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Britain's response to Russia

bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
edited February 2019 in The cake stop
Given that the nerve agent attack is now pretty conclusive and not withstanding the Litvenyenko radiological attack, are we that indebted to Russia that the response will be relatively feeble ie. a few agents sent home and some cash assets seized ?
Personally I would prefer that we were part of a strong Europe at this time especially given the total lack of western world leadership, sad times :(
All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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Posts

  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,424
    They’re our best bet for a trade agreement so need to keep them sweet!
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Pross wrote:
    They’re our best bet for a trade agreement so need to keep them sweet!
    And our gas supplies, plus loads a ‘ooligans have their summer hols booked, we’re stuffed!
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.
    It’s Chelsea, no one gives a fork :roll: please don’t respond to this I couldn’t bear it
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.
    It’s Chelsea, no one gives a fork :roll: please don’t respond to this I couldn’t bear it

    No, seriously, it’s a great idea. Shall we also ask HMG to finance it after we’ve seized it?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,999
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.
    It'll keep you in a job I suppose?
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.
    It'll keep you in a job I suppose?

    Hmmm, very very true but it might also mean I would have to do some work which I’m not too keen on. And the paperwork can be a nightmare.

    Anyhow, how about his suggestion of HMG seizing Chelsea? That’s a grand idea, Wallace.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,015
    Who cares if Chelsea is funded or not. It's Chelsea! Not an important club like Liverpool or Everton and those other clubs in that other city along the motorway from Liverpool.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,189
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.
    It’s Chelsea, no one gives a fork :roll: please don’t respond to this I couldn’t bear it

    It's a superb idea.

    Perhaps some retaliatory kidnapping of various Russian... say diplomats and a battery and some jump leads thrown in. Imagine being the head of M16 now - glory days are back.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,424
    I'm not sure why we're even spending money investigating, the whole world knows who was behind it (apart from Trump who will no doubt say it's down to Muslim terrorists and wouldn't have happened if we were all armed). Even the Russian denials come across as 'of course it was us but you're not going to do anything about it', the tone of their denials is like the Iraqi guy saying the Yanks hadn't entered Baghdad while tanks were driving around behind him. The one Russian politician I heard said something like 'it's a warning to any other traitors, Britain is dangerous for your health so don't go there'.
  • orraloonorraloon Posts: 7,539
    x6e9ua.jpg
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 12,671
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.
    It’s Chelsea, no one gives a fork :roll: please don’t respond to this I couldn’t bear it

    No, seriously, it’s a great idea. Shall we also ask HMG to finance it after we’ve seized it?

    Seriously muddled thinking. They should be made to fund more UK loss making companies and to pump in enough money to keep the UK housing market (economy) for another decade.

    Because if not Prince William won’t go and watch a football match.
  • capt_slogcapt_slog Posts: 3,443
    Who cares if Chelsea is funded or not. It's Chelsea! Not an important club like Liverpool or Everton and those other clubs in that other city along the motorway from Liverpool.

    "Important football club", now there's a contradiction of terms. :lol:


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    I think we should ban those Russian dolls, they’re so full of themselves.
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,659 Lives Here
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.

    Freezing assets of well off-Russians who have connections with Putin is precisely what has shown to be effective in the past.

    It's not the same as communist requisitioning.

    Edit: (though in fairness, Abramovic bought Chelsea mainly because he made enemies in Russia and so being high profile is a way to ward off threats to his life).
  • ProssPross Posts: 25,424
    I don’t think the Russians are wetting themselves in fear at the thought of repercussions otherwise they wouldn’t have sanctioned this attack that is so obviously down to them. Let’s face in, they’ve annexed part of another country and shot down a civilian airliner with very little effective response from the rest of the world so bumping off a convicted traitor is small beer.

    Oddly, novachok features in the Strike Back series I’m currently watching - I assumed it was a fictional agent!
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 12,671
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.

    Freezing assets of well off-Russians who have connections with Putin is precisely what has shown to be effective in the past.

