LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
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Half of an article I was reading this morning concerned a GP who was reducing her hours - effectively taking 3 months unpaid leave - as she was financially better off that way. She'd have needed a >20% pay rise to get over the hump of additional tax and see any additional take home pay.surrey_commuter said:
far better off using the money to get rid of the cliff edges and remove disincentives to do stuff.wallace_and_gromit said:
I could see a case for the basic rate of income tax or VAT to reduce by 1p or 2p, but from what I've read, one of the cuts being talked about is Inheritance Tax, which is not really of much benefit for those currently struggling.vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:Public services all struggling after years of underfunding , best solution? Tax cuts of course!
If you made IHT 5% and removed all exemptions you might raise more meoney1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
What other subjects are on the list that make you appear worldly wise if you take an interest? I can't be interested in everything so have to pick and choose.wallace_and_gromit said:
This feels quite strange for a worldly wise type such as yourself tbh. There have been quite extensive discussions in the media since the pandemic about the problems caused during the pandemic of delayed early diagnoses (resulting in more folk becoming ill than would otherwise have been the case) and delayed treatment of relatively minor conditions (which results in more serious cases that are harder to fix). In short, at the margins, more people are too ill to work, whilst needing care, and folk voluntarily withdraw from the labour market to provide care. Long term sickness is one of the factors unique to the UK post-pandemic that have fuelled inflation via labour shortages i.e. there is more long term sickness in the UK now relative to pre-pandemic than in many other advanced economies.Stevo_666 said:
It's something that should be considered. Can't confess to having thought it through, not high on my priority list.First.Aspect said:
Free at the point of care treatment is a fundamental part of our health service. Do you think that is something that should be changed? If so, why, how, what would be the consequences, and how would you address those?Stevo_666 said:It's not that different from people who don't work enough and so don't pay enough National Insurance to get a full state pension. But I don't hear any moaning about that.
I also decide whether I want to be drawn into a debate framed by others
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The "cliff edges" aren't ideal but dealing with these feels like a second order problem at the moment. Devising a tax cut that will be helpful to the masses and also broadly acceptable feels like a higher priority. There might then be some sensible debate about tax policy generated amongst politicians rather than the triggering of another slanging match about favouring the "rich". Assuming of course that cutting taxes at the moment is a good idea given the state of the national finances.rjsterry said:
Half of an article I was reading this morning concerned a GP who was reducing her hours - effectively taking 3 months unpaid leave - as she was financially better off that way. She'd have needed a >20% pay rise to get over the hump of additional tax and see any additional take home pay.surrey_commuter said:
far better off using the money to get rid of the cliff edges and remove disincentives to do stuff.wallace_and_gromit said:
I could see a case for the basic rate of income tax or VAT to reduce by 1p or 2p, but from what I've read, one of the cuts being talked about is Inheritance Tax, which is not really of much benefit for those currently struggling.vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:Public services all struggling after years of underfunding , best solution? Tax cuts of course!
If you made IHT 5% and removed all exemptions you might raise more meoney0 -
will be the same for child benefit and loss of benefits as earnings increaserjsterry said:
Half of an article I was reading this morning concerned a GP who was reducing her hours - effectively taking 3 months unpaid leave - as she was financially better off that way. She'd have needed a >20% pay rise to get over the hump of additional tax and see any additional take home pay.surrey_commuter said:
far better off using the money to get rid of the cliff edges and remove disincentives to do stuff.wallace_and_gromit said:
I could see a case for the basic rate of income tax or VAT to reduce by 1p or 2p, but from what I've read, one of the cuts being talked about is Inheritance Tax, which is not really of much benefit for those currently struggling.vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:Public services all struggling after years of underfunding , best solution? Tax cuts of course!
If you made IHT 5% and removed all exemptions you might raise more meoney
Stamp duty stops people from moving so should b chopped to 2% flat rate, as always no exemptions0 -
Education. "Schools'n'hospitals" was very popular as a slogan in the mid 1990s!Stevo_666 said:
What other subjects are on the list that make you appear worldly wise if you take an interest? I can't be interested in everything so have to pick and choose.wallace_and_gromit said:
This feels quite strange for a worldly wise type such as yourself tbh. There have been quite extensive discussions in the media since the pandemic about the problems caused during the pandemic of delayed early diagnoses (resulting in more folk becoming ill than would otherwise have been the case) and delayed treatment of relatively minor conditions (which results in more serious cases that are harder to fix). In short, at the margins, more people are too ill to work, whilst needing care, and folk voluntarily withdraw from the labour market to provide care. Long term sickness is one of the factors unique to the UK post-pandemic that have fuelled inflation via labour shortages i.e. there is more long term sickness in the UK now relative to pre-pandemic than in many other advanced economies.Stevo_666 said:
It's something that should be considered. Can't confess to having thought it through, not high on my priority list.First.Aspect said:
Free at the point of care treatment is a fundamental part of our health service. Do you think that is something that should be changed? If so, why, how, what would be the consequences, and how would you address those?Stevo_666 said:It's not that different from people who don't work enough and so don't pay enough National Insurance to get a full state pension. But I don't hear any moaning about that.
