    He'd probably be outside the top 20 and have done more damage to himself.

    Absolutely, but given the choice I think he would have carried on. There's only one thing worse than losing and that's quitting. I would say not finishing (yet again) is what stings the most for him.
    Quitting when there's not point carrying on and fighting another day is better that carrying on regardless and risking your chance of being able to fight another day. As bad as today was for Pinot I think he'll be encouraged by his performance going forward.

    Grinding himself into the ground today in order to make a tokenistic finish wouldn't have done him any good.

    I can't fault your logic and you and I know that which is one reason why we are not pro cyclists. How many times have we heard of these guys carrying on with broken collar bones or a fractured pelvis as Geraint Thomas did a few years back? Pain is what they live with on a daily basis and stopping just goes against the grain.
    As brave and extreme some of the injuries riders have finished with, there is a line where you can't carry on in any reasonable fashion. The rider/team will know that and that's where a degree of pragmatism happens. As often a riders do carry through huge adversity on you do see regular abandonments. Today was one of those moments. Pain is one thing, not physically being able to ride at any reasonable pace is another.
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    Why are people so pragmatic and ruthless when this is such an emotional moment for him?
    Whilst it's an emotional time for him it serves no purpose if everyone around him also starts blubbering uncontrollably as they're then of no use.

    Thankfully, people who can be pragmatic, and at times ruthless, can be better in supporting people at times of distress.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,043
    hypster wrote:
    Why did he start at all today then.

    I thought the team advice was it was okay to start.
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    davidof wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Why did he start at all today then.

    I thought the team advice was it was okay to start.

    Team advice? How would they know and why did no teammates drop back to try and help him? I think it was fairly obvious that he shouldn't have even started yet it was his decision to give it a go.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,475
    Still no official results on the race website.

    They're going to cancel the full stage, i can feel it.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    gsk82 wrote:
    Still no official results on the race website.

    They're going to cancel the full stage, i can feel it.
    Official results further up the thread on earlier page.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,475
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    Still no official results on the race website.

    They're going to cancel the full stage, i can feel it.
    Official results further up the thread on earlier page.

    I question how official they are
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    gsk82 wrote:
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    Still no official results on the race website.

    They're going to cancel the full stage, i can feel it.
    Official results further up the thread on earlier page.

    I question how official they are
    Well they've given out the jerseys based upon the results so I'd say pretty official.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,901
    A guy attacks 40kms out on the penultimate climb, but because he rides for Ineos, we get:

    this tour went from best in years to garbage in like 2 hours

    You can guess where this came from.
    I think this particular post was tongue in cheek, but somebody from the land that doesn't do irony gave it a big thumbs up.
    I'm sure some even think Alaphilippe might have come back to win the stage. :oops:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Maybe, like the Giro, the Tour will reconsider super high mountains

    I think that would be a daft idea.

    I rode the route last week and conditions were perfect. Weather happens especially in the mountains. As has been pointed out the worst weather and "debris flow" was not at high altitude.

    The Tour in July is normally a much safer bet than the Giro in May. This shouldn't require reconsidering route planning.
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    hypster wrote:
    davidof wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Why did he start at all today then.

    I thought the team advice was it was okay to start.

    Team advice? How would they know and why did no teammates drop back to try and help him? I think it was fairly obvious that he shouldn't have even started yet it was his decision to give it a go.

    The cynic in me says he started today because they needed good TV of him stepping off the bike. This is Madiot's team, and heroic failure is as good as victory. The public needed to see him fight to his last.

    I don't think they'd have started him if they thought he could seriously fück himself up, and they knew that if he struggled then it was over - hence no teammates.
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  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,043
    hypster wrote:
    davidof wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Why did he start at all today then.

    I thought the team advice was it was okay to start.

    Team advice? How would they know

    the team medical staff then
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,411
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    A guy attacks 40kms out on the penultimate climb, but because he rides for Ineos, we get:

    this tour went from best in years to garbage in like 2 hours

    You can guess where this came from.
    I think this particular post was tongue in cheek, but somebody from the land that doesn't do irony gave it a big thumbs up.
    I'm sure some even think Alaphilippe might have come back to win the stage. :oops:

    I went to have a browse. In general it's not as bad as I was expecting, outside the asylum. I did laugh at the quote you've selected there though :-D
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    From Ineos; GC has been slightly revised post-stage. Latest leaderboard heading into Saturday's decider:

    1. Egan bernal(@TeamINEOS)
    2. Alaphilippe (DQT) +48’’
    3. Geraint Thomas(@TeamINEOS) +1’16’’
    4. Kruijswijk (TJV) +1’28’’
    5. Buchmann (BOH) +1’55’’
  • johnboy183
    johnboy183 Posts: 832
    Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about possibly restarting the final leg of the stage once everyone was carted around/through/over the blockages. My initial thought was no, you can’t do that, never been done before. However this is just what happened at Milan San Remo several years back. Wonder what is different now?
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,475
    johnboy183 wrote:
    Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about possibly restarting the final leg of the stage once everyone was carted around/through/over the blockages. My initial thought was no, you can’t do that, never been done before. However this is just what happened at Milan San Remo several years back. Wonder what is different now?

    That will have been in a couple of large groups. There was probably 20 plus groups today. How do you determine all the time gaps and set them off at the right time?
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,176
    johnboy183 wrote:
    Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about possibly restarting the final leg of the stage once everyone was carted around/through/over the blockages. My initial thought was no, you can’t do that, never been done before. However this is just what happened at Milan San Remo several years back. Wonder what is different now?
    One day race v Stage race.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • PhilipPirrip
    PhilipPirrip Posts: 616
    johnboy183 wrote:
    Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about possibly restarting the final leg of the stage once everyone was carted around/through/over the blockages. My initial thought was no, you can’t do that, never been done before. However this is just what happened at Milan San Remo several years back. Wonder what is different now?
    Whilst they might have been able to get all vehicles through flooded roads they wouldn't have been able to get the motor vehicles over the debris flow in reasonable time.

    If you remember back to 2015, Stage 4 I think, they stopped the stage when the front of the race had no medical support which was all occupied further back on the stage. Similarly today, they could have sent the bikes on but wouldn't have been able to provide medical support for the riders, which would be a clear failure of duty of care.

    Medical support is just one example. Team cars and Mavic neutral support wouldn't have got through so a simple puncture could have wiped out someone's overall chances.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 17,146
    i hope they try and get landa in the break tomorrow. why not nothing to lose
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • johnboy183
    johnboy183 Posts: 832
    I don’t know what the answer is, or even if it’s possible to do. Just posing the question
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Missed the stage but watched the end of velo on canal + sport or whatever. They were literally in tears. They had to cut away as on one commentator was to too distressed, you could hear her crying in the background. Absolute national disaster for france.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    Missed the stage but watched the end of velo on canal + sport or whatever. They were literally in tears. They had to cut away as on one commentator was to too distressed, you could hear her crying in the background. Absolute national disaster for france.

    :shock:
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,402
    About Allaphillipe cracking or the weather???

    (Elle est Marion Rousseau non?)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,176
    johnboy183 wrote:
    I don’t know what the answer is, or even if it’s possible to do. Just posing the question
    Milan-San Remo was much easier to restart. There was six man break and a peloton (including some dropped riders who got let back in). They needed a winner on the day and that was easy solution.

    Today though riders were all over the place. There was no way of sensibly restarting. And the race can still have a meaningful winner with the cancellation.
    Twitter: @RichN95

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