LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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Quite.surrey_commuter said:
not doing much is undervalued in politicianswallace_and_gromit said:
I think this just about nails it, as does Super_Davo's comment about the current administration's sheer disregard for those they are meant to be serving.First.Aspect said:
It's more about stopping the bleeding Stevo.Stevo_666 said:
I admire your faith in Labour to make a difference but tbh I don't see how they are going to do that with pretty much same financial resources as they have now, a lack of experience in government and the inevitable queue of unions, public sector bodies, quangos etc outside Reeve's door all expecting a big pay day/funding rounds. And the hard left lurking beneath the surface, although at least they aren't in the driving seat currently.super_davo said:
This current government is historically bad. There is corruption, there is a cynical disregard for the public they serve, their record is poor across a wide range of areas and the public have lost faith with them. The country has never united after the hugely divisive referendum they called and they are not interested in fixing that, they will happily create divisions and culture wars to improve their chances of election.Stevo_666 said:
You were questioning why cut NI now so I assumed you saw that as a bad thing.super_davo said:
Why do you think I want more tax being collected?Stevo_666 said:
Let's give super davo a chance to answer the question himself.rjsterry said:
More tax is being collected. Just not quite as much more.Stevo_666 said:
I thought you would approve of more tax being collected?super_davo said:Thing I dislike is the cynicism of it all. Tax burdens have raised massively through freezing of tax bands throughout the high inflation period. We're not really in any better position financially than in any year of this parliament; borrowing is still sky high as are debt repayments.
Why cut NI now? Because they think we're all stupid enough to forget the last 13 years of being squeezed by seeing headlines like "Biggest tax cut since the 80s" from papers that are acting as propaganda machines. When the "stealth" freezing of the bands is effectively taking more than the cut is giving anyway.
It's all so cynical, and so far away from governing in the best interests of the country.
Overall tax burden of 40-45% is pretty normal in most Western economies and we're in that range. It's how you collect it and what you do with it that counts.
My biggest bugbear with the UK tax & benefit system is the money we spend on "in work benefits" and housing credit. That distorts both markets, because it means companies can offer and people accept lower wages than the market would settle on, and in respect of housing credit it basically just becomes a straight transfer from state to private landlords.
My second biggest bugbear is the cliff edge tax rates like when UC drops off or you start losing tax credits or personal tax credit threshold. These create crazy incentives, and there are fixes for each of these.
I don't subscribe to the "if its public it must be bad" mantra that has blighted this country since the 80s. We've privatised things that don't make sense to be privatised like water and public transport, put completely inadequate regulatory regimes in place, and end up paying subsidies to keep it all afloat.
Finally, I would like public services that work. I already pay a significant amount in tax, I don't want to have to spend more on top for private medical insurance, for education etc. If it means I have to pay more tax myself, that's fine. But paying the amount I already do for the chocolate teapot service we receive and then having to pay all over again smarts.
Thst said, do you see Labour or any other party fixing the problems that you mention above?
Labour are the only ticket out of here. They don't have to be very good to be an improvement. But I think they will be solid - they've got serious, non-dogmatic people in key roles, they are listening, they are making the right noises. There are a lot of things I don't like such as the "don't scare the red walk" approach to Europe, but even that is an improvement on today's position.
I think most people will acknowledge that the current Labour party aren't visionaries, and that the level of support is just "not Tory".
The most optimistic thing I can say is that this is nearing the end of the UKs flirt with populism, and that a new more moderate and boring Conservative party would quickly recover support.
This would require some of the current bunch to move on - bit like Man U, they've had several managers now and been censored for all of them - and for the gammon heavy membership to stop electing idiots.
Realistically, there are no silver bullets out there, and achieving the levels of prosperity nationally that we all want will be a long slog. The Tory's propensity to give "air time" and influence to idiots who simply don't understand this is seriously counterproductive. Whilst Labour will doubtless be pretty uninspiring in office, they appear to have learnt their lesson from the Corbyn experiment and have assembled a dull, boring and realistic senior team which has (from what is in the public domain) integrity.