The benefits of preventative health care via screening, early treatment etc. are not the deepest subject in the world. An hour on Google would doubtless get you up to speed - if you want to expose yourself to the subject matter. It's not comfortable to read for a natural Tory supporter though, as the only logical conclusion is that reducing access to healthcare is a really, really bad idea, as it costs more than it saves.
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We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver said:
As pointed out too, they are Scottish dancers. Northern Ireland dancers' hands stay resolutely by their sides. Tories can't even Tweet competently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNcudEwMveA 0 -
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Maybe 'Loon was the judge?briantrumpet said:Was that you, @orraloon? 🤔
If it was, congrats on the acquittal! 😜 "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
#toryscum is a simple label to cover that cludge of corrupt liars, grifters, backhander takers, gropers, rapists, racists, bullies et al.0
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I know that this is just rhetoric but nothing in the IDS judgement changes the law relating to defamation, so if you take to the airwaves to denounce your favourite Tory as a rapist etc. then you'd be wise to have some facts at your disposal!orraloon said:#toryscum is a simple label to cover that cludge of corrupt liars, grifters, backhander takers, gropers, rapists, racists, bullies et al.
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Wahey! Full expensing!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think understanding the concept of exponential growth (doubling) and what different types of tests are is pretty basic to be honest. I don't remember anyone I knew or on here struggling to understand the difference between lateral flow tests and PCR tests. Or what exponential growth means.TheBigBean said:
That's one of the reasons I think the public enquiry is a bit shameful. Vallance went on to say that it was a common problem for all world leaders and that none of them quickly grasped scientific concepts, because they were politicians and not scientists. This then leads to a headline that Boris was a dimwit.briantrumpet said:Just in case people harbour any lingering doubts about whether Johnson wasn't as bright as he thinks he is:
He also said that scientists modelled the spread of covid badly and from the point of realisation that it had spread far quicker than expected, they locked down as quickly as they could.
I do think it is important to learn lessons, but I also think that any lessons learnt need to be appropriate for future pandemics, and any criticism needs to take into account the circumstances.
I understand why people can be confused by absolute and relative risk at first encounter, but anyone with half a brain should understand that once they've had it explained to them. Assuming they paid attention, which you'd hope as PM he would have been.0 -
Honestly if scientific/numerical literacy in this country is really so bad that we can't expect the PM to understand very basic concepts then it's no wonder the country is going down the toilet.0
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Absolute vs relative risk was certainly not a quick conversation on here.bobmcstuff said:
I think understanding the concept of exponential growth (doubling) and what different types of tests are is pretty basic to be honest. I don't remember anyone I knew or on here struggling to understand the difference between lateral flow tests and PCR tests. Or what exponential growth means.TheBigBean said:
That's one of the reasons I think the public enquiry is a bit shameful. Vallance went on to say that it was a common problem for all world leaders and that none of them quickly grasped scientific concepts, because they were politicians and not scientists. This then leads to a headline that Boris was a dimwit.briantrumpet said:Just in case people harbour any lingering doubts about whether Johnson wasn't as bright as he thinks he is:
He also said that scientists modelled the spread of covid badly and from the point of realisation that it had spread far quicker than expected, they locked down as quickly as they could.
I do think it is important to learn lessons, but I also think that any lessons learnt need to be appropriate for future pandemics, and any criticism needs to take into account the circumstances.
I understand why people can be confused by absolute and relative risk at first encounter, but anyone with half a brain should understand that once they've had it explained to them. Assuming they paid attention, which you'd hope as PM he would have been.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I'll reply in the Covid thread.0
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[Edited to be more prudent.]pangolin said:
Absolute vs relative risk was certainly not a quick conversation on here.bobmcstuff said:
I think understanding the concept of exponential growth (doubling) and what different types of tests are is pretty basic to be honest. I don't remember anyone I knew or on here struggling to understand the difference between lateral flow tests and PCR tests. Or what exponential growth means.TheBigBean said:
That's one of the reasons I think the public enquiry is a bit shameful. Vallance went on to say that it was a common problem for all world leaders and that none of them quickly grasped scientific concepts, because they were politicians and not scientists. This then leads to a headline that Boris was a dimwit.briantrumpet said:Just in case people harbour any lingering doubts about whether Johnson wasn't as bright as he thinks he is:
He also said that scientists modelled the spread of covid badly and from the point of realisation that it had spread far quicker than expected, they locked down as quickly as they could.
