Milano-Sanremo 2018 *Spoilers*

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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    tim000 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Exactly my thoughts... plus, he could never handle Contador at his best (who, in turn, wasn’t able to cope with Froome at his best)...
    .

    Froome and Contador are phenomenal stage race climbers, but I've never seen them doing anything else. .
    froome has an olympic bronze in the TT

    Hardly a bicycle race. He probably had to beat 2-3 realistic opponents to earn that bronze. One of them was probably Pinotti, if memory doesn't fail me.

    To win the Tour the France you need to crush around 5-6 realistic contenders and maybe another 4-5 that could in a parallel universe win a GT. Health being well, and avoiding crashes, a top 5 finish is almost a given for Froome... that can be achieved without trying too hard.

    To win Milan Sanremo you need to cross the line ahead of at least another 50 riders who are there to win and could realistically win the race.
    You could win or not make the top 30 even if you have the best day of the season. It's that hard!
    left the forum March 2023
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    tim000 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Exactly my thoughts... plus, he could never handle Contador at his best (who, in turn, wasn’t able to cope with Froome at his best)...
    .

    Froome and Contador are phenomenal stage race climbers, but I've never seen them doing anything else. .
    froome has an olympic bronze in the TT

    Hardly a bicycle race. He probably had to beat 2-3 realistic opponents to earn that bronze. One of them was probably Pinotti, if memory doesn't fail me.

    To win the Tour the France you need to crush around 5-6 realistic contenders and maybe another 4-5 that could in a parallel universe win a GT. Health being well, and avoiding crashes, a top 5 finish is almost a given for Froome... that can be achieved without trying too hard.

    To win Milan Sanremo you need to cross the line ahead of at least another 50 riders who are there to win and could realistically win the race.
    You could win or not make the top 30 even if you have the best day of the season. It's that hard!

    i think you are understating how hard a 21-day stage race is but you make a valid point.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    mididoctors wrote:

    i think you are understating how hard a 21-day stage race is but you make a valid point.

    Physically harder, but easier to win... can't think of anyone who won 3-4-5 Sanremo, Liegi or Roubaix in a row in modern days, which seems to be the norm at TdF these days
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    ugo.santalucia wrote:

    To win the Tour the France you need to crush around 5-6 realistic contenders and maybe another 4-5 that could in a parallel universe win a GT. Health being well, and avoiding crashes, a top 5 finish is almost a given for Froome... that can be achieved without trying too hard.

    To win Milan Sanremo you need to cross the line ahead of at least another 50 riders who are there to win and could realistically win the race.
    You could win or not make the top 30 even if you have the best day of the season. It's that hard!
    And yet the likes of Matt Goss, Arnaud Demare and Gerald Ciolek have won it. Riders with fairly modest palmares.

    Lotteries are hard to win.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Who was the last Grand Tour winner to win MSR?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • ShutupJens
    ShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    All of this shows just how exceptional Cancellara's record at monuments was. Think it was something like 12, 13 podiums in a row in monuments that he started?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Who was the last Grand Tour winner to win MSR?
    Kelly I think. The last Tour winner would be Fignon

    Correction: Jalabert (although the Vuelta wasn't what it is now back then)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    So what do we think of Nibali's chances of three monuments in a row? Here's what he said last month;
    "I like to think I'm more than just a Grand Tour rider. I've won Il Lombardia twice, I've gone close to winning Milan-San Remo from an attack, so why not try the Tour of Flanders too," Nibali told Cyclingnews.
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,647
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.
    _
  • ContrelaMontre
    ContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go
    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    All the Nibali talk (of which i heartily approve, has meant we've all overlooked Ewans tremendous performance. 10th last year and now 2nd, so surely a future winner?
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,448
    People have been saying the same about Sagan since 2012...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,647
    inseine wrote:
    All the Nibali talk (of which i heartily approve, has meant we've all overlooked Ewans tremendous performance. 10th last year and now 2nd, so surely a future winner?

    Let's all hope not.

    But yes, rode that rather well.

    Trentin would have been better riding with the peloton than out ahead mind.
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    Ok
    You don't like Nibali
    What if I told you he knocked a spectator's phone flying in the run in.
    You'd change your mind then?

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/975298695599149056
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • ShutupJens
    ShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    How long do you think that bloke stood on the barriers for, in order to not look when the leader rider was coming past?
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    What sort of person designs a route and leaves it at 294 km?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • richard_t._biscuit
    richard_t._biscuit Posts: 246
    ShutupJens wrote:
    How long do you think that bloke stood on the barriers for, in order to not look when the leader rider was coming past?
    I figure he forgot there is a bit of a delay on ES Player.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    ShutupJens wrote:
    All of this shows just how exceptional Cancellara's record at monuments was. Think it was something like 12, 13 podiums in a row in monuments that he started?

    Beast.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    All the Nibali talk (of which i heartily approve, has meant we've all overlooked Ewans tremendous performance. 10th last year and now 2nd, so surely a future winner?

    Let's all hope not.

    But yes, rode that rather well.

    Trentin would have been better riding with the peloton than out ahead mind.

    How come you don't like Ewan?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go

    Don't see why not... if he attacks on the Paterberg, who is going to follow?
    left the forum March 2023
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Ok
    You don't like Nibali
    What if I told you he knocked a spectator's phone flying in the run in.
    You'd change your mind then?

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/975298695599149056

    Imagine the comments on here if he’d knocked nibali off .
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    Milton50 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    inseine wrote:
    All the Nibali talk (of which i heartily approve, has meant we've all overlooked Ewans tremendous performance. 10th last year and now 2nd, so surely a future winner?

    Let's all hope not.

    But yes, rode that rather well.

    Trentin would have been better riding with the peloton than out ahead mind.

    How come you don't like Ewan?

    It's funny, the podium seemed to consist of the three most disliked riders in the race.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go

    Don't see why not... if he attacks on the Paterberg, who is going to follow?

    Even if he could get a gap at the top of the Paterberg (which I think he would find difficult), there are 13 flat km to the finish. I can't see it.
  • philbar72
    philbar72 Posts: 2,229
    Great win from a great rider, other things to note were bot the supposed favourites (Kwiatko and Sagan) delaying/ messing around with in their chase, and also the wrong folk offering up a chase, Trentin has always fallen just short when he’s had to pull a very strong rider back, he’s strong for sure but not quite strong enough. The finish is made for Ewan/ Gaviria, noting the latters recent bad luck.

    The talk about Nibali being the best all rounder is probably fair, he has a flair about him and his palmares says that he can in the right conditions, win anywhere, except a flat sprinters stage, or an uphill 1-2 minute power sprint (the Mur de huy for example).

    Shame about that Iglinsky win at LBL. That race was Nibali’s really.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,313
    Milton50 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go

    Don't see why not... if he attacks on the Paterberg, who is going to follow?

    Even if he could get a gap at the top of the Paterberg (which I think he would find difficult), there are 13 flat km to the finish. I can't see it.
    Nibali - that dirty car-holding, innocent-bystander’s phone knocking jammie dodger- is a better TTer than Sagan; the latter managed to hold off Cancellara and Vanmarke after Paterberg in 2016...
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    Milton50 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go

    Don't see why not... if he attacks on the Paterberg, who is going to follow?

    Even if he could get a gap at the top of the Paterberg (which I think he would find difficult), there are 13 flat km to the finish. I can't see it.


    I could see him making the selections - he handles the distance, has the skills, can climb well enough even if he isn't that explosive - you'd think it'd have to be a long range solo though and that always requires that bit more fortune in terms of who is chasing. A strong teammate to sit in would help.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Milton50 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    LBL is a better shout.

    Surprises me he hasn’t tbh.

    I agree. I don't see him winning RVV but I'm glad to see he's giving it a go

    Don't see why not... if he attacks on the Paterberg, who is going to follow?

    Even if he could get a gap at the top of the Paterberg (which I think he would find difficult), there are 13 flat km to the finish. I can't see it.
    Nibali - that dirty car-holding, innocent-bystander’s phone knocking jammie dodger- is a better TTer than Sagan; the latter managed to hold off Cancellara and Vanmarke after Paterberg in 2016...

    It's not about TT skills (although I would actually argue that if Sagan could be bothered with TTs then he would beat Nibali). It's about strength after 250km of a cobbled classic.

    I'm not saying Nibali definitely couldn't win it. Just that I don't see it happening.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Will this year be the first time he's ridden it?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,647
    Who's gonna shepherd Nibs around the twists and turns of flanders?

    Not a chance he'll be in the mix with 40km to go.


    Re why I hate Ewen:

    360627ewancaleb.jpg

    Him and Froome are bringing the aesthetics of the sport into disrepute.

    If I was Henri Desgrange I'd have introduced some kinda rule so that you couldn't sprint like that.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Who's gonna shepherd Nibs around the twists and turns of flanders?

    Not a chance he'll be in the mix with 40km to go.

    Aye that's the traditionalist view and you could be right, Nibali himself said something about needing to ride a race a few times before you are in a position to win it and that probably applies to Flanders more than just about any other race. I think he has the tools to ride it and do well but he probably does need back up even more than the experienced riders.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]

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