TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*
Comments
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RoadPainter wrote:
Indeed. Tom doesn't have a train in front of him and is rarely the favourite, so is spared the dislike.RichN95 wrote:
Yet the same people that call Sky boring seem to love Tom Dumoulin, the rider Sky would create if they were able to.RoadPainter wrote:
Fair point!Rick Chasey wrote:Guarantee you 95% of people by the side of the road and watching won't know what the hell the MPCC is.
Still think style of racing and refusal to acknowledge fans has a lot to do with it - it's a sky thing rather than a Froome thing.
Yes he does. He has the Sky train, the Sky team leader and (usually) most of the other GT contenders sat in front of him. He is probably the least attacking leader there is, Froome is a far more exciting rider when he needs to be. That’s not a criticism though, he’s the best time triallist in the current peloton and able to follow wheels in the mountain so that’s all he needs to do. He is very similar to Wiggins but using another team’s train as his own team has no strength in depth for GTs. His only problem is he currently needs to make up a near 2 minute deficit on someone who is also a very good tester so either needs to attack or hope that G cracks.0 -
Bloody hell when did Kermode and Mayo hijack the forum?
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I'd swap the word 'exciting' for 'attacking'. I find Froome boring, even when he attacks, because he is so dominant. His attacks don't excite me in the way other riders' attacks do because there is no longer any sense of risk in the attack, just a sense of inevitability.Pross wrote:RoadPainter wrote:
Indeed. Tom doesn't have a train in front of him and is rarely the favourite, so is spared the dislike.RichN95 wrote:
Yet the same people that call Sky boring seem to love Tom Dumoulin, the rider Sky would create if they were able to.RoadPainter wrote:
Fair point!Rick Chasey wrote:Guarantee you 95% of people by the side of the road and watching won't know what the hell the MPCC is.
Still think style of racing and refusal to acknowledge fans has a lot to do with it - it's a sky thing rather than a Froome thing.
Yes he does. He has the Sky train, the Sky team leader and (usually) most of the other GT contenders sat in front of him. He is probably the least attacking leader there is, Froome is a far more exciting rider when he needs to be. That’s not a criticism though, he’s the best time triallist in the current peloton and able to follow wheels in the mountain so that’s all he needs to do. He is very similar to Wiggins but using another team’s train as his own team has no strength in depth for GTs. His only problem is he currently needs to make up a near 2 minute deficit on someone who is also a very good tester so either needs to attack or hope that G cracks.0 -
OnYourRight wrote:
Kruijswijk sort of tried that the other day. For a while it looked like it might even succeed. If it had been this Tour’s Dumoulin it probably would have worked, but then Dumoulin wouldn’t have got away.RichN95 wrote:As someone wrote on twitter: "If anyone showed a way to beat Sky it was Chris Froome on stage 19 of the Giro."
The main difference was that Sky decimated the field such that by the time Froome attacked he was only being chased by 5 riders, 3 of whom weren't really chasing. By contrast, when Kruijswijk attacked, Sky alone had that many in the group, and they made inroads into him on the flat road to the Alpe, with the leaders relatively fresh so they could finish the job. If it was Kruijswijk versus a handful of leaders on their own then it may have been a different story.0 -
Yeah but Sky learnt that lesson on stage 15 of the 2016 Vuelta and won't let it happen again.phreak wrote:OnYourRight wrote:
Kruijswijk sort of tried that the other day. For a while it looked like it might even succeed. If it had been this Tour’s Dumoulin it probably would have worked, but then Dumoulin wouldn’t have got away.RichN95 wrote:As someone wrote on twitter: "If anyone showed a way to beat Sky it was Chris Froome on stage 19 of the Giro."
The main difference was that Sky decimated the field such that by the time Froome attacked he was only being chased by 5 riders, 3 of whom weren't really chasing. By contrast, when Kruijswijk attacked, Sky alone had that many in the group, and they made inroads into him on the flat road to the Alpe, with the leaders relatively fresh so they could finish the job. If it was Kruijswijk versus a handful of leaders on their own then it may have been a different story.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
I'd swap the word 'exciting' for 'attacking'. I find Froome boring, even when he attacks, because he is so dominant. His attacks don't excite me in the way other riders' attacks do because there is no longer any sense of risk in the attack, just a sense of inevitability.Pross wrote:RoadPainter wrote:
Indeed. Tom doesn't have a train in front of him and is rarely the favourite, so is spared the dislike.RichN95 wrote:
Yet the same people that call Sky boring seem to love Tom Dumoulin, the rider Sky would create if they were able to.RoadPainter wrote:
Fair point!Rick Chasey wrote:Guarantee you 95% of people by the side of the road and watching won't know what the hell the MPCC is.
