Tour build up 2019

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    awavey wrote:
    if Froome were still involved in this years TdF it would have just passed 400 days since he last won a race anywhere, so I dont get why people get so hung up on Cavs lack of recent victories, especially since he had glandular fever in that time, surely its about the number of chances to go for the win and whether he's been in the mix and right end of races and looking to peak for the TdF, much like Sky/Ineos operate.
    Sure, but.... since the last time Cavendish won a Grand Tour stage, Froome has won three Grand Tours (four if you include the one Cavendish last won in) had two podiums and won seven stages
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gweeds
    gweeds Posts: 2,564
    Also 34 for a GT rider is very different to 34 for a sprinter.
    Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    Gweeds wrote:
    Also 34 for a GT rider is very different to 34 for a sprinter.
    Inane trivia: Froome and Cavendish were born on consecutive days
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Kruiswijk does alrite at altitude.

    I think Quintana is ok.

    It’ll be a challenge for alaphilippe for the polka I suspect.
    Plus he’s a bit of a diesel and the last summit finish takes 34kms to reach 2400 metres.
    Not sure how good Bernal will be up to Val Thorens...

    I can't see Val Thorens being a big challenge to many of them TBH. It might be 34km, but it's an average 5.5% climb and it's a couple of hundred meters below the Galibier. The previous two stages will be the killers.
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    RichN95 wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    if Froome were still involved in this years TdF it would have just passed 400 days since he last won a race anywhere, so I dont get why people get so hung up on Cavs lack of recent victories, especially since he had glandular fever in that time, surely its about the number of chances to go for the win and whether he's been in the mix and right end of races and looking to peak for the TdF, much like Sky/Ineos operate.
    Sure, but.... since the last time Cavendish won a Grand Tour stage, Froome has won three Grand Tours (four if you include the one Cavendish last won in) had two podiums and won seven stages

    I just think people obsess too much with Cavs stats like that, thats all, few other pro rank riders seem to get so much grief about not winning for long periods and I dont think people realise how badly glandular fever can hit you and how long it takes to get over it properly.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,103
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    I can't see Val Thorens being a big challenge to many of them TBH. It might be 34km, but it's an average 5.5% climb and it's a couple of hundred meters below the Galibier. The previous two stages will be the killers.

    Exactly, which is what will make this third consecutive high mountain stage so challenging. Especially for the likes of Valverde, Dennis, etc., who've previously shown they don't like back to back mountain stages over 2000 metres.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    [/quote]
    Sure, but.... since the last time Cavendish won a Grand Tour stage, Froome has won three Grand Tours (four if you include the one Cavendish last won in) had two podiums and won seven stages[/quote]

    I just think people obsess too much with Cavs stats like that, thats all, few other pro rank riders seem to get so much grief about not winning for long periods and I dont think people realise how badly glandular fever can hit you and how long it takes to get over it properly.[/quote]

    So which other rider bounced back after such a long dry spell?
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,103
    inseine wrote:
    So which other rider bounced back after such a long dry spell?

    Petacchi is probably the most obvious example - had a very lean spell in his Milram years, then came back in 2010 to win stages in the Tour and Vuelta.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    inseine wrote:
    So which other rider bounced back after such a long dry spell?

    Gino Bartali had a 10 year gap between his TdF wins. :wink:
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    RichN95 wrote:
    Gweeds wrote:
    Also 34 for a GT rider is very different to 34 for a sprinter.
    Inane trivia: Froome and Cavendish were born on consecutive days
    Eddy had a decent sprint on him as well, he really could do the lot.

    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.

    if his highroad team was around in those 2 years you'd have seen 5 or 6 wins each year and probably a different story.
    as it is Cav should be recognised as the best sprinter at the tour, and by some distance.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    awavey wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    if Froome were still involved in this years TdF it would have just passed 400 days since he last won a race anywhere, so I dont get why people get so hung up on Cavs lack of recent victories, especially since he had glandular fever in that time, surely its about the number of chances to go for the win and whether he's been in the mix and right end of races and looking to peak for the TdF, much like Sky/Ineos operate.
    Sure, but.... since the last time Cavendish won a Grand Tour stage, Froome has won three Grand Tours (four if you include the one Cavendish last won in) had two podiums and won seven stages

    I just think people obsess too much with Cavs stats like that, thats all, few other pro rank riders seem to get so much grief about not winning for long periods and I dont think people realise how badly glandular fever can hit you and how long it takes to get over it properly.
    I also get this. effectively 2-2 1/2 years of your life ruined. its an awful shame.
  • ShutupJens
    ShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    philbar72 wrote:
    2013 he was burnt out from 2012.

    Bit of an exaggeration no? A couple of trips back to the car to get bottles is hardly likely to cause someone to "burn out".. the emergence of Marcel Kittel surely had more to do with a thin tour for Cav with only 2 stages
  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    andyp wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    So which other rider bounced back after such a long dry spell?

    Petacchi is probably the most obvious example - had a very lean spell in his Milram years, then came back in 2010 to win stages in the Tour and Vuelta.

    Considering his history, perhaps not a natural bounce back.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    andyp wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    So which other rider bounced back after such a long dry spell?

    Petacchi is probably the most obvious example - had a very lean spell in his Milram years, then came back in 2010 to win stages in the Tour and Vuelta.
    Except in 2009 he had 11 wins including 2 in the Giro?
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,801
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    jimmythecuckoo wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    hands down an ineos win barring more crash catastrophes
    I am still going out on a limb and saying no Ineos rider will win the race.

    I'm going to put some money on Valverde, an absolute outside bet but id love it to happen.

