Wife of ISIS fighter wants to return to the UK

haydenm

I shouldn't need to spend my time protesting just to pressure the UK to follow its own laws.

rolf_f

john80 wrote:

At the end of the day if she gets back to Britain then the UK will have a hard time getting rid of her as Bangladesh will not accept her and a case will be made that Syria is not a safe place for her but I don't share your view that we should facilitate her return in any way.

You keep going on about "facilitating her return" as though that people are actually expressing that as their desired outcome. Has anyone actually said that they want the UK to facilitate her return (at least until the point she gets to a British Embassy)? It's one thing to facilitate something - something else entirely to obstruct something.

And as for the UK having a "hard time getting rid of her" - well, she is a British Citizen. Not a Bangladeshi citizen. Why would you think it a good idea for it to be easy for the Govt to "get rid of British citizens"? Have you thought about the consequences of that? Trying to recall the last person in Western Europe who made a good stab at getting rid of citizens because he didn't like them.....

And note this from the imbecile Javid - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/27/sajid-javid-difficult-to-strip-shamima-begum-of-uk-citizenship

So after opening his ignorant mouth last week without actually bothering to check the facts that everybody else seemed to know now he is telling Parliament that the thing he said he definitely could do based on a Trumpian "well, I'll get some political browny points from the more stupid and bigoted end of my fan base if I say what they want to hear irrespective of what the law says because I am great" mindset is actually a load of tripe and he hasn't even got the strength of character to admit he was wrong. It almost reads like the whole idea came from someone else and he is the voice of reluctant reason sadly saying it can't be done. Knob.

john80

We could do what the US want and take back El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey who have both been stripped of their UK citizenship. The only slight issue is that these two suspected of being 2 of the group beheading people called the Beatles have been reviewed and the CPS don't think their is sufficient evidence to charge them. Kind of questions how good those return interviews are going to be working out if we reverse our decision and let them return given all the Beatles had to do was to cover their faces when executing people to escape prosecution. The only silver lining in this is that the US may will use their legal system to deal with these two. I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

rolf_f

john80 wrote:

I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

Well in that case best just execute all Syrians just to make sure.

john80 wrote:

I will be clear if a human being had done what Shamina Begum has done then I would be taking the same view. The ethnicity or religion of the person is irrelevant. She has supported and organisation that has breached a large number of UK laws and values.

So, she isn't human and you regard her breaking laws as adequate justification for the UK itself to break its own laws? Honestly, you should look a bit closer to home when talking about people breaching UK values.......

john80

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

At the end of the day if she gets back to Britain then the UK will have a hard time getting rid of her as Bangladesh will not accept her and a case will be made that Syria is not a safe place for her but I don't share your view that we should facilitate her return in any way.

You keep going on about "facilitating her return" as though that people are actually expressing that as their desired outcome. Has anyone actually said that they want the UK to facilitate her return (at least until the point she gets to a British Embassy)? It's one thing to facilitate something - something else entirely to obstruct something.

And as for the UK having a "hard time getting rid of her" - well, she is a British Citizen. Not a Bangladeshi citizen. Why would you think it a good idea for it to be easy for the Govt to "get rid of British citizens"? Have you thought about the consequences of that? Trying to recall the last person in Western Europe who made a good stab at getting rid of citizens because he didn't like them.....

And note this from the imbecile Javid - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/27/sajid-javid-difficult-to-strip-shamima-begum-of-uk-citizenship

So after opening his ignorant mouth last week without actually bothering to check the facts that everybody else seemed to know now he is telling Parliament that the thing he said he definitely could do based on a Trumpian "well, I'll get some political browny points from the more stupid and bigoted end of my fan base if I say what they want to hear irrespective of what the law says because I am great" mindset is actually a load of tripe and he hasn't even got the strength of character to admit he was wrong. It almost reads like the whole idea came from someone else and he is the voice of reluctant reason sadly saying it can't be done. Knob.

