Freeman Medical Practitioner Tribunal .Manchester

awavey

ddraver said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting you rub the gel on yer willy to make it work...or put a patch on it for that matter...

yeah but the bit of the body that produces natural testosterone in men, and the clue where that is really is in the name on that one, isnt anywhere near your shoulders, I didnt expect it to be like some kind of Vicks vaporub

RichN95.

Has anyone officially in the case said that the Member for Sutton had not achieved a majority. Or is that just tabloid embellishment and childish male humour (guilty your honour). It's used for general well being in older men, and I have seen someone (yes twitter) say that the NHS guidelines are out of date.

ddraver

awavey said:

ddraver said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting you rub the gel on yer willy to make it work...or put a patch on it for that matter...

yeah but the bit of the body that produces natural testosterone in men, and the clue where that is really is in the name on that one, isnt anywhere near your shoulders, I didnt expect it to be like some kind of Vicks vaporub

The briefest amount of knowledge I have on this - them two links up thread - suggests it is absorbed through the skin. In that case, I guess, where else is better to rub it?

It does not appear to be a topical application

rick_chasey

I feel like this is a doping scandal for people who missed out on the bad ol' noughties scandals and are desperate to have that kind of excitement.

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

I feel like this is a doping scandal for people who missed out on the bad ol' noughties scandals and are desperate to have that kind of excitement.

I've said many times that for many Sky are a proxy for Armstrong/US Postal

orraloon

Caught the back end of Roaneo, Roaneo, whyfore art thou still banging on? on BBC R4 on the 7.30 sports bulletin this morning, desperately trying to make connections to a cyclist and cycling in general. Cannot be arrised to go back and listen to full spiel, that man is getting so tedious.

salsiccia1

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

I feel like this is a doping scandal for people who missed out on the bad ol' noughties scandals and are desperate to have that kind of excitement.

I've said many times that for many Sky are a proxy for Armstrong/US Postal

Yep. Cycling 'fans' are so radicalised that no-one can be good without being dirty, so any hint of impropriety, however tenuous is taken as absolute copper-bottomed proof. Sky/Ineos are the sons paying for the gross sins of their fathers, and, in fairness some less grievous of their own.

slowbike

RichN95. said:

slowbike said:

Look at the charges - it was patches not the gel - not looked at how long they take to work - but you’d know if you’re sticking a patch on you.

It says "30 sachets of Testogel"

Ah - one I read said 30 Testogel patches ... ?

Pross

orraloon said:

Caught the back end of Roaneo, Roaneo, whyfore art thou still banging on? on BBC R4 on the 7.30 sports bulletin this morning, desperately trying to make connections to a cyclist and cycling in general. Cannot be arrised to go back and listen to full spiel, that man is getting so tedious.

The fact that a sports editor is covering a medical malpractice hearing shows how much he has invested in this conspiracy theory and nothing seems to be coming out of it to back him that there's anything there to do with cyclists at all.

As I said above he's got a bit of a dilemma as he's keen to paint the picture of bully Sutton forcing Freeman to get him the testosterone but if it goes that way it detracts from the narrative of it being a Sky / BC doping programme.

ddraver

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

I feel like this is a doping scandal for people who missed out on the bad ol' noughties scandals and are desperate to have that kind of excitement.

I've said many times that for many Sky are a proxy for Armstrong/US Postal

It's also perfect off-season fodder...

It's like Eastenders but with childish jokes

RichN95.

So Sutton has prescriptions for viagra and cialis. He also has seven children by 3-4 different women. It's the Lance Armstrong of willies.

ddraver

Steve Peters in the chair today

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1194964210947633153?s=20

One suspects this may be a little more sensible

Sean Ingle appears to be following today even though the chances of revealing any juicy details has fallen now. Peters has put a bit more meat on the bones this morning (see Ingle's twitter feed)

jimmythecuckoo

meh, I am starting to lose interest now.

I think there is an air of desperation in proceedings. Make it about the facts and not the personalities.

ddraver

Yeah, it's a lot less salacious today (No wonder Roan has given up). Freeman does seem to have some quite serious issues with himself.

RichN95.

ddraver said:

Yeah, it's a lot less salacious today (No wonder Roan has given up). Freeman does seem to have some quite serious issues with himself.

