LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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They may be voting for a chap with a blue rosette but they are still voting for the same policies as they always didskyblueamateur said:
The age related statistic you come back to Rick is being massively skewed by the metropolitan area's. The working class towns both young and old are voting Tory.rick_chasey said:surrey_commuter said:I am guessing there is a lot of old people in Hartlepool
Brexit town, 70% leave I believe.0 -
Sure. One swallow doesn't make a summer.skyblueamateur said:
The age related statistic you come back to Rick is being massively skewed by the metropolitan area's. The working class towns both young and old are voting Tory.rick_chasey said:surrey_commuter said:I am guessing there is a lot of old people in Hartlepool
Brexit town, 70% leave I believe.
Market towns & surrounding areas vote Tory (unless there's a world leading university there...), right? Cities vote labour.
I'm only going off the data from the elections and the subsequent analysis.
If you have other data that contradicts, I'm all ears.
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The pit towns up north always voted Labour. That is now not the case. I don't see Labour being an electable party again for a long time, if ever.rick_chasey said:
Sure. One swallow doesn't make a summer.skyblueamateur said:
The age related statistic you come back to Rick is being massively skewed by the metropolitan area's. The working class towns both young and old are voting Tory.rick_chasey said:surrey_commuter said:I am guessing there is a lot of old people in Hartlepool
Brexit town, 70% leave I believe.
Market towns & surrounding areas vote Tory (unless there's a world leading university there...), right? Cities vote labour.
I'm only going off the data from the elections and the subsequent analysis.
If you have other data that contradicts, I'm all ears.
Round here the Tories have taken Nuneaton council by a massive amount.
Labour need the old pit towns, Scotland and some seats in the south to win power. I just don't see that anytime soon.0 -
Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
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They've become a sort of chimera with an English version of the SNP + remnants of the Brexit Party grafted on to what's left of May's party.kingstongraham said:I am in awe of the conservative party successfully positioning itself as the change party. The acceptance speech of the winning candidate in Hartlepool really made it sound like the conservative government was delivering us from the terrible situation of the previous ten years of conservative government. Should that give pause to lifelong conservatives?
It’s not so much that the population of Hartlepool has changed as the parties moving underneath them. Must be weird being a Conservative MP when the leadership is no longer conservative except when it comes to fretting about statues.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Labour need to either, split up into old and new (or maybe call themselves city and town labour)
Or try and form an electoral pact with other progressive parties.
They need to learn from what Tony Blair did, but also learn how to apply that in the 2020s.
They need to highlight that the patriotism that the flag nonces shout about is hollow.
Even doing all that, it's an uphill battle.
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How does that fit with them having always been a fairly broad church?rjsterry said:
They've become a sort of chimera with an English version of the SNP + remnants of the Brexit Party grafted on to what's left of May's party.kingstongraham said:I am in awe of the conservative party successfully positioning itself as the change party. The acceptance speech of the winning candidate in Hartlepool really made it sound like the conservative government was delivering us from the terrible situation of the previous ten years of conservative government. Should that give pause to lifelong conservatives?
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?
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rick_chasey said:
Sure. One swallow doesn't make a summer.skyblueamateur said:
The age related statistic you come back to Rick is being massively skewed by the metropolitan area's. The working class towns both young and old are voting Tory.rick_chasey said:surrey_commuter said:I am guessing there is a lot of old people in Hartlepool
Brexit town, 70% leave I believe.
Market towns & surrounding areas vote Tory (unless there's a world leading university there...), right? Cities vote labour.
I'm only going off the data from the elections and the subsequent analysis.
If you have other data that contradicts, I'm all ears.
A win's a win. Especially in mid term by election when any government expects to get a kicking.rick_chasey said:
Sure. One swallow doesn't make a summer.skyblueamateur said:
The age related statistic you come back to Rick is being massively skewed by the metropolitan area's. The working class towns both young and old are voting Tory.rick_chasey said:surrey_commuter said:I am guessing there is a lot of old people in Hartlepool
Brexit town, 70% leave I believe.
Market towns & surrounding areas vote Tory (unless there's a world leading university there...), right? Cities vote labour.
I'm only going off the data from the elections and the subsequent analysis.
If you have other data that contradicts, I'm all ears.
