Britain's response to Russia

dinyull

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -secretary

It's alright people, the man with a tarantula has sorted it all out.

bianchimoon

Is Corbyn trying to commit political suicide by not addressing the Russian involvement?
Or does he think that, by not criticising Russia he'll be in a better position than May to calm waters, should the need arise?

cycleclinic

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

BelgianBeerGeek

Pross wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Why is Russia so powerful, when it has a GDP about half the size of the UK? If it is spending so much more than us on defence, when does that become unsustainable?

Thing is, they're like the nutter down the pub. You know you could deck him in a fair fight but you're also fully aware he's a psycho and would go to lengths you won't so you just humour him and buy him a pint if you make him spill a drop of his.

Are you assuming that Russia is being irrational in it's behaviour?

surrey_commuter

thecycleclinic wrote:

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

you are forgetting the Crimean War

also Russia probably lumps us in with the West so you would have to include the couple of attempts that Germany made

Pross

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Pross wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Why is Russia so powerful, when it has a GDP about half the size of the UK? If it is spending so much more than us on defence, when does that become unsustainable?

Thing is, they're like the nutter down the pub. You know you could deck him in a fair fight but you're also fully aware he's a psycho and would go to lengths you won't so you just humour him and buy him a pint if you make him spill a drop of his.

Are you assuming that Russia is being irrational in it's behaviour?

Not really, being the nutter who'll do things others are scared to isn't necessarily irrational.

bianchimoon

If I was a football fan, call me an Gallus gallus domesticus, but I wouldn't be going anywhere near Russia this summer

Pross

bianchimoon wrote:

If I was a football fan, call me an Gallus gallus domesticus, but I wouldn't be going anywhere near Russia this summer

Part of me is looking forward to seeing what happens to Fat Les and his mates when they kick off after a few drinks, maybe they learnt their lesson at the Euros in France as the battering they took there off a few travelling Russians should make them think what will happen on their home turf.

Matthewfalle

thecycleclinic wrote:

Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

Delusion in one post.

Surely even the cycle clinic cannot believe what he has posted?

Matthewfalle

Surrey Commuter wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

you are forgetting the Crimean War

also Russia probably lumps us in with the West so you would have to include the couple of attempts that Germany made

Sorry - are you saying that Britain beat Germany in ww2?

bianchimoon

Pross wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

If I was a football fan, call me an Gallus gallus domesticus, but I wouldn't be going anywhere near Russia this summer

Part of me is looking forward to seeing what happens to Fat Les and his mates when they kick off after a few drinks, maybe they learnt their lesson at the Euros in France as the battering they took there off a few travelling Russians should make them think what will happen on their home turf.

I honestly can't believe any football supporter would be that stupid as to A) go to Russia to kick off....Shirley?

Matthewfalle

bianchimoon wrote:

Pross wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

If I was a football fan, call me an Gallus gallus domesticus, but I wouldn't be going anywhere near Russia this summer

Part of me is looking forward to seeing what happens to Fat Les and his mates when they kick off after a few drinks, maybe they learnt their lesson at the Euros in France as the battering they took there off a few travelling Russians should make them think what will happen on their home turf.

I honestly can't believe any football supporter would be that stupid as to A) go to Russia to kick off....Shirley?

Oh yes - the level of stupidity of the average engggeeeeeerrrland wannabe hard man has to be seen to believed.

orraloon

Thought they learned the hard way in France 2016? Getting pivo-ed up and chucking plastic chairs about a square ain't gonna cut it in Russia 2018.

Matthewfalle

orraloon wrote:

Thought they learned the hard way in France 2016? Getting pivo-ed up and chucking plastic chairs about a square ain't gonna cut it in Russia 2018.

Nah - they're too stupid for that.

pblakeney

Matthewfalle wrote:

orraloon wrote:

Thought they learned the hard way in France 2016? Getting pivo-ed up and chucking plastic chairs about a square ain't gonna cut it in Russia 2018.

Nah - they're too stupid for that.

They will have forgotten about it already.
Even if they did read it in the Sun this morning.

orraloon

Read??

Matthewfalle

PBlakeney wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

orraloon wrote:

Thought they learned the hard way in France 2016? Getting pivo-ed up and chucking plastic chairs about a square ain't gonna cut it in Russia 2018.

Nah - they're too stupid for that.

They will have forgotten about it already.
Even if they did read it in the Sun this morning.

Forgotten about what?

surrey_commuter

Matthewfalle wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

i

you are forgetting the Crimean War

also Russia probably lumps us in with the West so you would have to include the couple of attempts that Germany made

Sorry - are you saying that Britain beat Germany in ww2?

Not me guv

I am pointing out that Russia has good reason to suspect that us and the West may try to invade them, again

TheBigBean

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

i

you are forgetting the Crimean War

also Russia probably lumps us in with the West so you would have to include the couple of attempts that Germany made

Sorry - are you saying that Britain beat Germany in ww2?

