Britain's response to Russia

pblakeney

DeVlaeminck wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Double agent.

Killed by MI5.

Blame Russia.

Anyone else thinking this ?

Wouldn't there be easier ways to do it, unless we wanted a second cold war, I can't see what we gain though.

There is a cold front coming from the east.
Can we blame Putin?

Matthewfalle

bristolpete wrote:

Double agent.

Killed by MI5.

Blame Russia.

Anyone else thinking this ?

No because the ensuing schizer storm is too big.

They would have just done it the normal way - mugging gone wrong, car crash, that sort of thing. So much easier to cover up, wouldn’t have even made the local papers.

Pross

Typical Russian reaction as they are now talking as though they are the ones being wronged here.

tailwindhome

The only thing which will stop a bad guy with a deadly nerve agent is a good guy with a deadly nerve agent

pblakeney

TailWindHome wrote:

The only thing which will stop a bad guy with a deadly nerve agent is a good guy with a deadly nerve agent

Give everyone deadly nerve agents.
That will make it nice and safe.

Pross

Be a prepper and bottle your farts ready for the big attack.

cycleclinic

bristolpete might be a russian spy with a few days to go.

I dont need to bottle my farts i can almost produce them on demand. just give me a bowl of bran flakes and i'll show you chemical weapons.

shortfall

thecycleclinic wrote:

bristolpete might be a russian spy with a few days to go.

I dont need to bottle my farts i can almost produce them on demand. just give me a bowl of bran flakes and i'll show you chemical weapons.

I actually chuckled out loud at that. I always had you down as one of them more serious forumites Malcolm

rick_chasey

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

Haven’t all of our allies been expelling diplomats.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

I guess you missed the joint statement by UK, US, France and Germany.

Matthewfalle

And that, my son, is what you call a two fingered biatch slap from a major power to a minor country.

coopster_the_1st

Matthewfalle wrote:

And that, my son, is what you call a two fingered biatch slap from a major power to a minor country.

It's a bit strong to say Russia is a minor country. Yes it is living on its past superpower status from when it was the USSR and has yet to downsize its aspirations from that era but minor country is a bit far

robert88

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

And that, my son, is what you call a two fingered biatch slap from a major power to a minor country.

It's a bit strong to say Russia is a minor country. Yes it is living on its past superpower status from when it was the USSR and has yet to downsize its aspirations from that era but minor country is a bit far

Humour and tribalism aside, it's one thing to make noises of support on the world stage but quite another when push comes to shove.

Unfortunately the UK government are whistling in the dark on this one. Very unfortunately.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

I guess you missed the joint statement by UK, US, France and Germany.

That’s after the test right?

Kinda the point.

cycleclinic

Russia needs the world as much as we need Russian gas. If Russia stopped selling gas then that would hurt us but it would collapse the Russian economy so quite frankly they are not that powerful. It's just that they don't play by any rules at present that what makes them look powerful. Britain with the size of our economy could easily match Russian military power if we wanted too (we don't though). And if it came to a fight which it won't because it would be civilisation ending then it all academic anyway. Russia is weak so it tries to make itself look strong but messing with other countries affairs saying look what we can do. This should be met by the response, so what. We are taking these actions as a result for your deeds, do it again and there's more to come. We should not be bothered by the response of the Russian to us expelling out diplomats. there does not need to be a further response unless they do something aggressive again.

Matthewfalle

thecycleclinic wrote:

Britain with the size of our economy could easily match Russian military power if we wanted too (we don't though).

utter tosh. complete tripe.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

I guess you missed the joint statement by UK, US, France and Germany.

That’s after the test right?

Kinda the point.

Not really the point, no. Why would our allies rally round us if nothing had happened?

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Testing the U.K. now that it’s desperate for non-EU allies.

I guess you missed the joint statement by UK, US, France and Germany.

That’s after the test right?

Kinda the point.

Not really the point, no. Why would our allies rally round us if nothing had happened?

Many would point to the lack of expulsions and/or sanctions as evidence that our so called allies have all taken a backwards step and ducked at the same time.

They really have done the bare minimum.

surrey_commuter

Matthewfalle wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Britain with the size of our economy could easily match Russian military power if we wanted too (we don't though).

utter tosh. complete tripe.

