Wife of ISIS fighter wants to return to the UK

rjsterry · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Yes I’m on the watch list that’s for people who would rather these terrorists died in Syria watchlist.

And the ones who have already returned to Europe? 42000 joined IS or other terrorist organisations. They're not all going to conveniently stay in Syria, albeit that some seem intent on dying in Baghuz.

rolf_f · March 2019

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

Well in that case best just execute all Syrians just to make sure.

john80 wrote:

I will be clear if a human being had done what Shamina Begum has done then I would be taking the same view. The ethnicity or religion of the person is irrelevant. She has supported and organisation that has breached a large number of UK laws and values.

So, she isn't human and you regard her breaking laws as adequate justification for the UK itself to break its own laws? Honestly, you should look a bit closer to home when talking about people breaching UK values.......

Given the majority of the Syrian population did not want to be ethnically cleansed by a group of mentalists that seems a bit racist to execute them all if I am being honest. You do realise that human is everyone regardless of race. Not sure how you concluded that I thought she was not human from the above post as she looks very much like a human being and all scientific evidence would also point to that conclusion. We will only know for sure if UK has broken its own laws when an appeal is held assuming that her family raise this. The minister has been quite clear in that he is following legal advice and whilst I don't doubt that the lawyers were instructed to research what laws could be used to achieve the aim I am not sure how this breaks with normal practice. Everyone who seeks legal advice sets our with an aim and asks if that aim can be achieved.

You said "if a human being had done what Shamima Begum has done" - how would I not conclude that you seem to regard her as not human. And why on earth do you believe anything Javid says. He has inflated views of his own power and is now finding that actually law defines what he can do and not his ego.

It's your logic that says that all Syrians should be executed. You are the one that doesn't believe that innocence until proven guilty should apply to all.

Do you deliberately mis-interpret what I say or would it help if I spell things out a bit more laboriously?

john80 · March 2019

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

Well in that case best just execute all Syrians just to make sure.

john80 wrote:

I will be clear if a human being had done what Shamina Begum has done then I would be taking the same view. The ethnicity or religion of the person is irrelevant. She has supported and organisation that has breached a large number of UK laws and values.

So, she isn't human and you regard her breaking laws as adequate justification for the UK itself to break its own laws? Honestly, you should look a bit closer to home when talking about people breaching UK values.......

Given the majority of the Syrian population did not want to be ethnically cleansed by a group of mentalists that seems a bit racist to execute them all if I am being honest. You do realise that human is everyone regardless of race. Not sure how you concluded that I thought she was not human from the above post as she looks very much like a human being and all scientific evidence would also point to that conclusion. We will only know for sure if UK has broken its own laws when an appeal is held assuming that her family raise this. The minister has been quite clear in that he is following legal advice and whilst I don't doubt that the lawyers were instructed to research what laws could be used to achieve the aim I am not sure how this breaks with normal practice. Everyone who seeks legal advice sets our with an aim and asks if that aim can be achieved.

You said "if a human being had done what Shamima Begum has done" - how would I not conclude that you seem to regard her as not human. And why on earth do you believe anything Javid says. He has inflated views of his own power and is now finding that actually law defines what he can do and not his ego.

It's your logic that says that all Syrians should be executed. You are the one that doesn't believe that innocence until proven guilty should apply to all.

Do you deliberately mis-interpret what I say or would it help if I spell things out a bit more laboriously?

I think I will wait for the outcome of her families appeal to decide whether Javid has overstepped his reach as this is the only way of knowing. You have a view that is different from the legal advice he has acquired in making this decision and somehow claimed that you are correct. Maybe you are but maybe you are not as it will depend on the legal arguments on the day and the judges view. You have picked up on my use of the word human to indicate that somehow I believe she is less than human. My point is she is human like every other mammal that fits the definition of a human. I don't really care what your race is if you join ISIS and my view will remain the same.

In terms of innocent till proven guilty I am merely pointing out the glaring massive fecking hole that exists between what someone who has committed crimes whilst acting as a foreign fighter might say when interviewed about their actions and what actually could have happened. Her husband apparently rarely used his weapon as he had become disillusioned. Call me a cynic but I can imagine there is a bit of self interest in these claims. There is something to be said in keeping people interned and getting Syria to the point of stable where you can look to identify those individuals responsible for genocide and war crimes. By the way it was someone else who thought that all Syrians should be executed. I thought it was a bit harsh personally as would probably save that for idiots that went abroad to fight a foreign war on the basis that god told them to and let the civilian population get back to their normal lives.

