Milano-Sanremo 2018 *Spoilers*

graeme_s-2

Cosmo's HTRWW is up

http://cyclocosm.com/2018/03/how-the-ra ... remo-2018/

ShutupJens

Just when you thought the man had given up for good, he brings it back. Fantastic news

Vino'sGhost

M.R.M. wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Of course though they are all endurance athletes, some are just endurance athletes with a better sprint but none are actually sprinters in the way Usain Bolt or Chris Hoy is a sprinter. At the end of a hard race Cancellara could sprint - Wiggins could put in world class short distance TTs - Merckx won bunch sprints and mountain stages. In short I don't think we can say with certainty that being a good sprinter means Sagan couldn't be a top TTer if he worked at it - maybe he couldn't be both at the same time like Merckx but that's another matter.

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Showing 100 results Sagan has 2 wins in TT. Slovakian NC (which can be disregarded) and a ToC TT which was super short and hence suits a hybrid sprinter perfectly.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.p ... ter=Filter

Nibali has several good results particularly in GT's. There is no way anyone can state them being on par in a non-short TT let alone Sagan being better.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.p ... ter=Filter

Of course there is no disproving Sagan could work on it and be awesomesauce, but I remain unconvinced. Rather seems like too much Sagan fanboyism (He is amazing, but not at everything).

The problem with GT long TT is that the GC riders often have more to ride for in the individual TT than Green jersey contenders. I don't doubt that Nibali might be better, its just that in the context of a GT each might have different motivations and so its not a realistic comparison of ability

m.r.m.

Completely true, but we must base our assessments off of the data provided.

timoid.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Fantastic, would have been a great finish had that been any rider but for Nibali who has had that as a career goal for so long, being an Italian, being a rider with no sprint in an era when riders like that don't win MSR makes that a hard act for any other race to follow this year.

Without wanting to sound Kirby like, Nibz got a decent tow off the camerabike. Suspect had it not been a popular Italian that advantage would not have been quite so big...

This. I was screaming at the tv. He was towed up the Poggio the motorbike. Moser-tastic way to win.

Wouldn't be cycling without these weird anachronisms though.

I know. I find it strange that most people didn't even remark on it. People see what they want to see I guess.

timoid.

M.R.M. wrote:

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Oh really*




*I know. I know.

Richmond Racer 2

^ruh roh

kingstongraham

Timoid. wrote:

This. I was screaming at the tv. He was towed up the Poggio the motorbike. Moser-tastic way to win.

No, when Nibali is being towed, he does it the more efficient way.

RichN95.

Timoid. wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Oh really*

*I know. I know.

It's my opinion that he's the biggest doper in the history of the sport

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Oh really*

*I know. I know.

It's my opinion that he's the biggest doper in the history of the sport

More than Riis????

timoid.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Oh really*

*I know. I know.

It's my opinion that he's the biggest doper in the history of the sport

More than Riis????

Or Armstrong?

Or Pantani?

Or Virenque?

Or Rominger?

Stiff competition

ShutupJens

Jalabert running away from a journo after being asked about his past will never cease to amuse me

RichN95.

Timoid. wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

Sure, but I still maintain there is a reason certain riders end up fulfilling specific roles in the pro peloton. If your genetics make you a sprinter, no amount of training will make you an elite climber.

Oh really*

*I know. I know.

It's my opinion that he's the biggest doper in the history of the sport

More than Riis????

Or Armstrong?

Or Pantani?

Or Virenque?

Or Rominger?

Stiff competition

Yes. I'll show my working. The early 90s were the early years and not everyone was doping, but it is generally agreed that by 1995 anyone who was going to dope was doping.
And there was absolutely nothing to stop people until the 50% limit came in. Therefore, the biggest doper would be someone from the most unrestricted era.
Now some dopers like Riis, Armstrong and Pantani were only competitive for a select few races a year. For the biggest doper we want someone at it all year round. And for the best indication for that we can look at the world rankings of that era - they tend to be topped by people successful all season long.

Jalabert was world number 1 from 1995-1999 (except 1998 when he was second behind Pantani)

TheBigBean

Jalabert certainly had a remarkable transformation, but that was supposed to have been because he had a crash in a sprint, so started training for other targets. A bit like swapping the 4km track pursuit for GT riding.

ShutupJens

TheBigBean wrote:

A bit like swapping the 4km track pursuit for GT riding.

Now that would be quite unrealistic, as transformations go

milton50

ShutupJens wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

A bit like swapping the 4km track pursuit for GT riding.

Now that would be quite unrealistic, as transformations go

That would never work out.

m.r.m.

Just to put it in the context of what I was writing in terms of genetics and muscle fibres, although I know Timoid. was posting tongue in cheek and it's def. funny , if you dope enough to raise your overall level, a sprinter can drop a climber simply because he his much better at everything. Simplest example would be Greipel dropping me or you regardless of us maybe being more climbers than sprinters, simply by being better at everything (example of being better, not example of Greipel doping).

m.r.m.

RichN95 wrote:

Yes. I'll show my working. The early 90s were the early years and not everyone was doping, but it is generally agreed that by 1995 anyone who was going to dope was doping.
And there was absolutely nothing to stop people until the 50% limit came in. Therefore, the biggest doper would be someone from the most unrestricted era.
Now some dopers like Riis, Armstrong and Pantani were only competitive for a select few races a year. For the biggest doper we want someone at it all year round. And for the best indication for that we can look at the world rankings of that era - they tend to be topped by people successful all season long.

Jalabert was world number 1 from 1995-1999 (except 1998 when he was second behind Pantani)

Biggest doper would usually mean the person getting the most benefit and success from doping. This is an interesting and logical viewpoint I hadn't considered!

inseine

ShutupJens wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

A bit like swapping the 4km track pursuit for GT riding.

Now that would be quite unrealistic, as transformations go

Joking aside, I always thought it was impressive that Theo Bos went from track sprinter to goodish road rider. I would have though that most track sprinters would have a trouble competing at 3rd cat level.