Comparing the Jewish community to ISIS foreign fighters or supporters are we. Are you sure that is a historically accurate equivalent. With my basic history knowledge I am not sure Hitler did his actions in response to the Jewish community running riot and executing Germans on religious or ethnicity grounds in the streets. The article is based on a response to other MP's questioning. The reality is that government lawyers have looked at the case and decided due to the technicality that she has Bangladeshi citizenship till she is 21 therefore she is not stateless. This is what he says in his response and therefore it is now a court issue where she can appeal. You should note that the government has tried this before and failed as the two males were over 21. You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

john80

Rolf F wrote:

john80 wrote:

I am all for innocent till proven guilty but this only works on the basis you have full access to the crime scene and witnesses which we clearly don't in Syria.

Well in that case best just execute all Syrians just to make sure.

john80 wrote:

I will be clear if a human being had done what Shamina Begum has done then I would be taking the same view. The ethnicity or religion of the person is irrelevant. She has supported and organisation that has breached a large number of UK laws and values.

So, she isn't human and you regard her breaking laws as adequate justification for the UK itself to break its own laws? Honestly, you should look a bit closer to home when talking about people breaching UK values.......

Given the majority of the Syrian population did not want to be ethnically cleansed by a group of mentalists that seems a bit racist to execute them all if I am being honest. You do realise that human is everyone regardless of race. Not sure how you concluded that I thought she was not human from the above post as she looks very much like a human being and all scientific evidence would also point to that conclusion. We will only know for sure if UK has broken its own laws when an appeal is held assuming that her family raise this. The minister has been quite clear in that he is following legal advice and whilst I don't doubt that the lawyers were instructed to research what laws could be used to achieve the aim I am not sure how this breaks with normal practice. Everyone who seeks legal advice sets our with an aim and asks if that aim can be achieved.

robert88

Shamima Begum: 'We should live in Holland' says IS husband

Although Riedijk is on a terrorism watch list, his Dutch citizenship has not been revoked.

morstar

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

robert88

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. ..

Semantically she can't and physically she probably wouldn't be admitted by the Bangaladesh authorities who have less reason to admit her than our own.

It's possible Britain might feel it has leverage over Bangladesh but that's as big an illusion as Graylings attempt to strong-arm Eurotunnel. Our place in the world post-brexit is being established.

Interesting to see if the Dutch decide to seize the moral high ground and admit both her and her husband.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... etherlands

morstar

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. ..

Semantically she can't and physically she probably wouldn't be admitted by the Bangaladesh authorities who have less reason to admit her than our own.

It's possible Britain might feel it has leverage over Bangladesh but that's as big an illusion as Graylings attempt to strong-arm Eurotunnel. Our place in the world post-brexit is being established.

Interesting to see if the Dutch decide to seize the moral high ground and admit both her and her husband.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... etherlands

Interestingly, I saw the BBC report on the news this morning. The interviewer was talking to the studio about the interview and said how the husband purports to want to live a normal, moderate life as a muslim in Holland. He then basically said, 'but he would say that wouldn't he. That's what they all say.'
Much as we might all think that, it's unusual to say that at then end of the report. It suggests to me that the interviewer was either trying to say, 'look, I have to report objectively and this is the closest I can get to saying I don't believe him'. Or more worryingly, it is appealing to populism creeping into reporting.

Stevo_666

He's hardly likely to say 'Well I killed loads of people and beheaded a few, but what goes on tour stays on tour so let me just come back and just get on with my life' is he? Let's see what the Dutch do, it'll be interesting what some people say if they do as we have and try to deny them entry.

morstar

Stevo 666 wrote:

He's hardly likely to say 'Well I killed loads of people and beheaded a few, but what goes on tour stays on tour so let me just come back and just get on with my life' is he?

That's my point. We all think that but it is unusual for the reporter to allude to that imho. And as we know, this is where the subject of the thread went wrong in not doing so.

Stevo 666 wrote:

Let's see what the Dutch do, it'll be interesting what some people say if they do as we have and try to deny them entry.

You may or may not be referring to me here. But where should these people end up if not in the nations they came from? I have no desire to use resources repatriating her but if she makes her own way back or the state she is currently inconveniencing says she's your problem, here you go, on what grounds can we say no? The logical outcome of everybody refusing to deal with them is execution.