You should note that it is yourself that has repeatedly misquoted my words and then when corrected with further clarification claimed to have been misquoted. Go figure.

rjsterry · March 2019

john80 wrote:

There is something to be said in keeping people interned and getting Syria to the point of stable where you can look to identify those individuals responsible for genocide and war crimes.

What do you reckon; 20years? I mean experience next-door in Iraq would suggest stability in Syria is decades away. As for identifying those responsible for war crimes, that will be compromised somewhat by the country being run by a war criminal.

mr_goo · March 2019

Or the Western Governments of IS fighters/wives/ children could hire lots of lorries and transport them all to Damascus or Baghdad where they can be dealt with by the authorities they were trying to over throw.

rjsterry · March 2019

Mr Goo wrote:

... the authorities they were trying to over throw.

That would be pretty much every government, and certainly includes us.

rolf_f · March 2019

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

Well in that case best just execute all Syrians just to make sure.

john80 wrote:

I will be clear if a human being had done what Shamina Begum has done then I would be taking the same view. The ethnicity or religion of the person is irrelevant. She has supported and organisation that has breached a large number of UK laws and values.

So, she isn't human and you regard her breaking laws as adequate justification for the UK itself to break its own laws? Honestly, you should look a bit closer to home when talking about people breaching UK values.......

Given the majority of the Syrian population did not want to be ethnically cleansed by a group of mentalists that seems a bit racist to execute them all if I am being honest. You do realise that human is everyone regardless of race. Not sure how you concluded that I thought she was not human from the above post as she looks very much like a human being and all scientific evidence would also point to that conclusion. We will only know for sure if UK has broken its own laws when an appeal is held assuming that her family raise this. The minister has been quite clear in that he is following legal advice and whilst I don't doubt that the lawyers were instructed to research what laws could be used to achieve the aim I am not sure how this breaks with normal practice. Everyone who seeks legal advice sets our with an aim and asks if that aim can be achieved.

You said "if a human being had done what Shamima Begum has done" - how would I not conclude that you seem to regard her as not human. And why on earth do you believe anything Javid says. He has inflated views of his own power and is now finding that actually law defines what he can do and not his ego.

It's your logic that says that all Syrians should be executed. You are the one that doesn't believe that innocence until proven guilty should apply to all.

Do you deliberately mis-interpret what I say or would it help if I spell things out a bit more laboriously?

I think I will wait for the outcome of her families appeal to decide whether Javid has overstepped his reach as this is the only way of knowing. You have a view that is different from the legal advice he has acquired in making this decision and somehow claimed that you are correct. Maybe you are but maybe you are not as it will depend on the legal arguments on the day and the judges view. You have picked up on my use of the word human to indicate that somehow I believe she is less than human. My point is she is human like every other mammal that fits the definition of a human. I don't really care what your race is if you join ISIS and my view will remain the same.

In terms of innocent till proven guilty I am merely pointing out the glaring massive ******* hole that exists between what someone who has committed crimes whilst acting as a foreign fighter might say when interviewed about their actions and what actually could have happened. Her husband apparently rarely used his weapon as he had become disillusioned. Call me a cynic but I can imagine there is a bit of self interest in these claims. There is something to be said in keeping people interned and getting Syria to the point of stable where you can look to identify those individuals responsible for genocide and war crimes. By the way it was someone else who thought that all Syrians should be executed. I thought it was a bit harsh personally as would probably save that for idiots that went abroad to fight a foreign war on the basis that god told them to and let the civilian population get back to their normal lives.

You should note that it is yourself that has repeatedly misquoted my words and then when corrected with further clarification claimed to have been misquoted. Go figure.

Do tell me where I have "repeatedly misquoted your words". And in what way. Where have I claimed to have been misquoted? Your words are your words and I have just used the quote button; they condemn you without any input from myself. I was talking about misinterpretation which is an entirely different thing but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's really no hope is there?

Incidentally, what words are you happy with in the circumstances of Shamima and her husband? I think you are one of those who complains that Begum comes across as not repentant enough yet if her husband says he is repentant (ie disillusioned just in case you get stroppy again over me misquoting you!) then you complain about that too. It really does confirm that you don't believe in innocence til proven guilty doesn't it?

