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If the turnout above is indicative of the national turnout it is really bad (it was over 35% if the 2021 local elections). Is that people being fed up with politics or an impact of the need for voter ID? I suspect mainly the former.0
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We had one flyer through our door. Seems team blue were not really that interested.Pross said:If the turnout above is indicative of the national turnout it is really bad (it was over 35% if the 2021 local elections). Is that people being fed up with politics or an impact of the need for voter ID? I suspect mainly the former.
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Pross said:
If the turnout above is indicative of the national turnout it is really bad (it was over 35% if the 2021 local elections). Is that people being fed up with politics or an impact of the need for voter ID? I suspect mainly the former.
I'm suspecting true-blue Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote. I'm also suspecting that the voter ID thing actually affected elederly people more than younger voters, so probably didn't have the intended effect of suppressing non-Tory votes.0 -
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surrey_commuter said:
In that case I have changed my mind and think it is truesecretsqirrel said:There is a fecking great big table and 2 dispatch boxes in the way. Even Bojo said it was misogynistic nonsense.
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The Guardian had a draconian-sounding headline about people not being able to vote, but the only two people quoted in the article who hadn't been able to vote had either tried to use ID with a different address to the one where they're registered or had forgotten their ID.briantrumpet said:Pross said:If the turnout above is indicative of the national turnout it is really bad (it was over 35% if the 2021 local elections). Is that people being fed up with politics or an impact of the need for voter ID? I suspect mainly the former.
I'm suspecting true-blue Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote. I'm also suspecting that the voter ID thing actually affected elederly people more than younger voters, so probably didn't have the intended effect of suppressing non-Tory votes.
I'm not a fan - it's fixing a problem that doesn't exist - but equally, my suspicion is that accounts of large-scale disenfranchisement are stories in search of facts to back them up.0 -
Chap from the Electoral Commission seemed to think there was enough of it to warrant further research, although clearly not enough for it's intended purpose 🤨wallace_and_gromit said:
The Guardian had a draconian-sounding headline about people not being able to vote, but the only two people quoted in the article who hadn't been able to vote had either tried to use ID with a different address to the one where they're registered or had forgotten their ID.briantrumpet said:Pross said:If the turnout above is indicative of the national turnout it is really bad (it was over 35% if the 2021 local elections). Is that people being fed up with politics or an impact of the need for voter ID? I suspect mainly the former.
I'm suspecting true-blue Tories couldn't bring themselves to vote. I'm also suspecting that the voter ID thing actually affected elederly people more than younger voters, so probably didn't have the intended effect of suppressing non-Tory votes.
I'm not a fan - it's fixing a problem that doesn't exist - but equally, my suspicion is that accounts of large-scale disenfranchisement are stories in search of facts to back them up.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
“braggadocio” one for the recently learned 😊briantrumpet said:I think the amusement here recently might not quite be in the direction intended.
https://time.com/4449915/donald-trump-i-was-only-joking/
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Haha. Topsham is the truest truest blue, wealthy ward. Which now has two Labour councillors. Kicking deserved and delivered.
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There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1 -
Conservatives hold Thurrock despite losing their leader who stepped up when everything went wrong.0
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Since its a lost cause anyway, I think they should get as many out of the way as they can. In 18 months, they could probably safeguard against future leadership bids by JRM, Baverman and Patel by giving them all a chance to show what they can do.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
The party as a whole would still have Raab lurking, but there are new graduates every year from Eton, so they will probably be able to sweat that one out.0 -
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.0 -
Remember that Hunt will shortly be claiming he beat inflation, roll back some of the unnecessary tax rises and call these tax cuts. That'll balance the polls significantly.0
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I don't think there is much leeway for tax cuts. Will get eaten alive by the bond markets.First.Aspect said:Remember that Hunt will shortly be claiming he beat inflation, roll back some of the unnecessary tax rises and call these tax cuts. That'll balance the polls significantly.
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Most likely true, but I'm sure Hunt will take soundings from those close to the markets to gauge what might be acceptable. This was a apparently another of the Truss/Kwarteng failings. They just winged it, and suffered a double whammy from the markets - a genuine penalty for the un-costed elements of the "fiscal event" and a kick in the nadgers penalty for having the temerity to ignore the markets.rick_chasey said:
I don't think there is much leeway for tax cuts. Will get eaten alive by the bond markets.First.Aspect said:Remember that Hunt will shortly be claiming he beat inflation, roll back some of the unnecessary tax rises and call these tax cuts. That'll balance the polls significantly.
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Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-65487770
Those woke lefties from Windsor!0 -
"ignore" is the wrong word as one of their core beliefs is that is you have a sovereign currency that you can borrow as much as you like.wallace_and_gromit said:
Most likely true, but I'm sure Hunt will take soundings from those close to the markets to gauge what might be acceptable. This was a apparently another of the Truss/Kwarteng failings. They just winged it, and suffered a double whammy from the markets - a genuine penalty for the un-costed elements of the "fiscal event" and a kick in the nadgers penalty for having the temerity to ignore the markets.rick_chasey said:
I don't think there is much leeway for tax cuts. Will get eaten alive by the bond markets.First.Aspect said:Remember that Hunt will shortly be claiming he beat inflation, roll back some of the unnecessary tax rises and call these tax cuts. That'll balance the polls significantly.