    It's not the same as communist requisitioning.

    Edit: (though in fairness, Abramovic bought Chelsea mainly because he made enemies in Russia and so being high profile is a way to ward off threats to his life).

    is there not a difference between freezing assets and seizing them?
  • capt_slogcapt_slog Posts: 3,443

    is there not a difference between freezing assets and seizing them?

    Not sure, but to me 'freezing assets' suggests more of a temporary measure, as if they could get them back.


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,659 Lives Here
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.

    Freezing assets of well off-Russians who have connections with Putin is precisely what has shown to be effective in the past.

    It's not the same as communist requisitioning.

    Edit: (though in fairness, Abramovic bought Chelsea mainly because he made enemies in Russia and so being high profile is a way to ward off threats to his life).

    is there not a difference between freezing assets and seizing them?

    Sure but I presume there was just a mix up in language. We're not all lawyers.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    edited March 2018
    You can't go around freezing private citizen's assets for an alleged state committed act. Especially when the Russian citizen you are discussing owns half of London. Ridiculous suggestion. Nearly as ridiculous as suggesting that you want to seize assets.

    And anyhow, do you honestly think Putin et al are the least bit worried about what Britain will - do - its a middle ranking country with no stability, an underfunded military, about to leave its biggest trading market with no plan to head into and can't even afford to support to support its internal requirements let alone pick a fight with anyone. Its biggest ally - the US - refuses to point blame at anyone (except for Tillerson, and he isn't President last time I looked). Its about as effective as the Gambia but without the sunshine.

    They are talking about the UN making a statement. Whoopy do. Words.

    Nothing will happen - a couple of diplomats will be asked to leave, they will come back in 6 months.

    Plus ca change.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Yeah. A big war will sort it.

    Send in the jets!

    THats a great idea.

    What, you think a big war is a great idea? I know you tend to read only every other word in posts, but no one is advocating a big war. I was thinking more of seizing control of Chelsea FC off Vlad's mate, that'll show em.

    So - you’re advocating State sponsored seizure of a private asset?

    Another top suggestion. Well done.

    Freezing assets of well off-Russians who have connections with Putin is precisely what has shown to be effective in the past.

    It's not the same as communist requisitioning.

    Edit: (though in fairness, Abramovic bought Chelsea mainly because he made enemies in Russia and so being high profile is a way to ward off threats to his life).

    is there not a difference between freezing assets and seizing them?

    Sure but I presume there was just a mix up in language. We're not all lawyers.

    Its nothing to do with being a lawyer or not - its basic English. If you don't know what it means don't type it.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 52,659 Lives Here
    alright-there-mate-29819108.png
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,941
    You can't go around freezing private citizen's assets for an alleged state committed act. Especially when the Russian citizen you are discussing owns half of London. Ridiculous suggestion.

    And anyhow, do you honestly think Putin et al are the least bit worried about what Britain will - do - its a middle ranking country with no stability, an underfunded military, about to leave its biggest trading market with no plan to head into and can't even afford to support to support its internal requirements let alone pick a fight with anyone. Its biggest ally - the US - refuses to point blame at anyone (except for Tillerson, and he isn't President last time I looked). Its about as effective as the Gambia but without the sunshine.

    They are talking about the UN making a statement. Whoopy do. Words.

    Nothing will happen - a couple of diplomats will be asked to leave, they will come back in 6 months.

    Plus ca change.

    With mamba away sulking are you and Blakey competing to see who can be the most pessimistic?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 12,671
    You can't go around freezing private citizen's assets for an alleged state committed act. Especially when the Russian citizen you are discussing owns half of London. Ridiculous suggestion. Nearly as ridiculous as suggesting that you want to seize assets.

    And anyhow, do you honestly think Putin et al are the least bit worried about what Britain will - do - its a middle ranking country with no stability, an underfunded military, about to leave its biggest trading market with no plan to head into and can't even afford to support to support its internal requirements let alone pick a fight with anyone. Its biggest ally - the US - refuses to point blame at anyone (except for Tillerson, and he isn't President last time I looked). Its about as effective as the Gambia but without the sunshine.