PS I'm not American so I don't "Go figure"

kingstongraham · March 2019

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-day ... -6njvqhlxx

DeVlaeminck · March 2019

john80 wrote:

Do you deliberately mis-interpret what I say or would it help if I spell things out a bit more laboriously?

I think I will wait for the outcome of her families appeal to decide whether Javid has overstepped his reach as this is the only way of knowing. You have a view that is different from the legal advice he has acquired in making this decision and somehow claimed that you are correct. Maybe you are but maybe you are not as it will depend on the legal arguments on the day and the judges view. You have picked up on my use of the word human to indicate that somehow I believe she is less than human. My point is she is human like every other mammal that fits the definition of a human. I don't really care what your race is if you join ISIS and my view will remain the same.[/quote]

Purely on the point about Javid's legal advice - even if it turns out that we have the legal right to rescind her citizenship is it really the right thing to put the responsibility for our own home grown ISIS members onto Bangladesh ?

Secondly shouldn't we treat each case on its own merits and this young woman may pose less risk than a hardened veteran front line soldier - I say may because I don't know and I take your point about it being very difficult to investigate crimes committed over there. In amongst the other feelings we may have for her though does not a degree of sympathy exist for getting caught up in something like this when she was 15 ? I think there are mitigating circumstances here which should at least be taken into account.

Thirdly yeah I think your use of the word human is being misused against you there - happens all the time on here - people deliberately assume the worst possibly interpretation of a post and then protest that you should have spent more time agonising over your choice of words if you didn't want that to happen. It's a bit like what's happened to Derek Hatton on twitter.

If I have misrepresented your post it's because I haven't been arsed to read back the last few pages.

john80 · March 2019

Do tell me where I have "repeatedly misquoted your words". And in what way. Where have I claimed to have been misquoted? Your words are your words and I have just used the quote button; they condemn you without any input from myself. I was talking about misinterpretation which is an entirely different thing but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's really no hope is there?

Incidentally, what words are you happy with in the circumstances of Shamima and her husband? I think you are one of those who complains that Begum comes across as not repentant enough yet if her husband says he is repentant (ie disillusioned just in case you get stroppy again over me misquoting you!) then you complain about that too. It really does confirm that you don't believe in innocence til proven guilty doesn't it?

PS I'm not American so I don't "Go figure"[/quote]

I listened to her husbands interview. He does not see a problem in marrying a 15 year old as apparently it was her choice. He does not seem to be the dimmest character so I will assume that he knows that this is both illegal in the UK and Holland and there is good reasons for these laws. In fact the legal age is 18 in Holland unless you can get the consent of the minister of justice and the parents which I can't imagine is common. Now if we look at the Yasidi sex slaves then around 12 seems OK from a ISIS point of view for a bride which is basically religious supported paedophilia.

He does not see a problem with joining a terrorist organisation and killing people presumably regarded as infidels as even the dumbest moron would realise that is what joining ISIS would entail. He appears to have taken part or witnessed a stoning of a woman accused of infidelity. But the good news is they stopped when she ran away. Good to see there is some honour in the practice of stoning. He then only seems to have a problem with this when ISIS apparently locked him up and tortured him. Only then does he realise he has taken for granted the freedoms of a western culture. If I was a prisoner of the Syrian forces I would be saying all this stuff to try to get me off whatever penalties the Syrian authorities are willing to dish out and maximise my chances of returning to Holland. Self interest is very much running in this case. Have you ever considered that he might be lying about ISIS locking him up to gain a bit more sympathy.

I have corrected your misrepresentation of my use of human on two occasions but yet you are still pushing a racist agenda. Its not racist to expect western citizens to comply with norms of western society whether in their home western culture or abroad its just common sense. He might wish for his family life to be returned but holding him in Syria with Holland doing very little to assist his return suits all western governments as a warning to all those who think that leaving your home country to join a terrorist organisation is a good idea. Both he and his illegal wife can be the poster peeps of consequence. This for all the moral hand ringing on here is worth something even if people cannot admit it.

imposter2.0 · March 2019

john80 wrote:

I listened to her husbands interview. He does not see a problem in marrying a 15 year old as apparently it was her choice. He does not seem to be the dimmest character so I will assume that he knows that this is both illegal in the UK and Holland and there is good reasons for these laws. In fact the legal age is 18 in Holland unless you can get the consent of the minister of justice and the parents which I can't imagine is common. Now if we look at the Yasidi sex slaves then around 12 seems OK from a ISIS point of view for a bride which is basically religious supported paedophilia.