I do think it is important to learn lessons, but I also think that any lessons learnt need to be appropriate for future pandemics, and any criticism needs to take into account the circumstances.
I understand why people can be confused by absolute and relative risk at first encounter, but anyone with half a brain should understand that once they've had it explained to them. Assuming they paid attention, which you'd hope as PM he would have been.
Most folk should be able to grasp the concepts, one would think. Everyone who can drive - the majority of adults - implicitly understands the idea of the relative risk of speed, in that a particular speed is generally only "safe" relative to the prevailing conditions (road surface, weather, traffic volume etc.)
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I struggle to believe that people can't understand exponential growth*, but then every month I'm reminded how no one understands inflation, so perhaps I have to high expectations.
*Isn't there some fable told at schools where someone asks for one grain of rice on one square of a chess board and for it to double on every square?0 -
A huge amount of people don’t understand compound interest which I think I was taught in junior school. A lot also don’t seem to understand that a reduced rate of inflation still means things are increasing. I’m still surprised daily by the level of ignorance displayed on things I thought were taught in early life.TheBigBean said:I struggle to believe that people can't understand exponential growth*, but then every month I'm reminded how no one understands inflation, so perhaps I have to high expectations.
*Isn't there some fable told at schools where someone asks for one grain of rice on one square of a chess board and for it to double on every square?0 -
I don't recall being taught compound interest at all at school (i have since picked it up from somewhere) but then I recently realised that I had no memory of how to do long division which I definitely was taught so perhaps that fault is not with the education system...
None of them are particularly difficult to grasp but someone has to tell you the concept at least.
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Also taught ≠ remembered
Perhaps I am giving people too much credit but my 7 year old could probably understand the basics of compound interests after a few minutes explanation, there are no difficult steps.0 -
I posted about a year ago somewhere on this site my surprise that neighbours genuinely thought inflation going from 10% to 8% would mean a price drop.Pross said:
A huge amount of people don’t understand compound interest which I think I was taught in junior school. A lot also don’t seem to understand that a reduced rate of inflation still means things are increasing. I’m still surprised daily by the level of ignorance displayed on things I thought were taught in early life.TheBigBean said:I struggle to believe that people can't understand exponential growth*, but then every month I'm reminded how no one understands inflation, so perhaps I have to high expectations.
*Isn't there some fable told at schools where someone asks for one grain of rice on one square of a chess board and for it to double on every square?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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This does at least make some people feel exceptionally clever. Silver linings.pblakeney said:
I posted about a year ago somewhere on this site my surprise that neighbours genuinely thought inflation going from 10% to 8% would mean a price drop.Pross said:
A huge amount of people don’t understand compound interest which I think I was taught in junior school. A lot also don’t seem to understand that a reduced rate of inflation still means things are increasing. I’m still surprised daily by the level of ignorance displayed on things I thought were taught in early life.TheBigBean said:I struggle to believe that people can't understand exponential growth*, but then every month I'm reminded how no one understands inflation, so perhaps I have to high expectations.
*Isn't there some fable told at schools where someone asks for one grain of rice on one square of a chess board and for it to double on every square?0 -
How will everyone be spending their bumper 2% NI saving come January?- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I know this is meant as a flippant comment, but it does demonstrate the problem of "boosting" the economy via tax cuts. The NI saving will be welcome to many, but largely irrelevant to more, and yet it has used up pretty much all of the "fiscal headroom" that probably doesn't really exist anyway.pangolin said:How will everyone be spending their bumper 2% NI saving come January?
But to answer your question, I will spend a decent chunk of its annualised amount for the whole of next year on holiday beer in France. #greatfortheUKeconomy0 -
It's not going to change the world but it's also not trivial when you employ even a small number of people.wallace_and_gromit said:
I know this is meant as a flippant comment, but it does demonstrate the problem of "boosting" the economy via tax cuts. The NI saving will be welcome to many, but largely irrelevant to more, and yet it has used up pretty much all of the "fiscal headroom" that probably doesn't really exist anyway.pangolin said:How will everyone be spending their bumper 2% NI saving come January?
But to answer your question, I will spend a decent chunk of its annualised amount for the whole of next year on holiday beer in France. #greatfortheUKeconomy
BTW, it's a two percentage points reduction, not a 2% reduction.
On the other hand, with inflation as it is, the flat spending is effectively stealth spending cuts. Expect more local authorities going bust and more things falling apart.
#areyoukwartengindisguise1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
How hard is it to behave professionally, honestly. You’re at work in one of the most watched rooms in the land.feelgoodlost said:Those lovely Tories ey?!
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There is an exemption for new build renewables from the energy generation levy. Astonishing it has taken that long.1