Hippocrates was there millennia ago with "First do no harm". (Though a quick Google reveals that this is not actually part of the Hippocratic Oath, but rather in another of H's works.)0 -
I think the worst thing that happened to Labour, and the country as a whole, was doing quite wel the first time under Corbyn.surrey_commuter said:
everybody should pray the Tories do alright at the election as otherwise they risk having their Corbyn moment from which they may never returnFirst.Aspect said:
It's more about stopping the bleeding Stevo.Stevo_666 said:
I admire your faith in Labour to make a difference but tbh I don't see how they are going to do that with pretty much same financial resources as they have now, a lack of experience in government and the inevitable queue of unions, public sector bodies, quangos etc outside Reeve's door all expecting a big pay day/funding rounds. And the hard left lurking beneath the surface, although at least they aren't in the driving seat currently.super_davo said:
This current government is historically bad. There is corruption, there is a cynical disregard for the public they serve, their record is poor across a wide range of areas and the public have lost faith with them. The country has never united after the hugely divisive referendum they called and they are not interested in fixing that, they will happily create divisions and culture wars to improve their chances of election.Stevo_666 said:
You were questioning why cut NI now so I assumed you saw that as a bad thing.super_davo said:
Why do you think I want more tax being collected?Stevo_666 said:
Let's give super davo a chance to answer the question himself.rjsterry said:
More tax is being collected. Just not quite as much more.Stevo_666 said:
I thought you would approve of more tax being collected?super_davo said:Thing I dislike is the cynicism of it all. Tax burdens have raised massively through freezing of tax bands throughout the high inflation period. We're not really in any better position financially than in any year of this parliament; borrowing is still sky high as are debt repayments.
Why cut NI now? Because they think we're all stupid enough to forget the last 13 years of being squeezed by seeing headlines like "Biggest tax cut since the 80s" from papers that are acting as propaganda machines. When the "stealth" freezing of the bands is effectively taking more than the cut is giving anyway.
It's all so cynical, and so far away from governing in the best interests of the country.
Overall tax burden of 40-45% is pretty normal in most Western economies and we're in that range. It's how you collect it and what you do with it that counts.
My biggest bugbear with the UK tax & benefit system is the money we spend on "in work benefits" and housing credit. That distorts both markets, because it means companies can offer and people accept lower wages than the market would settle on, and in respect of housing credit it basically just becomes a straight transfer from state to private landlords.
My second biggest bugbear is the cliff edge tax rates like when UC drops off or you start losing tax credits or personal tax credit threshold. These create crazy incentives, and there are fixes for each of these.
I don't subscribe to the "if its public it must be bad" mantra that has blighted this country since the 80s. We've privatised things that don't make sense to be privatised like water and public transport, put completely inadequate regulatory regimes in place, and end up paying subsidies to keep it all afloat.
Finally, I would like public services that work. I already pay a significant amount in tax, I don't want to have to spend more on top for private medical insurance, for education etc. If it means I have to pay more tax myself, that's fine. But paying the amount I already do for the chocolate teapot service we receive and then having to pay all over again smarts.
Thst said, do you see Labour or any other party fixing the problems that you mention above?
Labour are the only ticket out of here. They don't have to be very good to be an improvement. But I think they will be solid - they've got serious, non-dogmatic people in key roles, they are listening, they are making the right noises. There are a lot of things I don't like such as the "don't scare the red walk" approach to Europe, but even that is an improvement on today's position.
I think most people will acknowledge that the current Labour party aren't visionaries, and that the level of support is just "not Tory".
The most optimistic thing I can say is that this is nearing the end of the UKs flirt with populism, and that a new more moderate and boring Conservative party would quickly recover support.
This would require some of the current bunch to move on - bit like Man U, they've had several managers now and been censored for all of them - and for the gammon heavy membership to stop electing idiots.
I am torn between the relative problems of a huge labour majority (or any huge majority) and the longer term problems of a continuation of a populist right in this country.
On balance I'd say the latter is more of a problem, and that electoral calamity for the Tories followed by reinvention would be best.
I say this with no affection whatsoever for the Conservatives, it is just that I know now that I'm older that balance is good.
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Judging by the change I've seen in the last couple of years, outside. Maybe not the same 700,000, but there is a big spike in homelessness.surrey_commuter said:
This is my point about good quality data.rick_chasey said:
Curious about the logic here.bikes_and_dogs said:Complaining about the strain on our public services and accepting record immigration figures strikes me as a paradox.
Even the traditionally liberal Dutch are swinging to the far right.
Over to you Keir Starmer. Sitting on the fence without any meaningful conviction may be his undoing.
How do you square this position with the point that a) those services rely on a lot of migrant labour and part of their struggles are to do with huge levels of vacancies and b) part of the UK’s inflation problem is a shortage of workers in general?