    He will never get over the 3rd week.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,801
    Cavs palmares is second to none. Hard to see him coming back from epstien Barr . Maybe one more year just to make sure. What a career. It is a shame he couldn't get the record tour stages but there you go.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    philbar72 wrote:
    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.
    In 2013 he won 20 races including eight Grand Tours stages and the Giro points jersey. At the Tour he had to face Kittel at his peak (he won four stages)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    RichN95 wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.
    In 2013 he won 20 races including eight Grand Tours stages and the Giro points jersey. At the Tour he had to face Kittel at his peak (he won four stages)
    He had a pretty good year in 2012 too. Never understood the 'Sky ruined him' thing really.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,149
    Daniel Freibe has a lot of good info about the Cavendish situation on the latest Cycling Podcast
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    mididoctors wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    jimmythecuckoo wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    hands down an ineos win barring more crash catastrophes
    I am still going out on a limb and saying no Ineos rider will win the race.

    I'm going to put some money on Valverde, an absolute outside bet but id love it to happen.

    He will never get over the 3rd week.

    I cant believe he's still riding at the top! I agree but im going to do it anyway :)
  • poptart242
    poptart242 Posts: 531
    So I just punted a fiver each on Nibbles at 40/1 and Pinot at 18/1 - I'm just putting it here so I'm accountable for praise (unlikely) or ridicule (likely by the end of the first cobbled sector of stage one in Pinot's case).
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    inseine wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.
    In 2013 he won 20 races including eight Grand Tours stages and the Giro points jersey. At the Tour he had to face Kittel at his peak (he won four stages)
    He had a pretty good year in 2012 too. Never understood the 'Sky ruined him' thing really.
    sure, what 15 wins, is pretty good. but he said that the training was different that year and it lost him a bit of top end....

    anyway, sad times.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,464
    inseine wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.
    In 2013 he won 20 races including eight Grand Tours stages and the Giro points jersey. At the Tour he had to face Kittel at his peak (he won four stages)
    He had a pretty good year in 2012 too. Never understood the 'Sky ruined him' thing really.

    He won more tour stages in 1 year at sky than in 2 at quick step
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,474
    inseine wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    philbar72 wrote:
    With a tour having at least 4 and often 5-7 stages per year that suit the sprints, an in form Cav at his dominant best (2008-2014) should have got closer. sky ruined him, in terms of getting him to be worker bee for the wiggins GC in 2012 and the prep for the Olympics and the multiple ascents of box hill for the failed gold attempt in the road race, and 2013 he was burnt out from 2012.
    In 2013 he won 20 races including eight Grand Tours stages and the Giro points jersey. At the Tour he had to face Kittel at his peak (he won four stages)
    He had a pretty good year in 2012 too. Never understood the 'Sky ruined him' thing really.

    If anyone ruined him it was Quickstep, he won 2 Tour stages in his first season with them and then only managed another 1 in the next 2 seasons (obviously not helped by crashing out on the first stage in 2014). He then won 4 in his first season at Dimension Data so his leanest patch prior to contracting EB was at QS with his most successful season being the first after he joined from Sky which really shoots down the argument that Sky ruined him.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,339
    Apropos of nothing, I expect Richie Porte to have his best result ever at the Tour.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • twotoebenny
    twotoebenny Posts: 1,432
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Apropos of nothing, I expect Richie Porte to have his best result ever at the Tour.

    Completing 3 weeks would be a step in the right direction... his best finish to date is 5th in 2016
  • epc06
    epc06 Posts: 214
    TwoToeBenny wrote:
    M.R.M. wrote:
    Apropos of nothing, I expect Richie Porte to have his best result ever at the Tour.

    Completing 3 weeks would be a step in the right direction... his best finish to date is 5th in 2016

    Clearly he's had mishaps that have contributed but Porte has never had a podium in a GT. Is it unfair to say that's a massive underachievement ?
    Even after one of his most impressive rides (2017 dauphine last stage) he ended up losing the race on a time bonus.

    Would love to see him do well this year but just cannot see it
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,091
    Lotto-Soudal wrote:
    In the Belgian races, the team will be at the start with a Lotto Soudal shirt, in all the non-Belgian races with a Soudal Lotto shirt, and this will apply to the WorldTour team, the Ladies team and the development team.

    Putting this madness here because it doesn't merit a thread of its own, but if you think Team Ineos is causing commentators problems just wait until Lotto Soudal start using home and away names.
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,593
    EPC06 wrote:
    Clearly he's had mishaps that have contributed but Porte has never had a podium in a GT. Is it unfair to say that's a massive underachievement ?
    Even after one of his most impressive rides (2017 dauphine last stage) he ended up losing the race on a time bonus.

    Would love to see him do well this year but just cannot see it

    Cycling Podcast (I think) discussed this before. Seems he's only rated in the UK as he was an english speaking rider on a UK team. Elsewhere hes considered a good climber, week stage racer and top dom, but certainly no GC contender. I can't seem him ever getting a podium.
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,231
    Poptart242 wrote:
    So I just punted a fiver each on Nibbles at 40/1 and Pinot at 18/1 - I'm just putting it here so I'm accountable for praise (unlikely) or ridicule (likely by the end of the first cobbled sector of stage one in Pinot's case).
    The Sharky Nibbler is a nice choice - but I’d have gone each way for a tenner. No one - even he, I suspect - knows where he’s at until 3rd week (he could shine at Planche de Belles Filles, but then crumble from fatigue in final stages). So, in summary: maybe a good choice for podium; bit shaky for the win.

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