Stevo_666

Not referring to you, but there is a train of 'thought' on here that anything the UK does is automatically wrong, whereas our esteemed EU partners are apparently completely incapable of doing so. So will be interesting to see the reaction if we and the Netherlands take the same stance.

mr_goo

Gonna whip up the ire of lots on here. But what about using some of the uninhabited islands north of Scotland. Drop them in by helicopter. Leave them some timber and supplies to build shelter. A few chickens and sheep and bags of seed to grow veg. Gotta be a good outcome for all concerned with the conscience of the liberal eased in that they are proveded for. And the hardliners happy that they're isolated and can do no damage.

morstar

Mr Goo wrote:

Gonna whip up the ire of lots on here. But what about using some of the uninhabited islands north of Scotland. Drop them in by helicopter. Leave them some timber and supplies to build shelter. A few chickens and sheep and bags of seed to grow veg. Gotta be a good outcome for all concerned with the conscience of the liberal eased in that they are proveded for. And the hardliners happy that they're isolated and can do no damage.

Australia.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Not referring to you, but there is a train of 'thought' on here that anything the UK does is automatically wrong, whereas our esteemed EU partners are apparently completely incapable of doing so. So will be interesting to see the reaction if we and the Netherlands take the same stance.

Go have a look at the discussion earlier in the thread on Dutch immigration policy.

Page 4

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Not referring to you, but there is a train of 'thought' on here that anything the UK does is automatically wrong, whereas our esteemed EU partners are apparently completely incapable of doing so. So will be interesting to see the reaction if we and the Netherlands take the same stance.

Go have a look at the discussion earlier in the thread on Dutch immigration policy.

Page 4

Not sure if there was anything on their policy but I saw the comments on their approach and attitude. Same likely end result. I don't think they're about to be duped by a sudden bout of 'want to come home' remorse from an IS fighter just as the final bits of IS are getting kicked out of Syria.

Ben6899

morstar wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. ..

Semantically she can't and physically she probably wouldn't be admitted by the Bangaladesh authorities who have less reason to admit her than our own.

It's possible Britain might feel it has leverage over Bangladesh but that's as big an illusion as Graylings attempt to strong-arm Eurotunnel. Our place in the world post-brexit is being established.

Interesting to see if the Dutch decide to seize the moral high ground and admit both her and her husband.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... etherlands

Interestingly, I saw the BBC report on the news this morning. The interviewer was talking to the studio about the interview and said how the husband purports to want to live a normal, moderate life as a muslim in Holland. He then basically said, 'but he would say that wouldn't he. That's what they all say.'
Much as we might all think that, it's unusual to say that at then end of the report. It suggests to me that the interviewer was either trying to say, 'look, I have to report objectively and this is the closest I can get to saying I don't believe him'. Or more worryingly, it is appealing to populism creeping into reporting.

Effectively, the reporter is presenting facts.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Not referring to you, but there is a train of 'thought' on here that anything the UK does is automatically wrong, whereas our esteemed EU partners are apparently completely incapable of doing so. So will be interesting to see the reaction if we and the Netherlands take the same stance.

It's a much bigger issue than Begum and her husband. Hundreds of Europeans travelled to Syria to join IS or similar and many have already returned. It's something to which we (UK and other European governments and security services) are going to have to formulate a coordinated response. Pretending it is someone else's problem is likely to come back and bite us.

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

He's hardly likely to say 'Well I killed loads of people and beheaded a few, but what goes on tour stays on tour so let me just come back and just get on with my life' is he? Let's see what the Dutch do, it'll be interesting what some people say if they do as we have and try to deny them entry.

If I was Dutch I would be asking why we want the paedo to bring his child bride back with him. Maybe they could Al Capone him.

Stevo_666

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

He's hardly likely to say 'Well I killed loads of people and beheaded a few, but what goes on tour stays on tour so let me just come back and just get on with my life' is he? Let's see what the Dutch do, it'll be interesting what some people say if they do as we have and try to deny them entry.

If I was Dutch I would be asking why we want the paedo to bring his child bride back with him. Maybe they could Al Capone him.

Doubt they can do him for tax evasion as he probably earned sweet FA. If he is going to get done for relations with a minor, then he might not be too keen on coming back to Europe as he won't be the most popular bloke behind bars.

ballysmate

His problem might be that he would be THE most popular bloke in there.