In the Victorian era, the UK age of consent was 13. Up until 1885. Paragons of virtue, those Victorians. In Nigeria, it's currently set at 11. In Japan it's still 13. 14 in Austria. Judging others by your extrapolation of domestic consent laws makes you look like you haven't thought about it.

robert88 · March 2019

In areas where life-expectancy is very short there's a kind of logic for a lower age of consent than in areas with a longer life expectancy.

In ISIL regions I'd hazard a guess people don't live as long as in the UK.

mr_goo · March 2019

john80 wrote:

Do tell me where I have "repeatedly misquoted your words". And in what way. Where have I claimed to have been misquoted? Your words are your words and I have just used the quote button; they condemn you without any input from myself. I was talking about misinterpretation which is an entirely different thing but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's really no hope is there?

Incidentally, what words are you happy with in the circumstances of Shamima and her husband? I think you are one of those who complains that Begum comes across as not repentant enough yet if her husband says he is repentant (ie disillusioned just in case you get stroppy again over me misquoting you!) then you complain about that too. It really does confirm that you don't believe in innocence til proven guilty doesn't it?

PS I'm not American so I don't "Go figure"

I listened to her husbands interview. He does not see a problem in marrying a 15 year old as apparently it was her choice. He does not seem to be the dimmest character so I will assume that he knows that this is both illegal in the UK and Holland and there is good reasons for these laws. In fact the legal age is 18 in Holland unless you can get the consent of the minister of justice and the parents which I can't imagine is common. Now if we look at the Yasidi sex slaves then around 12 seems OK from a ISIS point of view for a bride which is basically religious supported paedophilia.

He does not see a problem with joining a terrorist organisation and killing people presumably regarded as infidels as even the dumbest moron would realise that is what joining ISIS would entail. He appears to have taken part or witnessed a stoning of a woman accused of infidelity. But the good news is they stopped when she ran away. Good to see there is some honour in the practice of stoning. He then only seems to have a problem with this when ISIS apparently locked him up and tortured him. Only then does he realise he has taken for granted the freedoms of a western culture. If I was a prisoner of the Syrian forces I would be saying all this stuff to try to get me off whatever penalties the Syrian authorities are willing to dish out and maximise my chances of returning to Holland. Self interest is very much running in this case. Have you ever considered that he might be lying about ISIS locking him up to gain a bit more sympathy.

I have corrected your misrepresentation of my use of human on two occasions but yet you are still pushing a racist agenda. Its not racist to expect western citizens to comply with norms of western society whether in their home western culture or abroad its just common sense. He might wish for his family life to be returned but holding him in Syria with Holland doing very little to assist his return suits all western governments as a warning to all those who think that leaving your home country to join a terrorist organisation is a good idea. Both he and his illegal wife can be the poster peeps of consequence. This for all the moral hand ringing on here is worth something even if people cannot admit it.[/quote]

A well reasoned and cogent assessment of the situation that 99.9% of western civilians would agree with in the most part. Unfortunately John you are arguing with the 0.1% who don't see it that way and they all ride carbon or titanium road bikes and have degrees in sociology and politics. They are always right, you should know that.
Don't waste your time or energy trying to fight your corner. You'll get accused of being narrow minded, right wing and racist as I have constantly found out.
At least you haven't had text altered and requoted.
Just make your point known and move on.

rjsterry · March 2019

Mr Goo wrote:

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Do tell me where I have "repeatedly misquoted your words". And in what way. Where have I claimed to have been misquoted? Your words are your words and I have just used the quote button; they condemn you without any input from myself. I was talking about misinterpretation which is an entirely different thing but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's really no hope is there?

Incidentally, what words are you happy with in the circumstances of Shamima and her husband? I think you are one of those who complains that Begum comes across as not repentant enough yet if her husband says he is repentant (ie disillusioned just in case you get stroppy again over me misquoting you!) then you complain about that too. It really does confirm that you don't believe in innocence til proven guilty doesn't it?