Unfortunately for the Lib Dems, they came 7th behind at least one party I've never even heard of, polling a massive 349 votes. Time to give up?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
This stuff is so arrogant.Dorset_Boy said:
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
It's a difference of politics and priorities.
By the logic you say I could quite easily say " "the parochial regional" view point is massively out of touch in every major UK city". That is as stupid as your statement.
It's not some inverse snobbery "I am in touch and you're not" point.
People have different political persuasions and priorities and they tend to group together where they live.0 -
That is an argument for a different voting system, not an argument to vote Tory.Dorset_Boy said:
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?
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True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?0 -
I don't think you can discount there is still a lot of the sentiment that brexit still needs to be embedded and the Tories are the brexit party.
I think there's also an element of the country almost being on a war footing over COVID and in those circumstances you vote for continuity.
Obviously, labour are still a farce and don't seem to have a message to sell either, whereas the Tories have been very good at convincing everyone else is responsible for people's troubles other than themselves.0 -
That as may be but if Labour continue to fail to recognise this it is doomed as an electable party.rick_chasey said:
This stuff is so arrogant.Dorset_Boy said:
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
It's a difference of politics and priorities.
By the logic you say I could quite easily say " "the parochial regional" view point is massively out of touch in every major UK city". That is as stupid as your statement.
It's not some inverse snobbery "I am in touch and you're not" point.
People have different political persuasions and priorities and they tend to group together where they live.0 -
Stevo, I will always vote for parties who most closely reflect my political priorities, and not treat politics like a football team.Stevo_666 said:
Unfortunately for the Lib Dems, they came 7th behind at least one party I've never even heard of, polling a massive 349 votes. Time to give up?
I appreciate you don't, and that's fine - entirely up to you. It leads to some contradictory statements as the party flip-flops but everyone needs party loyalists. The communist regimes were built on them!
I hate a fairly multi-coloured vote yesterday in the 4 contests I voted in.
Yellow, Green and occasional red.
I am not as tribal about this as you make out. I have no personal capital in the LDs. I am not in agreement with quite a few on their most recent policies and I ponder why they put their efforts where they are - very fringe, divisive topics.
Obviously I would like more people to vote the way I do as that would mean governance that is closer to how I would like things run, but that doesn't factor in who I vote for.
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What does "right on" mean in this context? I'm sure I've asked before.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?
In the meantime, what do you think of the Lib Dems performance in the by election?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Pronouns over jobs.pangolin said:What does "right on" mean in this context? I'm sure I've asked before.
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Bit late to be saying that.rick_chasey said:
That is an argument for a different voting system, not an argument to vote Tory.Dorset_Boy said:
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The brexit supporters will tell you it's never time to give up on righteous change.Stevo_666 said:
Bit late to be saying that.rick_chasey said:
That is an argument for a different voting system, not an argument to vote Tory.Dorset_Boy said:
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?0 -
Well quite. There are a number of those on here.Dorset_Boy said:
How does that fit with them having always been a fairly broad church?rjsterry said:
They've become a sort of chimera with an English version of the SNP + remnants of the Brexit Party grafted on to what's left of May's party.kingstongraham said:I am in awe of the conservative party successfully positioning itself as the change party. The acceptance speech of the winning candidate in Hartlepool really made it sound like the conservative government was delivering us from the terrible situation of the previous ten years of conservative government. Should that give pause to lifelong conservatives?
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?
I'm surprised people don't make more of the similarities between Johnson and Sturgeon. Both keen on spending other people's money and both seem to be able to withstand scandals that would ruin other leaders.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Whats that got to do with it?kingstongraham said:
The brexit supporters will tell you it's never time to give up on righteous change.Stevo_666 said:
Bit late to be saying that.rick_chasey said:
That is an argument for a different voting system, not an argument to vote Tory.Dorset_Boy said:
It's also difficult if people don't like Labour, and the Lib Dems have become an irrelevance again, so who do the anti-boris tories vote for?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yep, the Tory gain almost mirrors the losses of the Brexit Party / Reform although those votes probably originated with leave voting Labour supporters over the past few elections. Labour's losses were then balanced against Independent gains.rjsterry said:
They've become a sort of chimera with an English version of the SNP + remnants of the Brexit Party grafted on to what's left of May's party.kingstongraham said:I am in awe of the conservative party successfully positioning itself as the change party. The acceptance speech of the winning candidate in Hartlepool really made it sound like the conservative government was delivering us from the terrible situation of the previous ten years of conservative government. Should that give pause to lifelong conservatives?