Still think style of racing and refusal to acknowledge fans has a lot to do with it - it's a sky thing rather than a Froome thing.
Yes he does. He has the Sky train, the Sky team leader and (usually) most of the other GT contenders sat in front of him. He is probably the least attacking leader there is, Froome is a far more exciting rider when he needs to be. That’s not a criticism though, he’s the best time triallist in the current peloton and able to follow wheels in the mountain so that’s all he needs to do. He is very similar to Wiggins but using another team’s train as his own team has no strength in depth for GTs. His only problem is he currently needs to make up a near 2 minute deficit on someone who is also a very good tester so either needs to attack or hope that G cracks.
What does he have to do to be classed as exciting then? He's more exciting than other riders when they attack, ie Quintana0 -
I assume Deadcalm is just saying that when Froome attacks you know it tends to work so you lose the excitement of jeopardy whereas with others it can go either way (90% of the time it fails if they have anything meaningful to gain, more if you’re Quintana!). I see their point but it’s effectively saying he’s too good which makes him boring.
Others on here are still talking about Sky as if they haven’t changed tactic since 2012 which is plainly bollox. That mountain train was the right tactic for Wiggins but really was full.0 -
Sorry I had had a couple of beers, always makes me more contrary...Pross wrote:Bloody hell when did Kermode and Mayo hijack the forum?0 -
Are the hills they'll be riding in the Pyrenees really that distinctively different to the climbs they've already ridden in the Alps? The profiles don't look that different but maybe there's more subtle differences?2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
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They tend to be steeper, have more changeable gradients and have worse road surfaces. Also there's less valley between them.larkim wrote:Are the hills they'll be riding in the Pyrenees really that distinctively different to the climbs they've already ridden in the Alps? The profiles don't look that different but maybe there's more subtle differences?Twitter: @RichN950 -
so did EvansOnYourRight wrote:Quintana pushes a big gear.0 -
i watched the highlights again last night . as the leaders came to the barriers there were fans standing in front of them . whats the point in barriers if they dont keep the fans back . after the crash the police were telling them to move back :roll:RichN95 wrote:
Take Nibali out of it and it's disappointing. But hey, Flares! Fancy Dress! Selfies!PBlakeney wrote:Take Dumoulin out of the equation and it will be a tedious TdF unless you are a Sky/Froome/GT fan. The conspiracies will have to be ramped up to keep it interesting.0 -
Indeed. Jeopardy is a much better word though.Pross wrote:I assume Deadcalm is just saying that when Froome attacks you know it tends to work so you lose the excitement of jeopardy whereas with others it can go either way (90% of the time it fails if they have anything meaningful to gain, more if you’re Quintana!). I see their point but it’s effectively saying he’s too good which makes him boring.
Others on here are still talking about Sky as if they haven’t changed tactic since 2012 which is plainly bollox. That mountain train was the right tactic for Wiggins but really was full.
With others, the attacks fail 90% of the time because Sky are so damned efficient at negating them.0 -
I dunno, Froomes attack on stage 19 of the Giro was pretty exciting. I thought there was jeopardy, I think anyone claiming they genuinely thought when he went away on the Finestre he was going to win the stage and the race is probably fibbing.0
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Now we’re talking. This is the only language guys like Prudhomme understand.RichN95 wrote:According to Gazzetta, Bahrain-Merida are preparing to take legal action against ASO.0 -
As Froome has tried more audacious challenges (e.g. this Giro-Tour double) and as his career arc descends, the outcome of his attacks has become less inevitable. In the stage under discussion he couldn’t shake his domestique.0
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bobmcstuff wrote:I dunno, Froomes attack on stage 19 of the Giro was pretty exciting. I thought there was jeopardy, I think anyone claiming they genuinely thought when he went away on the Finestre he was going to win the stage and the race is probably fibbing.
Exciting is a subjective word.
I was working during the actual attack. By the time I switched on he was away with over a minute, his lead was steadily increasing and the only question in my mind was how much time he was going to win by.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:I dunno, Froomes attack on stage 19 of the Giro was pretty exciting. I thought there was jeopardy, I think anyone claiming they genuinely thought when he went away on the Finestre he was going to win the stage and the race is probably fibbing.
Exciting is a subjective word.
I was working during the actual attack. By the time I switched on he was away with over a minute, his lead was steadily increasing and the only question in my mind was how much time he was going to win by.