PS I'm not American so I don't "Go figure"

I listened to her husbands interview. He does not see a problem in marrying a 15 year old as apparently it was her choice. He does not seem to be the dimmest character so I will assume that he knows that this is both illegal in the UK and Holland and there is good reasons for these laws. In fact the legal age is 18 in Holland unless you can get the consent of the minister of justice and the parents which I can't imagine is common. Now if we look at the Yasidi sex slaves then around 12 seems OK from a ISIS point of view for a bride which is basically religious supported paedophilia.

He does not see a problem with joining a terrorist organisation and killing people presumably regarded as infidels as even the dumbest moron would realise that is what joining ISIS would entail. He appears to have taken part or witnessed a stoning of a woman accused of infidelity. But the good news is they stopped when she ran away. Good to see there is some honour in the practice of stoning. He then only seems to have a problem with this when ISIS apparently locked him up and tortured him. Only then does he realise he has taken for granted the freedoms of a western culture. If I was a prisoner of the Syrian forces I would be saying all this stuff to try to get me off whatever penalties the Syrian authorities are willing to dish out and maximise my chances of returning to Holland. Self interest is very much running in this case. Have you ever considered that he might be lying about ISIS locking him up to gain a bit more sympathy.

I have corrected your misrepresentation of my use of human on two occasions but yet you are still pushing a racist agenda. Its not racist to expect western citizens to comply with norms of western society whether in their home western culture or abroad its just common sense. He might wish for his family life to be returned but holding him in Syria with Holland doing very little to assist his return suits all western governments as a warning to all those who think that leaving your home country to join a terrorist organisation is a good idea. Both he and his illegal wife can be the poster peeps of consequence. This for all the moral hand ringing on here is worth something even if people cannot admit it.

A well reasoned and cogent assessment of the situation that 99.9% of western civilians would agree with in the most part. Unfortunately John you are arguing with the 0.1% who don't see it that way and they all ride carbon or titanium road bikes and have degrees in sociology and politics. They are always right, you should know that.
Don't waste your time or energy trying to fight your corner. You'll get accused of being narrow minded, right wing and racist as I have constantly found out.
At least you haven't had text altered and requoted.
Just make your point known and move on.

Comedy gold. Thanks for that, Goo.

shirley_basso · March 2019

You have to separate what you personally want with the reality of a) what that actually means and b) what is reasonable.

Leaving someone to die with a newborn baby in a war torn hellhole with no chance of retribution is a pretty disgusting wish on someone and we have to be grateful that there are laws in place, drafted by people with intellect and empathy to stop politicians pandering to outspoken racists.

Alejandrosdog · March 2019

Thats not racist Shirley, in fact calling it such is the sort of liberal crowd appealing behaviour youre complaining about.

The discrimination about her is for the most part because of what shes done, that she has no empathy and because she's got a entitled approach. In case youd forgotten she joined and continues to support an organisation dedicated to overthrowing western civilisation that bombs little girls who are on a trip to a concert, that chucks homosexuals off roof tops and stones women for actual or perceived slights.

Behaviour like that moves people beyond the norms of western civilisation. We owe her nothing.

morstar · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

We owe her nothing.

Agreed. But if she either turns up on our doorstep or the country she is in repatriates her...
She is our responsibility.

Made in Britain whether you, I, or anybody else likes it or not. There is no justification to palm her off on Bangladesh who had nothing to do with her upbringing.

shirley_basso · March 2019

Indeed, but in wishing her to stay and rot and die where she is with her child is also pretty barbaric.

The western world sort-of works because we have infrastructure to deal with criminals and terrorists. Now it is far from perfect and I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but if she wants to come home, as far as I am aware, she is currently welcome to do so, if she can get herself here. Then she would likely be arrested, charged, interviewed incarcerated and her child confiscated.

She is our responsibility, unfortunately.

Dare I venture down the road of whataboutery -

Let's say you and your wife divorced while she was pregnant with your child and you remained estranged and never spoke to the mother or baby. If that child then brutally murdered someone on account of race in cold blood having previously exhibited some violent, racist behavior, but the mother did nothing about it when she had the chance.

After the murder took place, she then said 'nothing to do with me, it's the dad's problem, she's his responsibility too, you know'

rick_chasey · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Thats not racist Shirley, in fact calling it such is the sort of liberal crowd appealing behaviour youre complaining about.

