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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 7,391
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the NHS and education are prime examples where lots of people earn less than their potential elsewhere and provide a contribution to society.
    They still need to be paid for - who does that then? Here's a couple of clues...
    https://fullfact.org/economy/what-do-wealthiest-pay-tax/
    https://www.pwc.co.uk/services/tax/total-tax-contribution-100-group.html

    You're missing the point - this isn't in any way an attack on people like you and me who are in the privileged position to pay more tax than average.
    and then the next thing you know
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    You're missing the point - this isn't in any way an attack on people like you and me who are in the privileged position to pay more tax than average.
    I can see your point but really people go into those jobs because they want to, not with some angelic thought of 'I'm sacrificing a possible better paid job for the greater good'. Although that said, my mate who is a consultant hospital doctor is not really known for his lifestyle sacrifices.

    Anyway, I'll continue to make sacrifices by not being an investment banker...
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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 15,308
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.
    How much do you think the voluntary part comprises of (say) the NHS? As the saying goes, it doesn't grow on trees.
    https://fullfact.org/health/what-is-the-nhs-budget/

    That's an answer to a different question. Of course most of the NHS is paid for from tax revenue. You asked how else people can contribute.
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  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 3,954
    Is it just me or does someone sound money obsessed?
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 3,954
    I have met people working on minimum wage as carers for people with money. I guess it's so their family can go off and live their lives or earn lots of money knowing there's someone carrying out the social care that families often used to provide themselves.

    I've also met people in social care who work on minimum wage for people with and without money. Some haven't got any other job to go to but some actually want to try to make things better. This last group I'd certainly be happy to pay extra tax for. They're the hard workers doing something positive outside of the money obsessed world of some tory right wingers.

    I know full time carers for family members (child with full time care needs). State funded but very, very active in the scene for that condition. Volunteering for a lot of state and charity activities and centres. Plus support networks that are doing a lot of the function state social care should be doing.

    What value are these people? Can their value really be put down on a balance sheet. Part of me would love to find a way to put a monetary value on their role that's not down to market forces and right wing obsession with capitalism. A new way of looking at Surrey to society. I bet a non - money index would see them being worth more to society than treasurers and investment bankers. Of course the modern world can't see past monetary value.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 8,453
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.

    I would like to hope that Stevo voluntarily takes his family private for both health and education.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    I have met people working on minimum wage as carers for people with money. I guess it's so their family can go off and live their lives or earn lots of money knowing there's someone carrying out the social care that families often used to provide themselves.

    I've also met people in social care who work on minimum wage for people with and without money. Some haven't got any other job to go to but some actually want to try to make things better. This last group I'd certainly be happy to pay extra tax for. They're the hard workers doing something positive outside of the money obsessed world of some tory right wingers.

    I know full time carers for family members (child with full time care needs). State funded but very, very active in the scene for that condition. Volunteering for a lot of state and charity activities and centres. Plus support networks that are doing a lot of the function state social care should be doing.

    What value are these people? Can their value really be put down on a balance sheet. Part of me would love to find a way to put a monetary value on their role that's not down to market forces and right wing obsession with capitalism. A new way of looking at Surrey to society. I bet a non - money index would see them being worth more to society than treasurers and investment bankers. Of course the modern world can't see past monetary value.
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.

    I would like to hope that Stevo voluntarily takes his family private for both health and education.
    Why?

    In principle if you pay for something then you are entitled to use it. Not that I necessarily do but it's worth making the point.

    And how about you?
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  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 8,453
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.

    I would like to hope that Stevo voluntarily takes his family private for both health and education.
    Why?

    In principle if you pay for something then you are entitled to use it. Not that I necessarily do but it's worth making the point.

    And how about you?

    I was supporting you by making a tongue in cheek reference to volunteers in health and education whilst making the valid point that the better off not only pay more in but voluntarily take less out.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 8,453
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.