Not me guv

I am pointing out that Russia has good reason to suspect that us and the West may try to invade them, again

Napoleon had a go too. If only the game of risk had been invested before, they would have known that no one can hold russia

Matthewfalle

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

russia does not spend as much on health care, social security or other things. Saudi spends nearly 10% of GDP on defence and has a budget a big as ours but they are spending it reducing yeman to rubble with the most expensive bombs they can buy. Britain could rule the world almost and take on russia but instead and wisely we spend our money elsewhere as we have already decked the world and realised it was not such a good idea. Infact we have invaded russia once in 1918/9 on the side of the white russians but that movement collapsed but we fought one and were able to pull out our forces in good order.

i

you are forgetting the Crimean War

also Russia probably lumps us in with the West so you would have to include the couple of attempts that Germany made

Sorry - are you saying that Britain beat Germany in ww2?

Not me guv

I am pointing out that Russia has good reason to suspect that us and the West may try to invade them, again

I suspect that they have absolutely no suspicion of that at all. None whatsoever. Zip. Nil has. Rien.

It's Russia we're talking about, not Rhyll. No one in their right mind is going to pick a ruck with Russia, let alone Britain.

pblakeney

orraloon wrote:

Read??

As long as there was an appropriate pictorial on the front page, back page, or page 3.

Alex99

bianchimoon wrote:

I think we should ban those Russian dolls, they’re so full of themselves.

cycleclinic

russia cant pick a fight with us (nato) either. Russia power is quite hollow by that I mean they project power because they are not challanged seriously. Ukraine pushed back and Russia figured an invasion was simply not worth it. If Russia felt it could do what it actually wanted it would overthrown the ukrainian government. Our power is fairly hollow so is theres because neither side can deal with the consequences of a war. In fact power is not based on the size of a countries economy, will has more to do with it and skill. Russia has little ecomonic power but it is alot of stragetic power that is uses well. It is has the will and therefore it has power. Western countries do lack the will to play Russia's games and therefore we are on the back foot (I dont advcate playing russia games they could back fire). I am not delusional far from it. Britain along with its allies do manage the world through the instituations we have created so we do have alot of power but its used in conjuction with other nations as that is far more effective. Russia may have overplayed it hand on this occassion. That does not mean they will go and shut up as our rather crass minster put it but they might be more careful in future.

Russians in government trot out this line that the west is trying to overthrow them because a) they have convinced themselves it is true and b) it keeps them in power. Take The new hypersonic nuke. Russia already has more missiles than it needs to overwhelm out puny missile defences of any nato nation. so having one that can go via the south pole to evade radar is pointless. the american can just build a radar station on the south pole. Also the russians cannot knock out all of natos nukes. Between britain, france and the USA enough would be left to obliteriate russia. In fact ours are under the sea and russians cant find them so there will always be one nato country left to launch assuming they go in the right direction (the last test fire headed toward florida). So Russia's new weapons sound good and terryifing but are utterly pointless and do not change the strategic situation, that both sides cannot afford to start a war as it would be the end.


so it not a case of wanting to pick a fight with russia. no-one wants too but russia thinks we do or it convienent for them to make everyone think thats what they think and that is the problem. However russia is quite happy to pick fights with Ukraine, Georgia....

So who knows if russia is really behind it. It is convienent for western countries to say Russia is and it suits Russia just fine to be blamed. Maybe that's whats really going on or maybe Putin really did order it. It actually does not matter as this is part of the power games and China will probably rise above us all soon enough anyway and Russia will start worrying about a chinese invasion.

pinno

What I can't figure out (as well as the missing posts) is how they got such a volatile substance into the UK and then managed to take it all the way to Salisbury and 'administer' it. Unless there's a van load of sick Russians about to be driven off Southend Pier by their own comrades soon.

cycleclinic

That is the question isn't it. How did north korea get a malaysian girl to posion one of there own.

I suspect this assination was botched. If the dose was higher they might have died quicker and not been found on a park bench foaming at the mouth (a bit of a giveaway). Perhaps it has been used before more than once and we never even knew.

Getting a nasty substance into the UK is probably fairly easy if you actually wanted to. it not like alot is needed.

Matthewfalle

Pinno wrote:

What I can't figure out (as well as the missing posts) is how they got such a volatile substance into the UK and then managed to take it all the way to Salisbury and 'administer' it. Unless there's a van load of sick Russians about to be driven off Southend Pier by their own comrades soon.

Diplomatic bag

In a suitcase

By post

Any number of ways really

bompington

In a jiffy bag, of course!

Matthewfalle

Did they have a TUE for it?

orraloon

Get Dan Roan on the case.

rjsterry

Pinno wrote:

...as well as the missing posts...

Switching databases yesterday apparently. Only the switch over didn't go very smoothly.