And why do you not think austerity is the main culprit in light of the above?
There is roughly one doctor per thousand patients in the UK. With all the commings and goings did we end up with at least 750 more GPs?
My hunch is that the majority of EU immigrants were young, educated, healthy and childless who then left before their circumstances changed so making them massive contributors to the UK coffers.
If the trebling of net migration is because of non-working age, uneducated and unhealthy who are moving permanently then the UK needs to figure that out quickly and decide how they are going to provide for them.
If we had a longstanding gousing crisis then where n God's name are 700,000 extra people sleeping every night?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Nobody has stopped me so farFirst.Aspect said:
It's more about stopping the bleeding Stevo.Stevo_666 said:
I admire your faith in Labour to make a difference but tbh I don't see how they are going to do that with pretty much same financial resources as they have now, a lack of experience in government and the inevitable queue of unions, public sector bodies, quangos etc outside Reeve's door all expecting a big pay day/funding rounds. And the hard left lurking beneath the surface, although at least they aren't in the driving seat currently.super_davo said:
This current government is historically bad. There is corruption, there is a cynical disregard for the public they serve, their record is poor across a wide range of areas and the public have lost faith with them. The country has never united after the hugely divisive referendum they called and they are not interested in fixing that, they will happily create divisions and culture wars to improve their chances of election.Stevo_666 said:
You were questioning why cut NI now so I assumed you saw that as a bad thing.super_davo said:
Why do you think I want more tax being collected?Stevo_666 said:
Let's give super davo a chance to answer the question himself.rjsterry said:
More tax is being collected. Just not quite as much more.Stevo_666 said:
I thought you would approve of more tax being collected?super_davo said:Thing I dislike is the cynicism of it all. Tax burdens have raised massively through freezing of tax bands throughout the high inflation period. We're not really in any better position financially than in any year of this parliament; borrowing is still sky high as are debt repayments.
Why cut NI now? Because they think we're all stupid enough to forget the last 13 years of being squeezed by seeing headlines like "Biggest tax cut since the 80s" from papers that are acting as propaganda machines. When the "stealth" freezing of the bands is effectively taking more than the cut is giving anyway.
It's all so cynical, and so far away from governing in the best interests of the country.
Overall tax burden of 40-45% is pretty normal in most Western economies and we're in that range. It's how you collect it and what you do with it that counts.
My biggest bugbear with the UK tax & benefit system is the money we spend on "in work benefits" and housing credit. That distorts both markets, because it means companies can offer and people accept lower wages than the market would settle on, and in respect of housing credit it basically just becomes a straight transfer from state to private landlords.
My second biggest bugbear is the cliff edge tax rates like when UC drops off or you start losing tax credits or personal tax credit threshold. These create crazy incentives, and there are fixes for each of these.
I don't subscribe to the "if its public it must be bad" mantra that has blighted this country since the 80s. We've privatised things that don't make sense to be privatised like water and public transport, put completely inadequate regulatory regimes in place, and end up paying subsidies to keep it all afloat.
Finally, I would like public services that work. I already pay a significant amount in tax, I don't want to have to spend more on top for private medical insurance, for education etc. If it means I have to pay more tax myself, that's fine. But paying the amount I already do for the chocolate teapot service we receive and then having to pay all over again smarts.
Thst said, do you see Labour or any other party fixing the problems that you mention above?
Labour are the only ticket out of here. They don't have to be very good to be an improvement. But I think they will be solid - they've got serious, non-dogmatic people in key roles, they are listening, they are making the right noises. There are a lot of things I don't like such as the "don't scare the red walk" approach to Europe, but even that is an improvement on today's position.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Let us know when you start 😛1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
pblakeney said:
The above pretty much sims things for me. Abitshit is preferable to absoluteshit.
Abitshit will still get flak.
And the Abitshit Party still needs to be held to account by a Whatevershit Party, which is why I'd like the Tories to tell the loons to sling their collective hooks and get back to something sensible and generally right wing (even if I don't agree with it), and/or the Libdems to make themselves visible.
I wish I could find my posts suggesting that the Tories' 80-seat majority without a decent opposition would be a catastrophe for them and the country.0 -
I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.
Actually it's kinda fake news... that's what he was told to do.
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... or was set up.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.
Actually it's kinda fake news... that's what he was told to do.
Looks like he's just been trolled. 🤣The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
After being photographed looking as if he is carrying Cameron's and Cleverly's bags the other day I'm beginning to wonder.pblakeney said:
... or was set up.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.