    Stay at home mums have the time, inclination and often valuable skills to do voluntary work
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    edited 8 January
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.
    Maybe not all fit into your pigeon hole of being time poor. Many people and family members find the time to help run charities, do voluntary work etc. On top of paying in loads in and as SC says, often taking less out.

    Out of interest, what do you do to 'give something back'?
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.

    I would like to hope that Stevo voluntarily takes his family private for both health and education.
    Why?

    In principle if you pay for something then you are entitled to use it. Not that I necessarily do but it's worth making the point.

    And how about you?

    I was supporting you by making a tongue in cheek reference to volunteers in health and education whilst making the valid point that the better off not only pay more in but voluntarily take less out.
    Ah got it thanks - may have been too subtle for some including me. And a good point. I generally do not burden the NHS medical or dental services and the family has private cover also. And will be paying my kids uni fees from next year rather than have her borrow from the state.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.

    Stay at home mums have the time, inclination and often valuable skills to do voluntary work
    Exactly the case for my OH - she does three different lots of voluntary work currently. These selfish middle classes, eh?
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Funny that, I know how much I've contributed to society this year, as it's on my HMRC personal tax account :wink:

    You contribute with money then, which is fine - I'm the same. I wouldn't say that everyone contributes to society just with money.
    If you can find a way to pay the running costs of the NHS and the education system with honourable intentions and the like then please let me know. I haven't gone into the other non-monetary ways that I give something back as to be quite honest, the financial contribution is already plenty.

    I would have thought the obvious example in the NHS is the number of volunteers it relies on. Plus the charitable appeals for a new scanner or whatever. There's a lot of volunteering in education as well.
    How much do you think the voluntary part comprises of (say) the NHS? As the saying goes, it doesn't grow on trees.
    https://fullfact.org/health/what-is-the-nhs-budget/

    That's an answer to a different question. Of course most of the NHS is paid for from tax revenue. You asked how else people can contribute.
    Which I have answered - see above.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Is it just me or does someone sound money obsessed?
    It kinda beats living in la-la land where it would be nice if only...

    As you can see above I and my family contribute quite a lot both financially and non-financially. I haven't mention until now a few other things that I do on those fronts either, such as the charitable donations or helping look after elderly relatives.

    So how do you contribute TM?
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  • Robert88Robert88 Posts: 2,722
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Is it just me or does someone sound money obsessed?
    It kinda beats living in la-la land where it would be nice if only...

    As you can see above I and my family contribute quite a lot both financially and non-financially. I haven't mention until now a few other things that I do on those fronts either, such as the charitable donations or helping look after elderly relatives.

    So how do you contribute TM?


    17265226_1652531901720402_3983495177920064177_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=2d93a619d9d63319bd0fbe6cffb4d240&oe=5CC518C4
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ah got it thanks - may have been too subtle for some including me. And a good point. I generally do not burden the NHS medical or dental services and the family has private cover also. And will be paying my kids uni fees from next year rather than have her borrow from the state.

    With the new fee structure, is your kid not better off having the cash as a lump sum for a deposit on a house?
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.
    Maybe not all fit into your pigeon hole of being time poor. Many people and family members find the time to help run charities, do voluntary work etc. On top of paying in loads in and as SC says, often taking less out.

    Out of interest, what do you do to 'give something back'?

    Which is why I said, very few, and not all.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    @ Robert 88. Let's see what TM and Jez have to say shall we. We may find that they may not actually contribute that much...or at least somewhat less than those that they are criticising . I have a strange feeling that another episode of leftie mythbusters may be due :)

    I'd also be interested in what RJS contributes, just for completeness...

    See how long we have to wait :wink:
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The implication of this is that the better off don't do these non-monetary good things. I'm not sure where you get that from, other than leftiebollox anti-tory propaganda.

    Very few top flying professionals have an abundance of spare time, tbf.
    Maybe not all fit into your pigeon hole of being time poor. Many people and family members find the time to help run charities, do voluntary work etc. On top of paying in loads in and as SC says, often taking less out.