And if you'd only switched the TV on for the last km it would have been boring as hell as it was absolutely obvious by then that he'd won. If you miss the exciting bit then you miss the exciting bit, it doesn't make it boring, it means you missed it.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Exciting is still subjective.No tA Doctor wrote:DeadCalm wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:I dunno, Froomes attack on stage 19 of the Giro was pretty exciting. I thought there was jeopardy, I think anyone claiming they genuinely thought when he went away on the Finestre he was going to win the stage and the race is probably fibbing.
Exciting is a subjective word.
I was working during the actual attack. By the time I switched on he was away with over a minute, his lead was steadily increasing and the only question in my mind was how much time he was going to win by.
And if you'd only switched the TV on for the last km it would have been boring as hell as it was absolutely obvious by then that he'd won. If you miss the exciting bit then you miss the exciting bit, it doesn't make it boring, it means you missed it.
Froome made a brilliant attack from 80 kilometres out. I caught the last 60 kilometres or so. I didn't find it exciting. If I'd seen the actual attack, I doubt I'd have been particularly excited then either but, who knows.
Why do people on this forum get so worked up when peoples' opinions don't match their own?0 -
An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.0
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bobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.
This.
You take a ridiculous climb, the Cima Coppi of the Giro with 21 hairpins at the bottom and gravel roads at the top, and guy that needs to pull minutes back attacks 80km out to solo to not only the stage but the Maglia Rosa, despite two fairly major climbs to come.... I'm just left a bit gobsmacked that anyone could find that anything other than exciting. It's the sort of attack that people should be talking about in 50 years time.
Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I only ever switch on the TV during the podium presentations, and as such have never found bike racing to be exciting. It's just some guy getting a teddy and spraying some pop.
What's the big deal? Anyone could do that.0 -
I am not saying that I wasn't impressed. What he did was ridiculous. I felt many emotions as I watched a guy I dislike riding with comparative ease away from two of my favourites whilst another of my favourites suffered a catastrophic collapse. Excitement wasn't one of them. Sorry if that offends.No tA Doctor wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.
This.
You take a ridiculous climb, the Cima Coppi of the Giro with 21 hairpins at the bottom and gravel roads at the top, and guy that needs to pull minutes back attacks 80km out to solo to not only the stage but the Maglia Rosa, despite two fairly major climbs to come.... I'm just left a bit gobsmacked that anyone could find that anything other than exciting. It's the sort of attack that people should be talking about in 50 years time.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
I am not saying that I wasn't impressed. What he did was ridiculous. I felt many emotions as I watched a guy I dislike riding with comparative ease away from two of my favourites whilst another of my favourites suffered a catastrophic collapse. Excitement wasn't one of them. Sorry if that offends.No tA Doctor wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.
This.
You take a ridiculous climb, the Cima Coppi of the Giro with 21 hairpins at the bottom and gravel roads at the top, and guy that needs to pull minutes back attacks 80km out to solo to not only the stage but the Maglia Rosa, despite two fairly major climbs to come.... I'm just left a bit gobsmacked that anyone could find that anything other than exciting. It's the sort of attack that people should be talking about in 50 years time.
Its only exciting if you're emotionally attached to it. If it was Nibali doing the same I'd have probably switched off."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
gsk82 wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
I am not saying that I wasn't impressed. What he did was ridiculous. I felt many emotions as I watched a guy I dislike riding with comparative ease away from two of my favourites whilst another of my favourites suffered a catastrophic collapse. Excitement wasn't one of them. Sorry if that offends.No tA Doctor wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.
This.
You take a ridiculous climb, the Cima Coppi of the Giro with 21 hairpins at the bottom and gravel roads at the top, and guy that needs to pull minutes back attacks 80km out to solo to not only the stage but the Maglia Rosa, despite two fairly major climbs to come.... I'm just left a bit gobsmacked that anyone could find that anything other than exciting. It's the sort of attack that people should be talking about in 50 years time.
Its only exciting if you're emotionally attached to it. If it was Nibali doing the same I'd have probably switched off.
Emotionally attached?
I must be wired differently to some of you lot.
I don't care if I like the bloke or not. They do something special, I get excited.
It's what bike racing is and should be about."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Personally if that giro attack wasn't exciting then maybe you don't find cycling exciting?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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its absolutely baffling how a 80k solo ride to win a grand tour is now called boringbobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.0 -
Who called it boring?Topper harley wrote:
its absolutely baffling how a 80k solo ride to win a grand tour is now called boringbobmcstuff wrote:An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.
What is boring is defending my own feelings from the Opinion Gestapo.
I'm stepping out of this discussion.0