Actually it's kinda fake news... that's what he was told to do.
Looks like he's just been trolled. 🤣
I've never heard of anyone using the cheek of a hammer to strike a punch although jeweller's hammers are a fun rabbit hole.
Was definitely told to use the cheek of the hammer but can't for the life of me think why. This is now going to annoy me all weekend. Thanks jewelry lady.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
After being photographed looking as if he is carrying Cameron's and Cleverly's bags the other day I'm beginning to wonder.pblakeney said:
... or was set up.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.
Actually it's kinda fake news... that's what he was told to do.
Looks like he's just been trolled. 🤣
I've never heard of anyone using the cheek of a hammer to strike a punch although jeweller's hammers are a fun rabbit hole.
Was definitely told to use the cheek of the hammer but can't for the life of me think why. This is now going to annoy me all weekend. Thanks jewelry lady.
I have a feeling the original tweet without the instruction to use the side of the hammer has been deleted. Here's an explanantion.
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ddraver said:
*hammer stuff*
We're discussing a load of tools on the Tory Party thread.1 -
An old friend of mine used to refer to vigorous intercourse* as, "bringing out the cock hammer."
This now has a second definition.
*I have not sought independent assessment of the effectiveness of this technique0 -
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I can see it's a planishing hammer. What I don't understand is why they gave him that to use on a punch. There is a pretty good selection of other jeweller's hammers on the bench.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
After being photographed looking as if he is carrying Cameron's and Cleverly's bags the other day I'm beginning to wonder.pblakeney said:
... or was set up.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:I've just seen a video of the Prime Minister using a hammer....
Well,...
...attempting to use a hammer.
😬
It's as though someone is deliberately setting him up.
Actually it's kinda fake news... that's what he was told to do.
Looks like he's just been trolled. 🤣
I've never heard of anyone using the cheek of a hammer to strike a punch although jeweller's hammers are a fun rabbit hole.
Was definitely told to use the cheek of the hammer but can't for the life of me think why. This is now going to annoy me all weekend. Thanks jewelry lady.
I have a feeling the original tweet without the instruction to use the side of the hammer has been deleted. Here's an explanantion.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
No one needs to see those trousers ever again.photonic69 said:0 -
They've already had two Corbyn moments.surrey_commuter said:
everybody should pray the Tories do alright at the election as otherwise they risk having their Corbyn moment from which they may never returnFirst.Aspect said:
It's more about stopping the bleeding Stevo.Stevo_666 said:
I admire your faith in Labour to make a difference but tbh I don't see how they are going to do that with pretty much same financial resources as they have now, a lack of experience in government and the inevitable queue of unions, public sector bodies, quangos etc outside Reeve's door all expecting a big pay day/funding rounds. And the hard left lurking beneath the surface, although at least they aren't in the driving seat currently.super_davo said:
This current government is historically bad. There is corruption, there is a cynical disregard for the public they serve, their record is poor across a wide range of areas and the public have lost faith with them. The country has never united after the hugely divisive referendum they called and they are not interested in fixing that, they will happily create divisions and culture wars to improve their chances of election.Stevo_666 said:
You were questioning why cut NI now so I assumed you saw that as a bad thing.super_davo said:
Why do you think I want more tax being collected?Stevo_666 said:
Let's give super davo a chance to answer the question himself.rjsterry said:
More tax is being collected. Just not quite as much more.Stevo_666 said:
I thought you would approve of more tax being collected?super_davo said:Thing I dislike is the cynicism of it all. Tax burdens have raised massively through freezing of tax bands throughout the high inflation period. We're not really in any better position financially than in any year of this parliament; borrowing is still sky high as are debt repayments.
Why cut NI now? Because they think we're all stupid enough to forget the last 13 years of being squeezed by seeing headlines like "Biggest tax cut since the 80s" from papers that are acting as propaganda machines. When the "stealth" freezing of the bands is effectively taking more than the cut is giving anyway.
It's all so cynical, and so far away from governing in the best interests of the country.
Overall tax burden of 40-45% is pretty normal in most Western economies and we're in that range. It's how you collect it and what you do with it that counts.
My biggest bugbear with the UK tax & benefit system is the money we spend on "in work benefits" and housing credit. That distorts both markets, because it means companies can offer and people accept lower wages than the market would settle on, and in respect of housing credit it basically just becomes a straight transfer from state to private landlords.