    Out of interest, what do you do to 'give something back'?

    Which is why I said, very few, and not all.
    More than you think.

    Now, how about answering my question above?
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Robert88 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Is it just me or does someone sound money obsessed?
    It kinda beats living in la-la land where it would be nice if only...

    As you can see above I and my family contribute quite a lot both financially and non-financially. I haven't mention until now a few other things that I do on those fronts either, such as the charitable donations or helping look after elderly relatives.

    So how do you contribute TM?


    17265226_1652531901720402_3983495177920064177_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=2d93a619d9d63319bd0fbe6cffb4d240&oe=5CC518C4
    People who live in glass houses...
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Jez mon wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ah got it thanks - may have been too subtle for some including me. And a good point. I generally do not burden the NHS medical or dental services and the family has private cover also. And will be paying my kids uni fees from next year rather than have her borrow from the state.

    With the new fee structure, is your kid not better off having the cash as a lump sum for a deposit on a house?
    No idea, haven't looked yet. The focus just now is on getting her into a good uni.
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,073
    What does she want to study, Stevo?

    (apologies for sidetracking the "who gives most to charity" duscussion)
    Ben

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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Ben6899 wrote:
    What does she want to study, Stevo?

    (apologies for sidetracking the "who gives most to charity" duscussion)
    Veterinary medicine. Not the easiest to get into and only a handful of unis do it, but it's what she really wants to do and is working bloody hard to get there.
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  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 5,305
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    What does she want to study, Stevo?

    (apologies for sidetracking the "who gives most to charity" duscussion)
    Veterinary medicine. Not the easiest to get into and only a handful of unis do it, but it's what she really wants to do and is working bloody hard to get there.
    Royal censored Vet in Embra, man. Handy fur gettin' close tae thae Trainspotters 'n' a', ken.
  • Robert88Robert88 Posts: 2,722
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Robert88 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Is it just me or does someone sound money obsessed?
    It kinda beats living in la-la land where it would be nice if only...

    As you can see above I and my family contribute quite a lot both financially and non-financially. I haven't mention until now a few other things that I do on those fronts either, such as the charitable donations or helping look after elderly relatives.

    So how do you contribute TM?


    17265226_1652531901720402_3983495177920064177_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fman2-2.fna&oh=2d93a619d9d63319bd0fbe6cffb4d240&oe=5CC518C4
    People who live in glass houses...
    6d1da31e1a53e68f8de1f37101ac3c29.jpg
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 15,308
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    @ Robert 88. Let's see what TM and Jez have to say shall we. We may find that they may not actually contribute that much...or at least somewhat less than those that they are criticising . I have a strange feeling that another episode of leftie mythbusters may be due :)

    I'd also be interested in what RJS contributes, just for completeness...

    See how long we have to wait :wink:

    And you accuse me of stalking...

    Without going into details not dissimilar to you. There's other stuff through work which is more financially significant but definitely not for a public forum, so you'll just have to take my word for it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    Robert88 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    People who live in glass houses...
    6d1da31e1a53e68f8de1f37101ac3c29.jpg
    Fyi the comment wasn't aimed at you.

    But the silence from some of those I have asked the question to is very telling :)
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 36,419
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    @ Robert 88. Let's see what TM and Jez have to say shall we. We may find that they may not actually contribute that much...or at least somewhat less than those that they are criticising . I have a strange feeling that another episode of leftie mythbusters may be due :)

    I'd also be interested in what RJS contributes, just for completeness...

    See how long we have to wait :wink:

    And you accuse me of stalking...

    Without going into details not dissimilar to you. There's other stuff through work which is more financially significant but definitely not for a public forum, so you'll just have to take my word for it.
    I don't doubt that you do. But when you add up the financial and non-financial contributions then I'm sure you will find that many of those you criticise actually give back more than you do.
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