The discrimination about her is for the most part because of what shes done, that she has no empathy and because she's got a entitled approach. In case youd forgotten she joined and continues to support an organisation dedicated to overthrowing western civilisation that bombs little girls who are on a trip to a concert, that chucks homosexuals off roof tops and stones women for actual or perceived slights.

.

Strictly speaking you don't know that, and the way UK justice works is that there would have to be a prosecution and subsequent trial to establish that.

At which point the UK would presumably dish out its justice as agreed by the rules which govern the land and its citizens.

I don't know why suddenly everyone's coming up with their own style of justice for this particular individual.

surrey_commuter · March 2019

rjsterry wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

john80 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Do tell me where I have "repeatedly misquoted your words". And in what way. Where have I claimed to have been misquoted? Your words are your words and I have just used the quote button; they condemn you without any input from myself. I was talking about misinterpretation which is an entirely different thing but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's really no hope is there?

Incidentally, what words are you happy with in the circumstances of Shamima and her husband? I think you are one of those who complains that Begum comes across as not repentant enough yet if her husband says he is repentant (ie disillusioned just in case you get stroppy again over me misquoting you!) then you complain about that too. It really does confirm that you don't believe in innocence til proven guilty doesn't it?

PS I'm not American so I don't "Go figure"

I listened to her husbands interview. He does not see a problem in marrying a 15 year old as apparently it was her choice. He does not seem to be the dimmest character so I will assume that he knows that this is both illegal in the UK and Holland and there is good reasons for these laws. In fact the legal age is 18 in Holland unless you can get the consent of the minister of justice and the parents which I can't imagine is common. Now if we look at the Yasidi sex slaves then around 12 seems OK from a ISIS point of view for a bride which is basically religious supported paedophilia.

He does not see a problem with joining a terrorist organisation and killing people presumably regarded as infidels as even the dumbest moron would realise that is what joining ISIS would entail. He appears to have taken part or witnessed a stoning of a woman accused of infidelity. But the good news is they stopped when she ran away. Good to see there is some honour in the practice of stoning. He then only seems to have a problem with this when ISIS apparently locked him up and tortured him. Only then does he realise he has taken for granted the freedoms of a western culture. If I was a prisoner of the Syrian forces I would be saying all this stuff to try to get me off whatever penalties the Syrian authorities are willing to dish out and maximise my chances of returning to Holland. Self interest is very much running in this case. Have you ever considered that he might be lying about ISIS locking him up to gain a bit more sympathy.

I have corrected your misrepresentation of my use of human on two occasions but yet you are still pushing a racist agenda. Its not racist to expect western citizens to comply with norms of western society whether in their home western culture or abroad its just common sense. He might wish for his family life to be returned but holding him in Syria with Holland doing very little to assist his return suits all western governments as a warning to all those who think that leaving your home country to join a terrorist organisation is a good idea. Both he and his illegal wife can be the poster peeps of consequence. This for all the moral hand ringing on here is worth something even if people cannot admit it.

A well reasoned and cogent assessment of the situation that 99.9% of western civilians would agree with in the most part. Unfortunately John you are arguing with the 0.1% who don't see it that way and they all ride carbon or titanium road bikes and have degrees in sociology and politics. They are always right, you should know that.
Don't waste your time or energy trying to fight your corner. You'll get accused of being narrow minded, right wing and racist as I have constantly found out.
At least you haven't had text altered and requoted.
Just make your point known and move on.

Comedy gold. Thanks for that, Goo.

If he wanted that section in bold he would have done it himself. On his behalf I demand an apology by 6pm or he will be forced to tell somebody.

Alejandrosdog · March 2019

what has that do do with this case? if people in this country commit murder they are hopefully tried and convicted. Shes not even a british citizen.

Shes an unrepentant ISIS terrorist. She's made her bed, let her lie in it.

rick_chasey · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Shes not even a british citizen.

.

Eh?

Alejandrosdog · March 2019

Rick Chasey wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Thats not racist Shirley, in fact calling it such is the sort of liberal crowd appealing behaviour youre complaining about.

The discrimination about her is for the most part because of what shes done, that she has no empathy and because she's got a entitled approach. In case youd forgotten she joined and continues to support an organisation dedicated to overthrowing western civilisation that bombs little girls who are on a trip to a concert, that chucks homosexuals off roof tops and stones women for actual or perceived slights.

.