Stevo_666

Ballysmate wrote:

His problem might be that he would be THE most popular bloke in there.

Maybe we should take the 'moral high ground' and extend an invite then

Alejandrosdog

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

No she’s not properly British because she doesn’t hold a British passport. the reason she now no longer holds a British passport was in part because she’s from an immigrant family. That’s not racism, its merely convenient. The the other part of the reason she’s not British is entirely due to her own murderous actions.

I hope she dies in great pain, frightened and alone next to the rotting corpse of her husband.

I also worry that said husband might very well have helped her out by openly describing her as the victim of a Paedophile marriage. Something to strengthen its case that she wasn’t an adult / consenting when she left.

surrey_commuter

Alejandrosdog wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

No she’s not properly British because she doesn’t hold a British passport. the reason she now no longer holds a British passport was in part because she’s from an immigrant family. That’s not racism, its merely convenient. The the other part of the reason she’s not British is entirely due to her own murderous actions.

I hope she dies in great pain, frightened and alone next to the rotting corpse of her husband.

I also worry that said husband might very well have helped her out by openly describing her as the victim of a Paedophile marriage. Something to strengthen its case that she wasn’t an adult / consenting when she left.

Why do you hope that?

Alejandrosdog

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

No she’s not properly British because she doesn’t hold a British passport. the reason she now no longer holds a British passport was in part because she’s from an immigrant family. That’s not racism, its merely convenient. The the other part of the reason she’s not British is entirely due to her own murderous actions.

I hope she dies in great pain, frightened and alone next to the rotting corpse of her husband.

I also worry that said husband might very well have helped her out by openly describing her as the victim of a Paedophile marriage. Something to strengthen its case that she wasn’t an adult / consenting when she left.

Why do you hope that?

In the hope that she can do some good for this country by giving others pause to think before they do something stupid. And because it gives me pleasure.

surrey_commuter

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

No she’s not properly British because she doesn’t hold a British passport. the reason she now no longer holds a British passport was in part because she’s from an immigrant family. That’s not racism, its merely convenient. The the other part of the reason she’s not British is entirely due to her own murderous actions.

I hope she dies in great pain, frightened and alone next to the rotting corpse of her husband.

I also worry that said husband might very well have helped her out by openly describing her as the victim of a Paedophile marriage. Something to strengthen its case that she wasn’t an adult / consenting when she left.

Why do you hope that?

In the hope that she can do some good for this country by giving others pause to think before they do something stupid. And because it gives me pleasure.

I wonder how many watch lists you are on? Maybe there is a cheaper solution

robert88

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

morstar wrote:

john80 wrote:

You should also note that if Shamima Begum did manage to make it to Bangladesh then I would doubt that the government would be able to stop her return due to their own rules.

Interesting that she can return to somewhere she's never been. That's the issue with us trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, there is no legitimate argument that she belongs there more than Britain.
Like it or not, she's British, if she can get back here, she is our problem to deal with.
Thinking of her as anything less than British is thinly veiled, 'well she's not really properly British because she's from an immigrant family' racism.

No she’s not properly British because she doesn’t hold a British passport. the reason she now no longer holds a British passport was in part because she’s from an immigrant family. That’s not racism, its merely convenient. The the other part of the reason she’s not British is entirely due to her own murderous actions.

I hope she dies in great pain, frightened and alone next to the rotting corpse of her husband.

I also worry that said husband might very well have helped her out by openly describing her as the victim of a Paedophile marriage. Something to strengthen its case that she wasn’t an adult / consenting when she left.

Why do you hope that?

In the hope that she can do some good for this country by giving others pause to think before they do something stupid. And because it gives me pleasure.

I wonder how many watch lists you are on? Maybe there is a cheaper solution

We are each and every one on numerous 'watch lists'.

As you should know.

Alejandrosdog

Yes I’m on the watch list that’s for people who would rather these terrorists died in Syria watchlist.

robert88

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Yes I’m on the watch list that’s for people who would rather these terrorists died in Syria watchlist.

Simplistically speaking.