Next time Roan bangs on about mental health issues in sport let's remember he doorstepped Freeman, someone with serious mental health issues. We can add this onto him forcing Josh Edmondson to give an interview.

huret

I see now why Team Sky never got around to organising a Womens team.

awavey

huret said:

I see now why Team Sky never got around to organising a Womens team.

absolutely been reading this as well this week OT to Freemans tribunal I know so wont labour it, but all told sounds an awfully familiar setup https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2019/11/14/special-report-british-female-athletes-reveal-culture-fat-shaming/

salsiccia1

huret said:

I see now why Team Sky never got around to organising a Womens team.

Thank goodness they didn’t. I know it's pretty common knowledge Sutton is an unpleasant guy, but some of what's coming out is grim stuff. Can you imagine if he was involved with a women's team?

ddraver

On the other hand, many of the women trackies thought he was a great coach and continued using his services even after he was let go by BC pre-Rio...

*Shrugs*

blazing_saddles

ddraver said:

On the other hand, many of the women trackies thought he was a great coach and continued using his services even after he was let go by BC pre-Rio...

*Shrugs*

Absolutely correct.
Much respected, very influential and held in high regard.

awavey

salsiccia1 said:

huret said:

I see now why Team Sky never got around to organising a Womens team.

Thank goodness they didn’t. I know it's pretty common knowledge Sutton is an unpleasant guy, but some of what's coming out is grim stuff. Can you imagine if he was involved with a women's team?

but he was, even overlooking his track cycling involvement, as his various national coaching roles progressed through Welsh cycling and then into British cycling, he was in charge of selection/non selection for the womens national teams for various events on the road, he was also decision maker for Team Halfords which was the prototype British cycling road team before Team Sky came along, and could even over rule the appointed national coach for the womens team if he chose to, like in 2011 when he cancelled their planned training camp ahead of the world champs,then turned up the night before the race and changed the race plan, then blamed the riders when it didnt work.

as Nicole Cooke has said before, when he's supporting you hes a fantastic ally to have (hence the he's a great guy really side that some experience), but when he's not its completely the reverse situation to be in (hence the opposing views)

if youve never encountered someone like that in your working life who behaves in that way, then you have probably been quite fortunate

DeVlaeminck

awavey said:

huret said:

I see now why Team Sky never got around to organising a Womens team.

absolutely been reading this as well this week OT to Freemans tribunal I know so wont labour it, but all told sounds an awfully familiar setup https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2019/11/14/special-report-british-female-athletes-reveal-culture-fat-shaming/

Interesting article and it does present both sides with Kelly Sotherton implying that at least sometimes the athlete is taking offence too easily. The differences between coaching men and women is an interesting topic - with the caveat individuals don't all follow simple gender norms. My female footy team admonished me once for describing an opposition full back as "a bit of a unit" - I meant it as a compliment!!

top_bhoy

After what is being witnessed at this Tribunal, does anyone still believe that Sutton didn't go tell Jess Varnish to 'go have a baby' and all the other complaints made? Its becoming more evident as it continues that the British Cycling review into Jess Varnish complaints was either a whitewash and cover-up or it was all too easy for the review panel to accept lies as being the truth.

The evidence is out there that Sutton is an out and out bully. Whilst I don't expect anyone to do so, Jess Varnish is owed an apology from British Cycling and an acceptance that she was a victim of Sutton's bullying and sexist behaviour.

ddraver

The problems remain the same...

Is it bullying to tell an athlete in a sport which pretty much entirely comes down to a power/weight ratio that they need to be lighter?

Does/did the program exist to win gold medals or was it a charity for riders who could finish 4th or 5th to travel the velodromes of the world?

Sutton's methods are brash, aggressive and bear little care for hurt feelings. They have also produced some of the very best cyclists of both sexes, of the era across road and track at the cost of some of the less talented being cut away. Is that a fair price?

Only you can answer that

RichN95.

I notice today that the football journalists have started to move away from the story. The copy is being written by the second string writers. Maybe a sense of where they thing this is going.

Matt Lawton seems to have lost interest, Roan has passed it onto his deputy and moved onto athletics sponsorship, Sean Ingle isn't live tweeting any more. This isn't the behaviour of tabloid journalists that smell blood in the water.

They've had their 'explosive revelations', they don't want it sullied by facts.

blazing_saddles

top_bhoy said:

After what is being witnessed at this Tribunal, does anyone still believe that Sutton didn't go tell Jess Varnish to 'go have a baby' and all the other complaints made? Its becoming more evident as it continues that the British Cycling review into Jess Varnish complaints was either a whitewash and cover-up or it was all too easy for the review panel to accept lies as being the truth.

