LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

😂

This government complaining that Whitehall is over-centralised.

🤣

I mean if Dom actually did something about it rather than just endlessly moaning about how nobody is as clever as he is, then maybe I'd take the story seriously.

Hopefully they will do something. I'm sure someone on here knows quite a few of them and may know more.

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

Pre Cummings it was right up there with the NHS, BBC, police, system of law and Parliament as best in the world

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

Pre Cummings it was right up there with the NHS, BBC, police, system of law and Parliament as best in the world

Who was doing the rating of them?

veronese68

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

Pre Cummings it was right up there with the NHS, BBC, police, system of law and Parliament as best in the world

I don't think the NHS, police or the BBC have been the best in the world for rather longer than since Cummins got into power.

surrey_commuter

veronese68 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

Pre Cummings it was right up there with the NHS, BBC, police, system of law and Parliament as best in the world

I don't think the NHS, police or the BBC have been the best in the world for rather longer than since Cummins got into power.

And you think Parliament is/was. I forgot the army.

My point was English exceptionalism (self-delusion)

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

Ah, so it's all the support team's fault. Got it. That's what 'taking responsibility' looks like.

Who said that? Apart from you.

There's always room for improvement.

Pre Cummings it was right up there with the NHS, BBC, police, system of law and Parliament as best in the world

Who was doing the rating of them?

British media/public/politicians

orraloon

But but we still have Order, Member, Commander etc of the British Empire, so world beating innit. Stands to reason.

sungod

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

that the overwhelming majority (well over 80%) of people in the uk live in urban areas, it seems perfectly right that they make up at least that much of the civil service, that line has the feel of pandering to gammons in the shires and the anti-london rabble

it's certainly broken though, decades of outsourcing for 'consultancy' that brings no value to the country - but assures lucrative future positions for the approvers, some seems simply to be corrupt - conformity being valued above innovation, similarity bias in selection and promotion, no doubt much talent is wasted

i know there're some excellent people in the fco, security and scientific branches, perhaps because what they do is not as lucrative for ministers and lobbyists to exploit for power and money, i.e. transport, health/social care, industry, energy etc.

unfortunately the current government seems intent on politicisation, that's appalling, with the uk's lack of constitutional rights a vigorously apolitical civil service, which includes the security services, police etc., is an important safeguard of liberty

briantrumpet

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sounds like they need to hurry up and fix their support team.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/uk-civil-service-broken-says-whitehall-reform-minister/

Quote as it may be paywalled:
"The civil service is "broken" and suffering from a "desperate shortage of practical skills", Prime Minister Boris Johnson's minister for Whitehall reform has declared.

In the clearest public signal of intent yet of the Government's plans for a radical overhaul the system, Lord Agnew described Whitehall as "the most overcentralised bureaucracy in the Western world", in which the "overwhelming majority" of civil servants were "urban metropolitan thinkers"."

Although in the meantime, some of you would probably fit in rather well in the Civil Service

that the overwhelming majority (well over 80%) of people in the uk live in urban areas, it seems perfectly right that they make up at least that much of the civil service, that line has the feel of pandering to gammons in the shires and the anti-london rabble

it's certainly broken though, decades of outsourcing for 'consultancy' that brings no value to the country - but assures lucrative future positions for the approvers, some seems simply to be corrupt - conformity being valued above innovation, similarity bias in selection and promotion, no doubt much talent is wasted

i know there're some excellent people in the fco, security and scientific branches, perhaps because what they do is not as lucrative for ministers and lobbyists to exploit for power and money, i.e. transport, health/social care, industry, energy etc.

unfortunately the current government seems intent on politicisation, that's appalling, with the uk's lack of constitutional rights a vigorously apolitical civil service, which includes the security services, police etc., is an important safeguard of liberty

I'm quite sure that Lord Agnew, the source of the Telegraph report, is wholly unbiased, and an objective critic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Agnew,_Baron_Agnew_of_Oulton

rick_chasey

So, to be clear, the people who have said they are going to spend a dicktonne of money to turn the UK into a tech super power use excel and don't know how to use it.

Gottit.

rick_chasey

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-defence-of-wokeness

and since everyone is anti-wokeness, here's a defence of it.

sungod

rick_chasey said:

So, to be clear, the people who have said they are going to spend a dicktonne of money to turn the UK into a tech super power use excel and don't know how to use it.