I will borrow your quoting skills to ask our cycling clinician to post up a comparison of military might and suggest how long it would take us to build our military up to a similar level and at what cost.

slowmart

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

If we seize/freeze assets then you might scare off all the other dodgy people funnelling money into London

Works for me.

Not that easy... at the moment our balance of payments look less worse because of the money coming in. If you stop the money coming in and create an outflow then BoP gets worse and you risk a potential run on the £ further flight or capital and rising interest rates. This money will also be invested in assets so productivity goes down etc

Now who decides who is undesirable? as we will need to make a decision on the ruling families in various Gulf States.

There are some good reasons why we turn a blind eye to these things.

No, there’s no good reason to turn a blind eye to criminals buying assets in this country.

Undesirable is easily defined. Substantiate your wealth or leave yourself open to assets being seized. Pressure Putins allies and hurt them in their collective pockets

surrey_commuter

Slowmart wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

If we seize/freeze assets then you might scare off all the other dodgy people funnelling money into London

Works for me.

Not that easy... at the moment our balance of payments look less worse because of the money coming in. If you stop the money coming in and create an outflow then BoP gets worse and you risk a potential run on the £ further flight or capital and rising interest rates. This money will also be invested in assets so productivity goes down etc

Now who decides who is undesirable? as we will need to make a decision on the ruling families in various Gulf States.

There are some good reasons why we turn a blind eye to these things.

No, there’s no good reason to turn a blind eye to criminals buying assets in this country.

Undesirable is easily defined. Substantiate your wealth or leave yourself open to assets being seized. Pressure Putins allies and hurt them in their collective pockets

Ok replace good with many, or strong.

You are missing the point

The UK has made a decision to be a safe haven for dodgy money. This is not a secret and there are many/good/strong reasons for doing so. Taking action against dodgy Russians will cost us our dodgy money safe haven status. This is not something we have done before and would be amazed if we did so now.

surrey_commuter

So this report suggests that there is £133bn of hot Russian money in the UK
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... 2015-2.pdf

Now think of all those countries linked to the UK with very lax financial reporting

We have actively sought (to the displeasure of others) to be the bolt hole for people looking for a home for unexplained assets.

If we fvcked a few Russians, over two half dead Russians, then we risk a massive outflow of these funds (call it investment if you want) which would have a catastrophic effect on our balance of ayments, exchange rate, base rate, inflation etc.

Putin has killed over a dozen people in the Uk and we have done nothing. We will do nothing this time, he knows it, we know it, everybody knows it.

surrey_commuter

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Britain with the size of our economy could easily match Russian military power if we wanted too (we don't though).

utter tosh. complete tripe.

I will borrow your quoting skills to ask our cycling clinician to post up a comparison of military might and suggest how long it would take us to build our military up to a similar level and at what cost.

Well I reckon we need a million more service personnel
3,000 more planes
15,000 more tanks (we currently have 400

cycleclinic

We have an economy 65% bigger than Russia's so why couldn't we match Russia military if we wanted to. They simply devote more of there GDP to defence than we do. We would have to spend may twice what we do though at present (£45 billion per anumn) partly because we have a habit of buying the most expensive kit we can and finding ways of making it even more expensive. it would take years to build up the military with more spending. Russia's defense budget is £50 billion but they seem to buy cheaper kit but way more of it. Saudia arabia spends more than Russia on defence. So it not just the money you spend but how it is spent. Many of russia's planes for example are transport aircraft the number of fighters/attack and bombers is smaller. For example about 3/4's of the there fighter/attack aircraft date from 1970's/80's. The other are more modern but there are not 3000 of them.

While we may not be able to put as many soldiers into the field, numbers matter little. NATO ie the USA has it's own missiles and planes and can deny the Russians the ability to deploy freely like they can do with us. As a conflict would go nuclear very quickly it matters little. One Trident submarine has 16 missiles on board although as of 2010 only 8 are loaded. Each missile has 8, 100kt warheads (these I think can be of variable yield) and these are independently targetable. There may be only 40 warheads on each sub but that enough. There is at least one sub on patrol (but three are at sea currently) and one in for maintenance at any one time. So in the event of conflict, there can be two subs maybe three in the water. There are about 120 operational nuclear warheads. Who knows as a result of the recent tensions if some of the non-operational weapons will be brought back into service for deployment. At current deployment of 40 warheads per sub is 120 in total if three subs were deployed. That enough to eliminate Russia's ability to wage war and of course end the world. Russia has over 6000 warheads so the means to deliver alot of them. So it is pointless for Britain to try to match the Russian military. they cant use it against us any more than we can ours against them. Also the U.K and USA military are joined at the hip. An attack on the U.K would also involve attacking the US and other nato forces and combined NATO dwarfs the Russian Military not that actually matters due to the above.

