LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    edited May 2023
    I think we'll hear from the Conservatives that Labour haven't done as well as they'd hoped, and that they don't have a big enough lead to win a majority at the election. I'm not sure it's great for them that people have voted for whoever is best placed locally against the Conservative candidates.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,924

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    They all know they are screwed. The question is just by how much.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,477

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    They all know they are screwed. The question is just by how much.
    I am talking on a personal level
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,678

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    I think to unseat the PM you need a clear screw up that they are responsible for. The local elections are merely crystalizing the Tories long term poor polling performance, which is a responsibility that is shared across the party.

    Last year's long, naval gazing leadership contest, at a time when the country was slowly starting to face up to a cost of living crisis was possibly one of the more distasteful things a party could do.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    Jezyboy said:

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    I think to unseat the PM you need a clear screw up that they are responsible for. The local elections are merely crystalizing the Tories long term poor polling performance, which is a responsibility that is shared across the party.

    Last year's long, naval gazing leadership contest, at a time when the country was slowly starting to face up to a cost of living crisis was possibly one of the more distasteful things a party could do.
    Especially since we've ended up with the guy who lost.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,019

    There is a fecking great big table and 2 dispatch boxes in the way. Even Bojo said it was misogynistic nonsense.


    Last time I read anything about Boris on here, he was a liar and was always wrong.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    edited May 2023
    Earth calling Stevo.

    The Sue Gray stuff doesn't seem to have landed.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,628

    Jezyboy said:

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    I think to unseat the PM you need a clear screw up that they are responsible for. The local elections are merely crystalizing the Tories long term poor polling performance, which is a responsibility that is shared across the party.

    Last year's long, naval gazing leadership contest, at a time when the country was slowly starting to face up to a cost of living crisis was possibly one of the more distasteful things a party could do.
    Especially since we've ended up with the guy who lost.
    ...and the person who won lost to a lettuce. 🤣
    © K.Starmer.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    Rishi *is* the hail mary.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,019
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Pleased to see Greg Hands demonstrating that my choice to never vote him in was indeed the correct decision.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Stevo_666 said:
    I agree completely with the article (despite it being a joke) that it is heavily an anti Tory vote rather than necessarily a vote for what the ‘others’ stand for.

    I’m surprised you linked to it though. Some mental gymnastics going on to turn it to a Tory supporters favour. The brand is toxic right now for good reason. Only an idiot can’t see that.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,019
    morstar said:

    Stevo_666 said:
    I agree completely with the article (despite it being a joke) that it is heavily an anti Tory vote rather than necessarily a vote for what the ‘others’ stand for.

    I’m surprised you linked to it though. Some mental gymnastics going on to turn it to a Tory supporters favour. The brand is toxic right now for good reason. Only an idiot can’t see that.
    Whatever, it made me laugh
    The unofficial coalition of Labour, the Lib Dems, Greens and independents known as Anyone But The F**king Tories has made huge gains in local elections.

    The group, which likes to pretend votes are flooding in because of their marvellous policies, has already gained 228 council seats by taking them off those blue bastards.

    A spokesman said: “Officially we don’t exist. Officially people are voting for the Lib Dems because of what they stand for, and we all know what bollocks that is.


    :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    It's true. Almost anyone seems a better option.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,678
    18 percent turnout locally here.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,971

    It's true. Almost anyone seems a better option.


    It's easy satire when you can just write what's happening in reality and it's funny too.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Jezyboy said:

    18 percent turnout locally here.

    Yikes. Is that different to normal? It's 39% here.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,678
    Not abnormal, looking through Wikipedia few local elections ago it was 16!

    Local elections are weird
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,477
    I'd love to see the whiteboard with all the discarded lines before they settled on 'we're haemorrhaging votes to a poor opposition'
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    I think the mental separation councillors make between themselves and the parliamentary party are a bit weird.

    I understand completely that you could be running a council really well despite national policy. But surely that’s no different to running a branch of any national organisation. If your organisation does something toxic, people will choose to not use your branch. Not because of anything you did but because the brand is off.

    You represent that party, that party is being led badly.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,924
    Well now we know why they all removed the party branding from their social media the other day.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    edited May 2023
    Labour loses Slough because they went bankrupt. Still surprised Thurrock stayed blue.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    They need wiping out at the next General Election in the hope that they then re-emerge as a more moderate centre right party with the lunatic fringe consigned to history.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,628
    Pross said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    They need wiping out at the next General Election in the hope that they then re-emerge as a more moderate centre right party with the lunatic fringe consigned to history.
    This is the hope but I fear the opposite might well happen.
    We need a strong opposition as the past xx years without one has shown.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited May 2023

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    Worth remembering that even losing 100 MPs, they are starting with around an 80 MP majority, so labour won't have that big a majority.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190

    morstar said:

    There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.

    If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?

    I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.

    I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
    if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loon
    They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.

    This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.

    The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.
    Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail mary
    Worth remembering that even losing 100 MPs, they are starting with around an 80 MP majority, so labour won't have that big a majority.
    But if 100 Tory seats turn red, that’s a 200 seat swing. A 120 majority.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Quite right. Apols.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    To clarify, the ‘not Tories’ would have a 120 seat majority.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    Look what happens when the "non-Tories" don't get in each others' way in a FPTP system: