Giro 2018, Stage 19: Turin - Monte Jafferau - 184 kilometres. *Spoilers*

durhamwasp

Anyone know what tyres Froome (or the peleton generally) were using on the Finestre?

blazing_saddles

:oops: wrong thread. :oops:

iainf72

This is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... LcZkrykEtI

Like how Tom knew what Froome would do

gsk82

iainf72 wrote:

This is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... LcZkrykEtI

Like how Tom knew what Froome would do

Froome is certainly in everyone else's heads.

tailwindhome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTwi97SGjs4

Stage 19 backstage pass

r0bh

iainf72 wrote:

This is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... LcZkrykEtI

Like how Tom knew what Froome would do

Tom got one prediction right "if I reach the summit within half a minute or a minute behind" but one wrong "well I can close a gap of half a minute in the descent"

bobmcstuff

gsk82 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... LcZkrykEtI

Like how Tom knew what Froome would do

Froome is certainly in everyone else's heads.

Shows what we know - Tom clearly wasn't surprised by what Froome did!

DeadCalm

TailWindHome wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTwi97SGjs4

Stage 19 backstage pass

Thanks. I found it quite moving.

blazing_saddles

r0bh wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

This is quite good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... LcZkrykEtI

Like how Tom knew what Froome would do

Tom got one prediction right "if I reach the summit within half a minute or a minute behind" but one wrong "well I can close a gap of half a minute in the descent"

https://www.homeartisan.in/products/seb ... hion-cover

cq20

I see Ross Tucker is sounding off

https://mobile.twitter.com/Scienceofspo ... 20-22.html

Been seeing this a lot. First, it’s not true. It was 49% on climbs, 29% on descents, 22% on flats. Second, it means working (hard) the whole time, no respite, no shelter, & still taking time. If anything, the numbers make the performance MORE remarkable. They’re not mitigating

RichN95.

cq20 wrote:

I see Ross Tucker is sounding off

https://mobile.twitter.com/Scienceofspo ... 20-22.html

Been seeing this a lot. First, it’s not true. It was 49% on climbs, 29% on descents, 22% on flats. Second, it means working (hard) the whole time, no respite, no shelter, & still taking time. If anything, the numbers make the performance MORE remarkable. They’re not mitigating

His numbers aren't correct though.

Froome's lead over Dumoulin at various points was (when he passed those points)
Finistere Summit: 0.37
Intermediate sprint: 1.51
Sestriere Summit: 2.41
20km to go: 3.10
Base of final climb: 3.20
Finish: 3.23

I've seen a lot of rebranding of shallow descents as flats

salsiccia1

This performance just confirms what you already think and can be spun to suit your point of view.
1. Froome, the best stage race rider of the last decade, aided by Sky with meticulous planning pulled off the perfect attack to win the race.
Or
2. Froome, the biggest cheat of the last decade, abetted by an underhand organisation carried out a literally unbelievable attack to steal a race he shouldn't be racing.

I think it's the first of these, but it's inevitable that many see it as the second, given the radicalised fan base and the AAF.

cruff

RichN95 wrote:

cq20 wrote:

I see Ross Tucker is sounding off

https://mobile.twitter.com/Scienceofspo ... 20-22.html

Been seeing this a lot. First, it’s not true. It was 49% on climbs, 29% on descents, 22% on flats. Second, it means working (hard) the whole time, no respite, no shelter, & still taking time. If anything, the numbers make the performance MORE remarkable. They’re not mitigating

His numbers aren't correct though.

Froome's lead over Dumoulin at various points was (when he passed those points)
Finistere Summit: 0.37
Intermediate sprint: 1.51
Sestriere Summit: 2.41
20km to go: 3.10
Base of final climb: 3.20
Finish: 3.23

I've seen a lot of rebranding of shallow descents as flats

I wouldn't get too concerned about 'facts'. Tucker and 'facts' aren't that well acquainted if they don't drive his narrative...

above_the_cows

And as surely as night follows day...

cq20 wrote:

...I see Ross Tucker is sounding off

above_the_cows

Ross Tucker wrote:

22% on flats.

What f*cking flats? There is NO flat there. Nothing, niks, nada. And I KNOW what flat looks like and that route isn't it, it's either up or down. Nothing in-between. From my own Garmin files, I can cobble together the route from the top of the Finestre to Jafferau, so what 70km of Froome's 80km (I haven't done the north side of the Finestre) and my data shows not one piece of flat.

rick_chasey

f*ck me this is tedious.

Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

I said it elsewhere, if you have 20 years worth of doped up cycling, pretty much every race today will have one from that is similar. There will be a whole bunch of junior races that look like doped up races.

In fact, does anyone actually know what a doped up peloton does to tactics? I'm pretty sure it does barely anything, save for making drafting fractionally more efficient since they're going marginally faster.

Why f*cking bother watching? I mean, seriously. What racing DO they want?

No_Ta_Doctor

Above The Cows wrote:

Ross Tucker wrote:

22% on flats.

What f*cking flats? There is NO flat there. Nothing, niks, nada. And I KNOW what flat looks like and that route isn't it, it's either up or down. Nothing in-between. From my own Garmin files, I can cobble together the route from the top of the Finestre to Jafferau, so what 70km of Froome's 80km (I haven't done the north side of the Finestre) and my data shows not one piece of flat.

W/Kg please. We need to know if you were on the gear.

ddraver

FWIW Rick I ve totally come around to your point of view in terms of 'feck it, just watch and enjoy'

I can totally get behind the 'this is just a rubbish doping scandal' thing too

cq20

RichN95

His numbers aren't correct though.

Froome's lead over Dumoulin at various points was (when he passed those points)
Finistere Summit: 0.37
Intermediate sprint: 1.51
Sestriere Summit: 2.41
20km to go: 3.10
Base of final climb: 3.20
Finish: 3.23

Thanks for that. It is the malicious nature of Tucker that is troubling. It seems to be an obsession

above_the_cows

No tA Doctor wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Ross Tucker wrote:

22% on flats.

What f*cking flats? There is NO flat there. Nothing, niks, nada. And I KNOW what flat looks like and that route isn't it, it's either up or down. Nothing in-between. From my own Garmin files, I can cobble together the route from the top of the Finestre to Jafferau, so what 70km of Froome's 80km (I haven't done the north side of the Finestre) and my data shows not one piece of flat.

W/Kg please. We need to know if you were on the gear.

By gear do you mean, wine, raclette, fondue or pizza? And my W/Kg are of course dependent on said gear and whether I've seen a marmot.

No_Ta_Doctor

Above The Cows wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Ross Tucker wrote:

22% on flats.

What f*cking flats? There is NO flat there. Nothing, niks, nada. And I KNOW what flat looks like and that route isn't it, it's either up or down. Nothing in-between. From my own Garmin files, I can cobble together the route from the top of the Finestre to Jafferau, so what 70km of Froome's 80km (I haven't done the north side of the Finestre) and my data shows not one piece of flat.

W/Kg please. We need to know if you were on the gear.

By gear do you mean, wine, raclette, fondue or pizza? And my W/Kg are of course dependent on said gear and whether I've seen a marmot.

Marmots. You either love 'em or you hate 'em.

above_the_cows

rick_chasey

What I am expecting is every 4th cat to be nicking their mate’s blue inhaler, going nuts with it and still crashing into the first rear wheel they see.

Vino'sGhost

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Well I feel a Froome pink

Why, how is he gonna beat Dumoulin by minutes?

Another accurate forecast brought to you

rick_chasey

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Well I feel a Froome pink

Why, how is he gonna beat Dumoulin by minutes?

Another accurate forecast brought to you

Yeah.

Who’d have predicted an 80km out solo for the best solo ride in a GT for 6-7 years?

And from a rider not known for riding aggressively.

phreak

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Well I feel a Froome pink

Why, how is he gonna beat Dumoulin by minutes?

Another accurate forecast brought to you

Yeah.

Who’d have predicted an 80km out solo for the best solo ride in a GT for 6-7 years?

And from a rider not known for riding aggressively.

I'd say rather than not riding aggressively, Sky are known for riding the percentages. Here, they wouldn't have got the time needed had they waited for the final ascent, so it made sense to try and shatter the group early on and go man against man. I'd be surprised if they repeated the tactic as I'd be surprised if they were in a position of needing to again.

Vino'sGhost

phreak wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Well I feel a Froome pink

Why, how is he gonna beat Dumoulin by minutes?

Another accurate forecast brought to you

Yeah.

Who’d have predicted an 80km out solo for the best solo ride in a GT for 6-7 years?

And from a rider not known for riding aggressively.

I'd say rather than not riding aggressively, Sky are known for riding the percentages. Here, they wouldn't have got the time needed had they waited for the final ascent, so it made sense to try and shatter the group early on and go man against man. I'd be surprised if they repeated the tactic as I'd be surprised if they were in a position of needing to again.

But Froome is aggressive, and also measured. It was a great attack on a weakened opposition. And yes it was a do or die attack that happened to have worked this time but in fairness Yates was there to be disposed of and Tom looked on the edge by the tt. It had a good chance of working but it needed to be made to work.
Awesome ride.

pblakeney

Isn’t it amazing how some seem to think Froome is conservative?
He changed all that after his attack on the Peyesourde.
He just judges when to attack, and when to match.

rick_chasey

PBlakeney wrote:

Isn’t it amazing how some seem to think Froome is conservative?
He changed all that after his attack on the Peyesourde.
He just judges when to attack, and when to match.

Ok this attack on the Peyesourde.

It was about the lowest risk attack you can do.

That decent is 80% terminal velocity.

Don't get me wrong, it's great he did it, but attacking on the final decent of a very fast, non-technical decent is hardly dan dare stuff.

Nibali does more than that on an average week.

80km out on the queen stage and turning into a man v man race is a totally different kettle of fish.

larkim

Surely attacks should be measured by their success rather than their frequency? There's no point being an attacking rider if every time your attack falls apart because it was misjudged in the context of the race. I know fans like a bit of panache, but if every time Lionel Messi got the ball on the half way line he tried to do an overhead kick into the goal he wouldn't be winning many friends as a footballerist.

Froome's attacking riding is calculated and effective. The fact that he doesn't need to do it that often because he has TT time in the bag and he can generally match most of his opponents climbing breaks through an unflappable temperament and being able to tap out a sustained high tempo pace means he doesn't need to risk very often. It's not unlike Mo Farah, much derided by many running fans because he "only" can sit and kick to win championship medals. But if it works...