Strictly speaking you don't know that, and the way UK justice works is that there would have to be a prosecution and subsequent trial to establish that.

At which point the UK would presumably dish out its justice as agreed by the rules which govern the land and its citizens.

I don't know why suddenly everyone's coming up with their own style of justice for this particular individual.

Strictly speaking, we do know that, she's said as much, repeatedly. her husband has said as much. there are no denials, no plausible excuses or mitigating circumstances. All the justice system would do is establish what if any tariff there should be. before during and after that there will be a huge bill to keep her alive. Money which could be better spent else where.

As for ISIS we know they are guilty of all these things, they revel in it and the handwringing and whataboutery.

Anyway the good news is she's not British, shes just a terrorist. Good riddance

rick_chasey · March 2019

What have you been smoking?

rjsterry · March 2019

Again, everyone is obsessing over one teenager without the nous to present a more sympathetic face when interviewed by Sky News. The idea that she is some significant figure in all of this is laughable. She's just one idiot out of tens of thousands that left Europe and the idea that they can all be dealt with by Syria - which isn't even in control of itself - is ridiculous and dangerous. Thinking they can be detained in Syria is like expecting a sieve to hold water. Those that don't die in Baghuz are far more likely to find their way out of Syria and back to Europe, than anywhere else. And then they will make themselves our problem.

Alejandrosdog · March 2019

Rick Chasey wrote:

What have you been smoking?

you dont believe she went to join a proscribed terrorist organisation?

you dont believe she justified the bombing of the Manchester Arena?

you dont believe she would cost a lot of money to support

you dont believe that ISIS want a global caliphate?

I sometimes dont get people on here, I can only assume theyre trolling.

Alejandrosdog · March 2019

rjsterry wrote:

Again, everyone is obsessing over one teenager without the nous to present a more sympathetic face when interviewed by Sky News. The idea that she is some significant figure in all of this is laughable. She's just one idiot out of tens of thousands that left Europe and the idea that they can all be dealt with by Syria - which isn't even in control of itself - is ridiculous and dangerous. Thinking they can be detained in Syria is like expecting a sieve to hold water. Those that don't die in Baghuz are far more likely to find their way out of Syria and back to Europe, than anywhere else. And then they will make themselves our problem.

Exactly, but one less is good news

rick_chasey · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What have you been smoking?

you dont believe she went to join a proscribed terrorist organisation?

you dont believe she justified the bombing of the Manchester Arena?

you dont believe she would cost a lot of money to support

you dont believe that ISIS want a global caliphate?

I sometimes dont get people on here, I can only assume theyre trolling.

It doesn't really matter what I think mate.

That's the point. It's not up to me, nor up to you.

We have a system in place. This isn't mob rule - which is entirely what you're proposing.

If we did the UK would end up materially closer on the 'justice' spectrum to ISIS . The whole point is that we have a judicary system which handles these and it is, rightly, not up to the mob to decide on people's fate.

IT's a non-issue. If she wants to return, go ahead - she'll get prosecuted and if she's found to have done bad sh!t she'll go to jail. That way she also can't be a terrorist in the future, as she'll be in jail.

rjsterry · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Again, everyone is obsessing over one teenager without the nous to present a more sympathetic face when interviewed by Sky News. The idea that she is some significant figure in all of this is laughable. She's just one idiot out of tens of thousands that left Europe and the idea that they can all be dealt with by Syria - which isn't even in control of itself - is ridiculous and dangerous. Thinking they can be detained in Syria is like expecting a sieve to hold water. Those that don't die in Baghuz are far more likely to find their way out of Syria and back to Europe, than anywhere else. And then they will make themselves our problem.

Exactly, but one less is good news

By just leaving her there she's not one less. She's one more we've lost track of. She didn't need her passport to get to Syria, I doubt the lack of one would stop her if she tried to get back with malign intent.

shirley_basso · March 2019

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What have you been smoking?

you dont believe she went to join a proscribed terrorist organisation?

you dont believe she justified the bombing of the Manchester Arena?

you dont believe she would cost a lot of money to support

you dont believe that ISIS want a global caliphate?

I sometimes dont get people on here, I can only assume theyre trolling.

Has she had citizenship revoked?

It doesn't matter what we think or believe. Justice isn't decided by the mob which is why it works, because typically the most shouty are often the most wrong.

Wife of ISIS fighter wants to return to the UK

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