    They are talking about the UN making a statement. Whoopy do. Words.

    Nothing will happen - a couple of diplomats will be asked to leave, they will come back in 6 months.

    Plus ca change.

    you need to cheer up a bit and stop being so pessimistic or you will never get anything done. You are forgetting that we are the 5th largest economy in the world and the the quality of the British fighting man is second to none. I think you will find that the Russian Bear is going to get a scare when the post-Brexit British Lion regains it's roar
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 13,837
    You can't go around freezing private citizen's assets for an alleged state committed act. Especially when the Russian citizen you are discussing owns half of London. Ridiculous suggestion. Nearly as ridiculous as suggesting that you want to seize assets.

    https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/p ... 23331.aspx
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,015
    Of course you can seize / freeze assets of you're a state and the assets are in your jurisdiction and there's legislation giving your officials the right to do so. But then I'm not a legal eagle. I just know the first seizure legislation I recall was the one where the state could seize the assets of criminals such as drug dealers. I'm sure they'll legislate if need be to give themselves cover domestically.

    Interesting piece on R4 on my drive into work. Apparently someone who knows about these things said that UK has expertise in tracking and dealing with terrorism. Apparently it's an asset of our country that is shared with our allies but Interestingly we share with Russia too. That sharing had value to them. The person speaking said that withdrawing this will have more effect than expelling a few diplomats.

    I have no idea how true that is or who was being interviewed (I was half asleep driving into work). I believe other states such as USA and European states value it and gchq is certainly an asset. It's just whether Russia does get UK help against terrorism. I guess they have Islamic terrorism in their sphere of control, chechnia for example was / is an issue.

    Anyhow it's all irrelevant. Things will get forgotten like the polonium guy, until something like this happens again. The one difference between then and now is we are not in a condition of improving Russian relationship. Back then UK was, along with the west, improving relations with Russia. They were seemingly moving in a positive direction. So a few token expulsions on each side and back to improving relations.

    Now we're in a worse state wrt Russian relations with the west. Different political climate so nothing to lose if they go into this with more severe response.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 12,671
    Of course you can seize / freeze assets of you're a state and the assets are in your jurisdiction and there's legislation giving your officials the right to do so. But then I'm not a legal eagle. I just know the first seizure legislation I recall was the one where the state could seize the assets of criminals such as drug dealers. I'm sure they'll legislate if need be to give themselves cover domestically.

    Interesting piece on R4 on my drive into work. Apparently someone who knows about these things said that UK has expertise in tracking and dealing with terrorism. Apparently it's an asset of our country that is shared with our allies but Interestingly we share with Russia too. That sharing had value to them. The person speaking said that withdrawing this will have more effect than expelling a few diplomats.

    I have no idea how true that is or who was being interviewed (I was half asleep driving into work). I believe other states such as USA and European states value it and gchq is certainly an asset. It's just whether Russia does get UK help against terrorism. I guess they have Islamic terrorism in their sphere of control, chechnia for example was / is an issue.

    Anyhow it's all irrelevant. Things will get forgotten like the polonium guy, until something like this happens again. The one difference between then and now is we are not in a condition of improving Russian relationship. Back then UK was, along with the west, improving relations with Russia. They were seemingly moving in a positive direction. So a few token expulsions on each side and back to improving relations.

    Now we're in a worse state wrt Russian relations with the west. Different political climate so nothing to lose if they go into this with more severe response.

    It might be worth checking but I think the Chechnyans are freedom fighters. Either way they are mad fockers and it is best to leave them alone
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Lavrov claimed Britain has an obligation to share forensic data under the Convention for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. Russia also summoned the British ambassador, Laurie Bristow, following the allegations, Interfax reported.

    “Before delivering ultimatums to report to the British government within 24 hours,” Lavrov said at a news conference in Moscow, “it is better to comply with your own obligations under international law — in this case the Convention on the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.”
    The Russians do Irony well
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
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