Britain floats on dodgy money so we cant stop it's flow. Putin is banking on us not willing to take some pain to hurt russia. Putin is willing and russia is willing to take pain to hurt us. That is why the power balance is the way it is.

Matthewfalle

thecycleclinic wrote:

We have an economy 65% bigger than Russia's so why couldn't we match Russia military if we wanted to. They simply devote more of there GDP to defence than we do. We would have to spend may twice what we do though at present (£45 billion per anumn) partly because we have a habit of buying the most expensive kit we can and finding ways of making it even more expensive. it would take years to build up the military with more spending. Russia's defense budget is £50 billion but they seem to buy cheaper kit but way more of it. Saudia arabia spends more than Russia on defence. So it not just the money you spend but how it is spent. Many of russia's planes for example are transport aircraft the number of fighters/attack and bombers is smaller. For example about 3/4's of the there fighter/attack aircraft date from 1970's/80's. The other are more modern but there are not 3000 of them.

While we may not be able to put as many soldiers into the field, numbers matter little. NATO ie the USA has it's own missiles and planes and can deny the Russians the ability to deploy freely like they can do with us. As a conflict would go nuclear very quickly it matters little. One Trident submarine has 16 missiles on board although as of 2010 only 8 are loaded. Each missile has 8, 100kt warheads (these I think can be of variable yield) and these are independently targetable. There may be only 40 warheads on each sub but that enough. There is at least one sub on patrol (but three are at sea currently) and one in for maintenance at any one time. So in the event of conflict, there can be two subs maybe three in the water. There are about 120 operational nuclear warheads. Who knows as a result of the recent tensions if some of the non-operational weapons will be brought back into service for deployment. At current deployment of 40 warheads per sub is 120 in total if three subs were deployed. That enough to eliminate Russia's ability to wage war and of course end the world. Russia has over 6000 warheads so the means to deliver alot of them. So it is pointless for Britain to try to match the Russian military. they cant use it against us any more than we can ours against them. Also the U.K and USA military are joined at the hip. An attack on the U.K would also involve attacking the US and other nato forces and combined NATO dwarfs the Russian Military not that actually matters due to the above.

Britain floats on dodgy money so we cant stop it's flow. Putin is banking on us not willing to take some pain to hurt russia. Putin is willing and russia is willing to take pain to hurt us. That is why the power balance is the way it is.

You've never been in the military have you?

Are you Nigel Farage or do you just read too much ukip material?

Do you honestly believe that anything the British army gets is actually any good?

do you honestly think that anyone apart from Germany, the US, Britain and France are actually any use? Bear in mind that the whole of NATO depends on the US.

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

You've never been in the military have you?

Are you Nigel Farage or do you just read too much ukip material?

Brexiter, no?

Whines a lot about immigrants IIRC.

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

You've never been in the military have you?

Are you Nigel Farage or do you just read too much ukip material?

Brexiter, no?

Whines a lot about immigrants IIRC.

Ah - explains a lot. Thank you.

Hope that people don't believe what he says. Hope that he doesn't really believe what he says, tbh.

orraloon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

So this report suggests that there is £133bn of hot Russian money in the UK
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... 2015-2.pdf

Seize the £133bn, use half to pay off the EU, use the other half to go someway to meeting the bus pledge on the NHS, Botster is put in a quandary, everyone's a winner.

this may or maybot be entirely serious

surrey_commuter

orraloon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

So this report suggests that there is £133bn of hot Russian money in the UK
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... 2015-2.pdf

Seize the £133bn, use half to pay off the EU, use the other half to go someway to meeting the bus pledge on the NHS, Botster is put in a quandary, everyone's a winner.

this may or maybot be entirely serious

And what about the massive hole when everybody else pulls out there dodgy money?