Gottit.

it's not the fault of the tool being used, it's that of the tools using it

rick_chasey

This is the most interesting paragraph in that spectator article, for me anyway.

and why wouldn’t you want to be ‘woke’ in any case? In its original sense, as minted in black activism in the States, to be ‘woke’ was to be aware. It was to show just that curiosity about the world that its use as a sneer declines to bother with. One of the basic contentions of the non-loony left is this: a social set-up that systematically gives some people a raw deal doesn’t always make it obvious that it’s doing so. We get used to it. This is a contention to which anybody arguing that it’s stupid to ‘cancel’ historical figures for holding views that were widespread in their own age should surely find it easy to subscribe. To take a well-worn analogy, we swim in a world-view like a fish swims in water: the fish doesn’t have a concept of ‘water’ because it’s all the poor thing has ever known. To be woke is to go, aha: this is water.

tailwindhome

sungod said:

rick_chasey said:

So, to be clear, the people who have said they are going to spend a dicktonne of money to turn the UK into a tech super power use excel and don't know how to use it.

Gottit.

it's not the fault of the tool being used, it's that of the tools using it

Seems they're using the wrong tool.

These are the people had tech solutions to the Irish Border.

Laughable

sungod

tailwindhome said:

...
These are the people had tech solutions to the Irish Border.
...

just outsource it to the usual suspects, no need for a competitive tender, let alone knowing what the specification will be once there's agreement (or not)

it'll all be ok, on time and on budget, just keep calm and carry on paying your taxes

pangolin

tailwindhome said:

sungod said:

rick_chasey said:

So, to be clear, the people who have said they are going to spend a dicktonne of money to turn the UK into a tech super power use excel and don't know how to use it.

Gottit.

it's not the fault of the tool being used, it's that of the tools using it

Seems they're using the wrong tool.

These are the people had tech solutions to the Irish Border.

Laughable

Think they were planning to use Access for that.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/ajb_powell/status/1313426506547376129?s=20

lol

surrey_commuter

Rishi -"this Government will balance the books"

I am more annoyed with the media than the politicians that they let them tell these ever bigger lies without picking them up on it.

I increasingly think that the last Budget with the planned £60bn deficit was the tipping point and I now think there is no going back. I think we will be nearer £3trn debt by the end of this Govt.

All the measures discussed are just rearranging the deckchairs and part of me thinks we may as well enjoy it while it lasts.

kingstongraham

surrey_commuter said:

Rishi -"this Government will balance the books"

I am more annoyed with the media than the politicians that they let them tell these ever bigger lies without picking them up on it.

I increasingly think that the last Budget with the planned £60bn deficit was the tipping point and I now think there is no going back. I think we will be nearer £3trn debt by the end of this Govt.

All the measures discussed are just rearranging the deckchairs and part of me thinks we may as well enjoy it while it lasts.

Yes, I heard that and thought "you weren't planning that before the pandemic hit, what makes you think it's going to happen now?"

rick_chasey

Johnson repeating the Priti Patel line of the UK justice system being caprutred by 'leftie human rights lawyers and other do-gooders'.

Nuts. Absolutely nuts.

TheBigBean

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

with it's unpredictability does that not leave you needing expensive back up or can we build enough storage to overcome that?

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Yes, it is. The less good bit is throwing £150m at upgrading the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Just laughable.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Johnson repeating the Priti Patel line of the UK justice system being caprutred by 'leftie human rights lawyers and other do-gooders'.

Nuts. Absolutely nuts.

The provisions in the IMB and the Overseas Operations Bill removing any right to judicial review of ministerial decisions are all of a piece with this.

kingstongraham

Some people...

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Yes, it is. The less good bit is throwing £150m at upgrading the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Just laughable.

Too small or big?

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Yes, it is. The less good bit is throwing £150m at upgrading the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Just laughable.

Not to mention that the contracts will go to either China or Korea.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Mr Goo will take issue with that (if they are anywhere near his back yard).

TheBigBean

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Yes, it is. The less good bit is throwing £150m at upgrading the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Just laughable.

Not to mention that the contracts will go to either China or Korea.

Fairly doubtful. Denmark maybe.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Boris talking up more offshore wind which is surely a good thing.

Yes, it is. The less good bit is throwing £150m at upgrading the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Just laughable.

Not to mention that the contracts will go to either China or Korea.

Fairly doubtful. Denmark maybe.

Last contract that I had an eye on in late spring/summer went to China.
Point being, it won't benefit British manufacturing.

Happy to be proven wrong.