The evidence is out there that Sutton is an out and out bully. Whilst I don't expect anyone to do so, Jess Varnish is owed an apology from British Cycling and an acceptance that she was a victim of Sutton's bullying and sexist behaviour.

Yes me.
The truth here is very far removed from the picture being painted by the media, both professional and social.

Wheelspinner

ddraver said:

The problems remain the same...

Is it bullying to tell an athlete in a sport which pretty much entirely comes down to a power/weight ratio that they need to be lighter?

Does/did the program exist to win gold medals or was it a charity for riders who could finish 4th or 5th to travel the velodromes of the world?

Sutton's methods are brash, aggressive and bear little care for hurt feelings. They have also produced some of the very best cyclists of both sexes, of the era across road and track at the cost of some of the less talented being cut away. Is that a fair price?

Only you can answer that

Interesting that since BC got rid of Sutton in 2016 and the whole period before and after London 2012 is over and done to see what's happened to the track cycling results for Team GB. Even 2016 Rio Games they were dominant, top of the table. This year in Poland, down to 6th on the medal table. I presume there's been funding cuts in that post-Olympic period which has some effect, but doubt it's the sole cause of that dramatic drop. Reckon they'll be back on top in Tokyo?

awavey

Wheelspinner said:

Interesting that since BC got rid of Sutton in 2016 and the whole period before and after London 2012 is over and done to see what's happened to the track cycling results for Team GB. Even 2016 Rio Games they were dominant, top of the table. This year in Poland, down to 6th on the medal table. I presume there's been funding cuts in that post-Olympic period which has some effect, but doubt it's the sole cause of that dramatic drop. Reckon they'll be back on top in Tokyo?

I think if you look at the medal tables for all the WCs/track world cups in between Olympic years even when Sutton was involved, going back to maybe 2008 Manchester as the exception when it looked like they might have peaked too soon, the medal tables are always a "dramatic drop" from the expectation,and the well worn logic that has been presented is they are honed to peak for a 4 year Olympic cycle as their main and frankly only focus.

blazing_saddles

Wheelspinner said:

ddraver said:

The problems remain the same...

Is it bullying to tell an athlete in a sport which pretty much entirely comes down to a power/weight ratio that they need to be lighter?

Does/did the program exist to win gold medals or was it a charity for riders who could finish 4th or 5th to travel the velodromes of the world?

Sutton's methods are brash, aggressive and bear little care for hurt feelings. They have also produced some of the very best cyclists of both sexes, of the era across road and track at the cost of some of the less talented being cut away. Is that a fair price?

Only you can answer that

Interesting that since BC got rid of Sutton in 2016 and the whole period before and after London 2012 is over and done to see what's happened to the track cycling results for Team GB. Even 2016 Rio Games they were dominant, top of the table. This year in Poland, down to 6th on the medal table. I presume there's been funding cuts in that post-Olympic period which has some effect, but doubt it's the sole cause of that dramatic drop. Reckon they'll be back on top in Tokyo?

It was a major complaint that the Aussies came out with, around Rio. They blamed the fact that their funding was based on annual results, instead of the 4-year Olympic period, like the UK.
Funding isn't a problem.
London results meant funding was set at 26 million, up 4 million from Beijing.
Rio funding rose by an almost identical figure to just under 30 million.

https://www.uksport.gov.uk/sports/olympic/cycling

Chris Hoy talked about the slump in women's sprint events since the retirement of Pendleton and our Becky, during last week's World cup in Glasgow. Generally, things do seem to have stagnated at BC, while others, such as the Dutch, Italians and the Danes have made huge strides forward.
Yet it's worth noting that Katy Marchant did win their first individual "world" level title since Becky won her world titles, back in 2013.

So in summation: While I doubt the track team will achieve their huge medal hauls of the past three Olympiad, I expect their results to be better than the intermediary year performances would suggest.

Pross

RichN95. said:

I notice today that the football journalists have started to move away from the story. The copy is being written by the second string writers. Maybe a sense of where they thing this is going.

Matt Lawton seems to have lost interest, Roan has passed it onto his deputy and moved onto athletics sponsorship, Sean Ingle isn't live tweeting any more. This isn't the behaviour of tabloid journalists that smell blood in the water.

They've had their 'explosive revelations', they don't want it sullied by facts.

There's sport going on with a bit of hospitality no doubt. They might be back on Monday when there's no free dinners on offer.