LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

I know of no one, other than small subsets of public sector workers - mostly in Scotland - who have had above inflation pay rises lately. And I don't see why any particular role should inherently be paid the same in relation to inflation over time. A failure to meet these criteria shouldn't be the definition of an unfair pay offer.

Hands up anyone who works in such a role, the value of which has remained static in relation to the cost of living over time?

I don't. Never have.

Loads of people. A lot.

First.Aspect

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

pblakeney

I'm probably an outlier but everyone I know either moves jobs or gets promoted.
This makes a wages to cost of living comparison tricky.

rick_chasey

Not gonna have a go at people wanting pay rises.

Entirely reasonable.

What's not reasonable is both sides in the train dispute just refusing to come to an agreement.

It must be more expensive to have this level of disruption than to settle. On both sides.

It's mad at this point. It's getting to be a year long now.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

It's basic supply and demand. There aren't enough train drivers and the system only works if drivers work overtime. Why would employees not exploit the situation?

rick_chasey

If you are interested in winding train drivers up, explaining to them that the only time they're on time is when they're striking, is a really good way to do it.

Highly effective.

Pross

In my sector, and I suspect in many other private sector jobs, you get pay rises when times are good and pay freezes / cuts / low rises when times are tough. The rises bear no relation to inflation at the time. When time are good and your skills are in demand a good employer will reward you to ensure you don't go looking around and you are in a strong position to knock on their door and ask for more or move to someone else. Conversely, when times are tough people are getting made redundant and you just keep your head down and hope to stay in a job which might require you to take a substantial cut because no-one else is recruiting.

Public sector and larger private sector employers that are still Unionised will have their national payscales with Unions that often ignore the wider financial climate who will demand wages increase with inflation but ignore any years where inflation was low and wage increases were higher. With many public sector jobs there isn't the option to move somewhere else as the payscales are national so unless you move with a promotion the only real option is to strike and get the national levels changed (not sure how it works in things like rail and whether the individual operators pay different rates?). They are in a position where, by definition, striking has an impact on the public so it is their biggest weapon although depending on their jobs they get portrayed as greedy scum causing inconvenience to the public or undervalued heroes who are deservedly striking to get the pay they deserve.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

If you are interested in winding train drivers up, explaining to them that the only time they're on time is when they're striking, is a really good way to do it.

Highly effective.

Everyone needs a hobby I guess.

rjsterry

Pross said:

In my sector, and I suspect in many other private sector jobs, you get pay rises when times are good and pay freezes / cuts / low rises when times are tough. The rises bear no relation to inflation at the time. When time are good and your skills are in demand a good employer will reward you to ensure you don't go looking around and you are in a strong position to knock on their door and ask for more or move to someone else. Conversely, when times are tough people are getting made redundant and you just keep your head down and hope to stay in a job which might require you to take a substantial cut because no-one else is recruiting.

Public sector and larger private sector employers that are still Unionised will have their national payscales with Unions that often ignore the wider financial climate who will demand wages increase with inflation but ignore any years where inflation was low and wage increases were higher. With many public sector jobs there isn't the option to move somewhere else as the payscales are national so unless you move with a promotion the only real option is to strike and get the national levels changed (not sure how it works in things like rail and whether the individual operators pay different rates?). They are in a position where, by definition, striking has an impact on the public so it is their biggest weapon although depending on their jobs they get portrayed as greedy scum causing inconvenience to the public or undervalued heroes who are deservedly striking to get the pay they deserve.

The operators are instructed what to pay. This is why the dispute has gone on so long.

rjsterry

Have donned marigolds and had a closer look at what the witless wonder was saying about multiculturalism. Seems to be yet more handwringing about 'British culture' (whatever TF that is) dying out due to migration. Apart from the unanswered question of why on earth any government should be dictating what a county's culture should be, she's obviously not very good at basic maths.

Jezyboy

Is she aware that "British culture dying out " is basically a dogwhistle for "there are too many people that look like Suella Braverman"

rjsterry

Jezyboy said:

Is she aware that "British culture dying out " is basically a dogwhistle for "there are too many people that look like Suella Braverman"

Aren't most people supposed to not be able to hear a dog whistle?

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

It's basic supply and demand. There aren't enough train drivers and the system only works if drivers work overtime. Why would employees not exploit the situation?

Sure, but post covid, ot cuts both ways. They were paid to do nothing for a year and now there's less demand. Pity.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

It's basic supply and demand. There aren't enough train drivers and the system only works if drivers work overtime. Why would employees not exploit the situation?

Sure, but post covid, ot cuts both ways. They were paid to do nothing for a year and now there's less demand. Pity.

Trains ran throughout Covid.

rick_chasey

There’s money for some things.