It’s not so much that the population of Hartlepool has changed as the parties moving underneath them. Must be weird being a Conservative MP when the leadership is no longer conservative except when it comes to fretting about statues.
Brexit has completely changed the wider political landscape and "getting Brexit done" seems to trumped any other policy or apparent incompetency. It feels like there is a need for a complete new reboot in the centre ground and Labour seems to be split into two separate parties these days.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?
In the meantime, what do you think of the Lib Dems performance in the by election?
I wouldn't have voted lib dem in that constituency, so not sure why you are asking me about them.
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It's not arrogant at all. It tends to be the metro libs trying to tell everyone else how to lead their lives and dictate what is right and wrong.rick_chasey said:
This stuff is so arrogant.Dorset_Boy said:
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
It's a difference of politics and priorities.
By the logic you say I could quite easily say " "the parochial regional" view point is massively out of touch in every major UK city". That is as stupid as your statement.
It's not some inverse snobbery "I am in touch and you're not" point.
People have different political persuasions and priorities and they tend to group together where they live.
I'm saying the liberal metro view point doesn't resonate outside the cities and therefore is out of touch with those areas.
It clearly resonates with city dwellers.
It's not saying one is right or one is wrong, once again you try to play the man and not the ball. Read what is wrtten, and digest it before adding salt to the chip!2 -
The Tory coalition is low tax, low spend, small government home counties wealthy people, land owning shire types, and now also, industrial heartland constituencies promised government investment they've been starved of for years under this government. Who is going to be let down? Or do you think I'm wrong?Stevo_666 said:
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?0 -
If they come through for the ignored Northern constituencies, that would be awesome, but I think your traditional tory voter will hate it because it will cost.0
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You left out the self employed, the small business owners from your list of traditional Tories there.kingstongraham said:
The Tory coalition is low tax, low spend, small government home counties wealthy people, land owning shire types, and now also, industrial heartland constituencies promised government investment they've been starved of for years under this government. Who is going to be let down? Or do you think I'm wrong?Stevo_666 said:
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?
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Give me a crystal ball...kingstongraham said:
The Tory coalition is low tax, low spend, small government home counties wealthy people, land owning shire types, and now also, industrial heartland constituencies promised government investment they've been starved of for years under this government. Who is going to be let down? Or do you think I'm wrong?Stevo_666 said:
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?
But let's not lose sight of the main point - a cracking win
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
For who, though?Stevo_666 said:
Give me a crystal ball...kingstongraham said:
The Tory coalition is low tax, low spend, small government home counties wealthy people, land owning shire types, and now also, industrial heartland constituencies promised government investment they've been starved of for years under this government. Who is going to be let down? Or do you think I'm wrong?Stevo_666 said:
Tell exactly what the statements are you're referring to and I can decide.kingstongraham said:
I understand what the tories are offering previously labour and brexit voting people from northern left behind constituencies. I don't understand why they are still believed by long term conservative voters who voted remain and are interested in tax, laughed about the magic money tree and are from the home counties.Stevo_666 said:
True.Dorset_Boy said:Couple of comments from the radio this morning:
Hartlepool one of the biggest Brexit constituencies, and yet Labour put up a staunch remainer candidate.
Many Brexit leaning Labour voters see Starmer as the man behind Labour wanting to remain and who campaigned for the best part of 4 years to over turn the result of the first referendum.
It is quite incredible that after over a decade in power, it isn't the governing party's vote that is falling away, but that of the opposition parties. It doesn't appear that the Lib Dems are picking up anything from Labour either.
The 'liberal metro' view point clearly is massively out of touch outside the major cities.
Labour has the problem that it has a supporter base comprising the right-on metropolitan lefties and the traditional working class supporter base. And it can't really please both at the same time.
However the nasty tories clearly did something right, which some of the metropolitan lot can't/don't want to understand or deal with.
Who do you think they are lying to?
But let's not lose sight of the main point - a cracking win
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