My second biggest bugbear is the cliff edge tax rates like when UC drops off or you start losing tax credits or personal tax credit threshold. These create crazy incentives, and there are fixes for each of these.
I don't subscribe to the "if its public it must be bad" mantra that has blighted this country since the 80s. We've privatised things that don't make sense to be privatised like water and public transport, put completely inadequate regulatory regimes in place, and end up paying subsidies to keep it all afloat.
Finally, I would like public services that work. I already pay a significant amount in tax, I don't want to have to spend more on top for private medical insurance, for education etc. If it means I have to pay more tax myself, that's fine. But paying the amount I already do for the chocolate teapot service we receive and then having to pay all over again smarts.
Thst said, do you see Labour or any other party fixing the problems that you mention above?
Labour are the only ticket out of here. They don't have to be very good to be an improvement. But I think they will be solid - they've got serious, non-dogmatic people in key roles, they are listening, they are making the right noises. There are a lot of things I don't like such as the "don't scare the red walk" approach to Europe, but even that is an improvement on today's position.
I think most people will acknowledge that the current Labour party aren't visionaries, and that the level of support is just "not Tory".
The most optimistic thing I can say is that this is nearing the end of the UKs flirt with populism, and that a new more moderate and boring Conservative party would quickly recover support.
This would require some of the current bunch to move on - bit like Man U, they've had several managers now and been censored for all of them - and for the gammon heavy membership to stop electing idiots.1 -
OK, everyone who said that CTPPPTTPPCC would only add 0.08% to GDP was wrong.
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It's easy to say that we need more care staff, therefore we should allow 10,000's (100,000's ?) of immigrants to fill the vacancies.
On the other hand, care providers should pay a lucrative wage sourced from their eye watering charges to entice the current unemployed to do the job.
Or maybe (as I suspect) they are happy with cheap imported labour, and campaign accordingly.1 -
"not doing much is undervalued in politicians"
Greece won the football European Championship by "not doing much". They won with a philosophy of not conceding goals.
I'd like to see British politicians aim a little higher. Ange Postecoglu could show them a thing or two.0 -
The vast majority of care is funded through local authorities who don’t have the money to pay for it. The reason pay in the sector is poor is that the companies providing the care can’t charge enough to pay more.bikes_and_dogs said:It's easy to say that we need more care staff, therefore we should allow 10,000's (100,000's ?) of immigrants to fill the vacancies.
On the other hand, care providers should pay a lucrative wage sourced from their eye watering charges to entice the current unemployed to do the job.
Or maybe (as I suspect) they are happy with cheap imported labour, and campaign accordingly.
My wife, in her previous job, was earning around £25k as second in charge of a company with around 50 staff. For that she was on call one week in three where she would have to take calls 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. In the case of two of her colleagues they found themselves suspended from work and under police investigation for 3 years after someone in their care choked to death (there were no charges in the end but that was 3 years of stress for everyone involve and a small company had to find the staff and money to cover those who were suspended).
A remember in the height of COVID the Government were going to put more money into social care. You’ll be shocked to learn it didn’t happen.0 -
I’m not disagreeing with what you’ve posted Pross but there is the issue of local authorities only willing to pay so much for people they are funding. Which the leads to care companies charge large fees for people who are self funding to make up the short fall.
My mother in law is currently self funding at £1,050 a week.0 -
Yeah, I suspect nobody would be able to provide residential care without self-funders having to pay over the odds. A bit like first class on a plane.0
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The care sector is low paid because it is regarded as unskilled. Which is true to the extent that entry into the sector doesn't require any formal qualifications.
And for context, if you train for 4 years to get a social work degree from a university, and get to senior practitioner level after a few years, the salary is still only in the mid-30s. And that somewhat defines the upper end of the scale for jobs that don't have that qualification.
If you ask me, social workers are vastly underpaid for the work they do, the unfair criticism they get in comparison to teachers, medical professionals and so on, and the stress they endure.0 -
Anyone who thinks they're getting a tax cut probably thinks loyalty card prices are great.0
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Bro’s not been to tescos recently.kingstongraham said:Anyone who thinks they're getting a tax cut probably thinks loyalty card prices are great.
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Oh dear.rick_chasey said:
Bro’s not been to tescos recently.kingstongraham said:Anyone who thinks they're getting a tax cut probably thinks loyalty card prices are great.
Enjoy your tax cut.0 -
Old pic. Today's price on Tesco website
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