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1706958328599921044?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg

Especially as IHT returns are expected to grow massively over the next decade

briantrumpet

Defo worth following Dan Neidle on Twitter... he linked this one:

https://twitter.com/arunadvaniecon/status/1706817780627218785

rick_chasey

briantrumpet said:

Defo worth following Dan Neidle on Twitter... he linked this one:

https://twitter.com/arunadvaniecon/status/1706817780627218785

Yes his takes on the 100-125k tax bracket was a miserable reminder

shirley_basso

Better get above £125k pronto as the tax makes it a horrible place to be trapped.

First.Aspect

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

It's basic supply and demand. There aren't enough train drivers and the system only works if drivers work overtime. Why would employees not exploit the situation?

Sure, but post covid, ot cuts both ways. They were paid to do nothing for a year and now there's less demand. Pity.

Trains ran throughout Covid.

At weekend levels.

TheBigBean

Just put everything in excess of £100k in a pension pot

Pross

shirley_basso said:

Better get above £125k pronto as the tax makes it a horrible place to be trapped.

Yeah, I'd be gutted to be earning £125k and having to pay more tax

Pross

Biodiversity net gain is the latest environmental policy the Government have decided to kick down the road https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66927242

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

I would guess must of my colleagues have received near inflation pay rises. Although that's a sample based on the under 40s, so at a time where your role is increasing in responsibility...

We've also had multiple rounds of pay rises a year for the past couple of years.

Pay scales do need to be seen in the context of inflation. But inflation isn't really the single number it's represented as.

That's not how the unions assess inflationary pay rises, they are arguing for the entire pay scale to move with inflation. They argue based on some hypothetical position each individual would be in without inflation.

A lot of these jobs, in academia and local council roles in particular, there is an almost guaranteed pay scale increment providing you haven't died or reached the top of it (which is comparatively rare). Those don't count as pay rises.

So whilst I sympathise that it is crepe when you don't get as much as you want, some people need to put the big boy trousers on and suck it up some years.

It's basic supply and demand. There aren't enough train drivers and the system only works if drivers work overtime. Why would employees not exploit the situation?

Sure, but post covid, ot cuts both ways. They were paid to do nothing for a year and now there's less demand. Pity.

Trains ran throughout Covid.

At weekend levels.

Which is still enough trains to keep all drivers fully employed.

rjsterry

Pross said:

Biodiversity net gain is the latest environmental policy the Government have decided to kick down the road https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66927242

Trying to pretend that this is the problem with the planning system rather than trying to run it with a skeleton staff and no money.

shirley_basso

Pross said:

shirley_basso said:

Better get above £125k pronto as the tax makes it a horrible place to be trapped.

Yeah, I'd be gutted to be earning £125k and having to pay more tax

It doesn't quite work like that. Basically once you hit £100k, if your circumstances are just right (or wrong) your cost of living will accelerate faster than earnings.

EG:
- you lose 15 hours per week (per parent) free childcare immediately
- I think you lose access to the 20% government top up
- tax free allowance starts to taper off

Hence if you earn £100k, then pay everything above into a pension. I imagine that for some with young children and a high LTV mortgage which is about to expire, a bloody frustrating place to be.

veronese68

Pross said:

In my sector, and I suspect in many other private sector jobs, you get pay rises when times are good and pay freezes / cuts / low rises when times are tough. The rises bear no relation to inflation at the time.

Very much this, nothing last year and 2% this year. Hasn't affected me as badly as others, thankfully our mortgage will be paid off this year.

TheBigBean

shirley_basso said:

Pross said:

shirley_basso said:

Better get above £125k pronto as the tax makes it a horrible place to be trapped.

Yeah, I'd be gutted to be earning £125k and having to pay more tax

It doesn't quite work like that. Basically once you hit £100k, if your circumstances are just right (or wrong) your cost of living will accelerate faster than earnings.

EG:
- you lose 15 hours per week (per parent) free childcare immediately
- I think you lose access to the 20% government top up
- tax free allowance starts to taper off

Hence if you earn £100k, then pay everything above into a pension. I imagine that for some with young children and a high LTV mortgage which is about to expire, a bloody frustrating place to be.

I don't think you lose the free nursery hours immediately, but rather in the next tax year. I could be wrong on that though. I did spend a while trying to figure out how it works for the self-employed. I suspect your point was that it is a hair trigger.

shirley_basso

Sorry I meant more that it doesn't taper off, you lose it all at once, so makes that £99,999 -> £100,001 taxable income increase, actually very expensive. In the short term you can offset with pension increases, but eventually (i.e in the mortgage situation) you may find you actually need that cash.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

shirley_basso said:

Better get above £125k pronto as the tax makes it a horrible place to be trapped.

Yeah, I'd be gutted to be earning £125k and having to pay more tax

I would hate that.

briantrumpet

Does anyone actually pay for this?

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1707122293279789558