True believers think the only thing wrong with Truss/Kwarteng was that they did not do it in a pure enough way.0 -
if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loonmorstar said:
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.0 -
Want it to be, Tobias Ellwood or some single market Tory...surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
Who will it be? Who knows, if on the morning after a GE, we are looking at a massive Labour majority, I might have expected a shrewd politician to keep their powder dry. However, in the current political climate, turning round significant majorities doesn't quite feel like the mountain it once did ...0 -
They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.surrey_commuter said:
if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loonmorstar said:
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.
The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.0 -
Raab will very likely be out at the next GE. Marginal seat.First.Aspect said:
Since its a lost cause anyway, I think they should get as many out of the way as they can. In 18 months, they could probably safeguard against future leadership bids by JRM, Baverman and Patel by giving them all a chance to show what they can do.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
The party as a whole would still have Raab lurking, but there are new graduates every year from Eton, so they will probably be able to sweat that one out.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Fair point. I was writing - arrogantly perhaps - on behalf of sane people, so what Truss/Kwasi did was "ignore" the markets rather than act as a sovereign issuer "unsullied by the impurities that affect lesser countries".surrey_commuter said:
"ignore" is the wrong word as one of their core beliefs is that is you have a sovereign currency that you can borrow as much as you like.wallace_and_gromit said:
Most likely true, but I'm sure Hunt will take soundings from those close to the markets to gauge what might be acceptable. This was a apparently another of the Truss/Kwarteng failings. They just winged it, and suffered a double whammy from the markets - a genuine penalty for the un-costed elements of the "fiscal event" and a kick in the nadgers penalty for having the temerity to ignore the markets.rick_chasey said:
I don't think there is much leeway for tax cuts. Will get eaten alive by the bond markets.First.Aspect said:Remember that Hunt will shortly be claiming he beat inflation, roll back some of the unnecessary tax rises and call these tax cuts. That'll balance the polls significantly.
True believers think the only thing wrong with Truss/Kwarteng was that they did not do it in a pure enough way.0 -
Their polling numbers were poor under Boris too though. I'd guess for every constituency where Boris could be an asset, there's one where he's a liability.surrey_commuter said:
if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loonmorstar said:
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
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Here we go - BBC:A small number of Tories are already calling for tax cuts to reverse their fortunes.
David Jones MP said: “Conservative voters want a lower tax regime and control over illegal immigration.”
Sir John Redwood MP tweeted: “If the PM wants to win back lost Conservative voters he should try offering some Conservative policies. Cut taxes, get better value for state spending and go for growth.”
Former MEP David Campbell Bannerman, chairman of the Conservative Democratic Organisation, told BB Radio 4: “We want to get back to more traditional Conservative policies.”
He also said there was disquiet at the way Boris Johnson had been removed from office – hinting a return of the former PM might be an answer.0 -
If you get rid of Rishi for being too boring (ie dpendable and no dramas) you are not going to replace him with Ellwood.Jezyboy said:
Want it to be, Tobias Ellwood or some single market Tory...surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
Who will it be? Who knows, if on the morning after a GE, we are looking at a massive Labour majority, I might have expected a shrewd politician to keep their powder dry. However, in the current political climate, turning round significant majorities doesn't quite feel like the mountain it once did ...
If you want rid of Rishi then your idea of a successor will be Boris or somebody who makes Boris look sane such as Braverman or JRM0 -
that is why I said 100Jezyboy said:
Their polling numbers were poor under Boris too though. I'd guess for every constituency where Boris could be an asset, there's one where he's a liability.surrey_commuter said:
if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loonmorstar said:
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.0 -
Do you really not think there are 100 dysfunctional/blinkered Tory MPs who know they are fvcked so would happily go for a hail maryrick_chasey said:
They're being punished for giving is us 3 different prime ministers in 2022.surrey_commuter said:
if you have over a 100 MPs who are 99% sure they will lose their seat/job under Rishi then on a personal level the rational option is to roll the dice and reinstall Boris or some other loonmorstar said:
I think getting a slap down now in the 20 months prior to a GE is maybe a good thing. Gives them a chance to re-position themselves and marginalise the loons in the parliamentary party. But yes, I don't see a massive labour majority as a good thing in the same way the tory majority of this parliament has shown contempt for decency and fairness.surrey_commuter said:There seems to be a lot of glee from people who profess to want the Tories to sort themselves out and that democracy needs an effective opposition.
If these results get too bad who would you want Sunak's replacement to be and who do you think it will be?
I have little sympathy for Rishi, but I hardly see these results as the direct result of his leadership, he inherited a mess (to which he was a key contributor of the economic aspects but not the behavioural ones). I'd be surprised if they get rid of him although I'm sure the fringes will see it as an opportunity to do so.
This idea that at this point the PM is what matters is stupid.
The party is dysfunctional and anyone who's not blinkered can see it.0
