LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    They're struggling to understand that it isn't core Tory values that got them elected, so no matter how authentically Tory they are, it is unlikely to appeal to a majority.

    Rather like Corbyn was just a far left candidate, Sunak is pretty right-wing compared to other Tory leaders so it's all he can really do.

    It's not in his nature to swing towards the centre.
    Interesting that I interpreted TBB's comment as a reference to the northen votes lent to them to get Brexit done.

    It always seemed a fair bet that they would not be so thick as to vote Tory twice. Once in Govt they should have assumed the old red wall would go back to it's roots and worked at keeping their own blue wall safe and identifying the new marginals and pouring resources into them.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    So I spend somewhat less per month on myself than someone so poor they need to move back home to mum and dad.

    I think it mainly comes down to coffee.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023
    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    But this is exactly the point I'm making.

    It's bluntly really unfair that because of how she looks she can't articulate her own views on immigration without being called a hypocrite, and if she wants to ingratiate herself with an anti-immigrant party, she needs to double down on that anti-immigration rhetoric to overcome how she looks.

    That's not on, and I think you need to take that into the context of why and how she is talking about this stuff.
    _
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    First.Aspect said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    So I spend somewhat less per month on myself than someone so poor they need to move back home to mum and dad.

    I think it mainly comes down to coffee.
    You guys really believe the premise that the average discretionary spend for under 30s is £18k a year?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    They're struggling to understand that it isn't core Tory values that got them elected, so no matter how authentically Tory they are, it is unlikely to appeal to a majority.

    Rather like Corbyn was just a far left candidate, Sunak is pretty right-wing compared to other Tory leaders so it's all he can really do.

    It's not in his nature to swing towards the centre.
    Interesting that I interpreted TBB's comment as a reference to the northen votes lent to them to get Brexit done.

    It always seemed a fair bet that they would not be so thick as to vote Tory twice. Once in Govt they should have assumed the old red wall would go back to it's roots and worked at keeping their own blue wall safe and identifying the new marginals and pouring resources into them.
    But immigration is right up there with their concerns.

    Did we not learn anything from Brexit.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    rick_chasey said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    But this is exactly the point I'm making.

    It's bluntly really unfair that because of how she looks she can't articulate her own views on immigration without being called a hypocrite, and if she wants to ingratiate herself with an anti-immigrant party, she needs to double down on that anti-immigration rhetoric to overcome how she looks.

    That's not on, and I think you need to take that into the context of why and how she is talking about this stuff.
    I don't see why it is a problem to oppose policies that benefitted you or your parents. Surely lots of politicians do this.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    kingstongraham said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    But this is exactly the point I'm making.

    It's bluntly really unfair that because of how she looks she can't articulate her own views on immigration without being called a hypocrite, and if she wants to ingratiate herself with an anti-immigrant party, she needs to double down on that anti-immigration rhetoric to overcome how she looks.

    That's not on, and I think you need to take that into the context of why and how she is talking about this stuff.
    I don't see why it is a problem to oppose policies that benefitted you or your parents. Surely lots of politicians do this.
    Because it's an identity issue and a race issue.

    Poster above said:
    Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism"


    That's exactly the problem. People instinctively see her as a posterchild for multiculturalism because she's brown. So if she's not into multiculturalism she has to be much more extreme to compensate and be considered authentically anti-multiculturalism.


    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    pangolin said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    So I spend somewhat less per month on myself than someone so poor they need to move back home to mum and dad.

    I think it mainly comes down to coffee.
    You guys really believe the premise that the average discretionary spend for under 30s is £18k a year?
    No. Should I have used an eyeroll emoji?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    That's the complete opposite of multiculturalism. I think the issue might be the misunderstanding of the concept.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    I think she was referring to integration having failed. Which might have a kernel of truth. However the solution would not seem to be to pull the draw bridge up. The thesis is totally incoherent, and is just a cynical veneer to disguise xenophobic policies.

    Being brown or white makes no difference. Xenophobia is very inclusive that way.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    First.Aspect said:



    Being brown or white makes no difference. Xenophobia is very inclusive that way.

    Who is the audience and why would she, as someone who everyone points out ought to be pro-multiculturalism because of the way she looks and who her parents are, say something like this?

    Come on guys, it's not that hard.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    First.Aspect said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    So I spend somewhat less per month on myself than someone so poor they need to move back home to mum and dad.

    I think it mainly comes down to coffee.
    And avocados.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    What I'm reading there is that in London if you don't do anything fun, in 10 years you'll have what would have been enough to put down a deposit on a house ten years ago. You might as well just enjoy yourself, no?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    kingstongraham said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    What I'm reading there is that in London if you don't do anything fun, in 10 years you'll have what would have been enough to put down a deposit on a house ten years ago. You might as well just enjoy yourself, no?
    Almost like that’s the logic already eh?

    10 years of a stagnant wages and vanishing prospects of home ownership anyway, why would you bother committing to a career?
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    edited September 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    Clearly it's up to everyone to decide how far they want/need to go. Would it not be useful for you as I thought you were looking to buy a bigger house?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    Clearly it's up to everyone to decide how far they want/need to go. Would it not be useful for you as I thought you were looking to buy a bigger house?
    Just have a think about it for a fraction of a second, Stevo.

    I could save well over £50k over 10 years just not going into the office, but I think we can all recognise that would be a loss making exercise.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    rick_chasey said:

    First.Aspect said:



    Being brown or white makes no difference. Xenophobia is very inclusive that way.

    Who is the audience and why would she, as someone who everyone points out ought to be pro-multiculturalism because of the way she looks and who her parents are, say something like this?

    Come on guys, it's not that hard.
    It is putting some nutter centre stage who happens to be brown, but is mainly a nutter, to make it okay for lots of racists to feel the way they do.

    It would take a great deal of visionary politics in other areas for me to turn a blind eye to the way the Tories behave in this respect.

    Fortunately they fick over so many other groups of people I identify with or empathise with, I'm not faced with a dilemma.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    This 'millenial expenses calculator' will make @surrey_commuter happy:
    https://telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/how-much-save-ditching-netflix-lattes/

    "Over 10 years, you could save £61,200."
    🤣🤣🤣
    Very good of them to suggest if I never go on holiday, never spend any money on clothes or any "entertainment" I can save £150k over 10 years.

    Miserable gits.
    Clearly it's up to everyone to decide how far they want/need to go. Would it not be useful for you as I thought you were looking to buy a bigger house?
    Just have a think about it for a fraction of a second, Stevo.

    I could save well over £50k over 10 years just not going into the office, but I think we can all recognise that would be a loss making exercise.
    I didn't say anything about commuting. Have a look at the link - there are lots of different areas of discretionary spend.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023


    It’s not as straightforward as everyone makes out and I’m pretty liberal on the immigration front.

    Definitely not just a problem created to generate clicks.
    _
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    That's the complete opposite of multiculturalism. I think the issue might be the misunderstanding of the concept.
    Is multiculturalism not a hodge podge and best of both/all worlds type concept.

    I'd suggest that marrying outside of your diaspora, whilst keeping your own religion, but also becoming a successful member of establishment professions, is quite multicultural.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    She's opposing the lack of integration. She has a Christian father and a Hindu mother and has married a Jewish man. She's not stuck in one culture living alongside another.

    I'm not agreeing with her, but position seems clear.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited September 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    But this is exactly the point I'm making.

    It's bluntly really unfair that because of how she looks she can't articulate her own views on immigration without being called a hypocrite, and if she wants to ingratiate herself with an anti-immigrant party, she needs to double down on that anti-immigration rhetoric to overcome how she looks.

    That's not on, and I think you need to take that into the context of why and how she is talking about this stuff.
    I think it's more that her argument of why immigration is a problem is not based on reality. She just makes stuff up.

    It's coincidental that the very person making the argument appears to disprove it but there are plenty of other examples within the senior Conservative Party and it would still be bollox if Jacob Rees-Mogg or anyone else had said it.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Also, to add, she considers herself, and is, British. I think some of the criticism probably could be filed in the racist category.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    TheBigBean said:

    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    She's opposing the lack of integration. She has a Christian father and a Hindu mother and has married a Jewish man. She's not stuck in one culture living alongside another.

    I'm not agreeing with her, but position seems clear.
    The idea of integration is pretty hilarious for a country known for it's marked social boundaries
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    edited September 2023
    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    That's the complete opposite of multiculturalism. I think the issue might be the misunderstanding of the concept.
    Is multiculturalism not a hodge podge and best of both/all worlds type concept.

    I'd suggest that marrying outside of your diaspora, whilst keeping your own religion, but also becoming a successful member of establishment professions, is quite multicultural.
    Multiculturalism is separate cultural or ethnic groups coexisting alongside each other without having to change their social practices or necessarily integrating with the dominant culture.

    That is absolutely not her background. The "melting pot" is exactly what multiculturalism is not.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Otoh, her comments are clearly ridiculous. Someone who's entire identity is a whacking great mix of "multiculturalism", saying it doesn't work...

    I don't believe her identity is anything to do with multiculturalism at all. It's pretty close to being the opposite of it.
    As previously pointed out she's a second generation immigrant married to someone of a different religious minority...pretty multicultural no?

    That's the complete opposite of multiculturalism. I think the issue might be the misunderstanding of the concept.
    Is multiculturalism not a hodge podge and best of both/all worlds type concept.

    I'd suggest that marrying outside of your diaspora, whilst keeping your own religion, but also becoming a successful member of establishment professions, is quite multicultural.
    Multiculturalism is separate cultural or ethnic groups coexisting alongside each other without having to change their social practices or necessarily integrating with the dominant culture.

    That is absolutely not her background. The "melting pot" is exactly what multiculturalism is not.
    This discussion is the whole point.

    People are making assumptions on her political persuasion because of her background and what she looks like.
    _

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