Britain's response to Russia

cycleclinic

the U>K police do assist foreign police services in the death of britains but in these cases The British state is not accused of ordering the murder.

Also the host country as to request the assistance we have not and rightly we are not going to ask.

Why people try to see Russia side is beyond me. I dont think The Dutch were able to send police in to investigate who shot down there flight over ukraine because guess who would not let them. Air crash investigators went but this was a war crime.

Think clearly. The russian state is the wrong here. The salibury attack is just one in a long string of hostile acts. Like the Me too movement just one cases of abuse becomes the tipping point where nations say no more.

Even New zealand had a look for russian spies but because they are so far away and irrelevant to Russia Ms Arden said there does not appear to be a Russian Spy here to expel. So maybe Aukland is the new destination for Russian Exiles.

Here a list of countries expelling "diplomats". Even Russian friendly Hungry led by the not so democratic Mr Orban is saying enough and is expelling one. They have over reached on this one.

They dont seem so powerful now. Russia is a hollow power, it can use its stick only as long as other nations dont push back.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pointless discussion. Why would you invite represnetatives of the organisation suspected of ordering and carrying out the murder?

Are we gonna start inviting rival gang members to investigate gangland murders now?

This is classic Russian deflection. They did the same when the blew up a full plane load of innocent people. Don't be a mug.

Didn't the discussion start by someone pointing out the Russians haven't asked to be involved in the investigation and that was a sign they were involved. No-one was suggesting hey should be were they?

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pointless discussion. Why would you invite represnetatives of the organisation suspected of ordering and carrying out the murder?

Are we gonna start inviting rival gang members to investigate gangland murders now?

This is classic Russian deflection. They did the same when the blew up a full plane load of innocent people. Don't be a mug.

Didn't the discussion start by someone pointing out the Russians haven't asked to be involved in the investigation and that was a sign they were involved. No-one was suggesting hey should be were they?

Yes the Russians are.

Pross

I thought they just wanted the sample to analyse so they could state it wasn't theirs?

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

I thought they just wanted the sample to analyse so they could state it wasn't theirs?

Exactly.

*well known serial killer given bullet to assess if it was indeed his bullet that killed the victim*

orraloon

OPCW analysis of samples may take several weeks, coz like it's complicated innit.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... a-stack-up

john80

laurentian wrote:

Something is puzzling me about this episode.

If two British people were killed on Russian soil, regardless of method or who was accused, wouldn't Britian want to send representatives of our police over to investigate? Has Russia asked to do this? If not, why not?

I am pretty sure if a British people had been trading unauthorised intelligence with the Russians, got caught then were traded as a prisoner swap with Russia and took up Russian passports and citizenship then Britain might not give two hoots how they died. Pretty sure this is Russia's view in this case. Ex spies who have betrayed their country are not effectively Russian citizens as far as Russia is concerned.

pblakeney

Rick Chasey wrote:

Pross wrote:

I thought they just wanted the sample to analyse so they could state it wasn't theirs?

Exactly.

*well known serial killer given bullet to assess if it was indeed his bullet that killed the victim*

I would have thought that the defence (or their experts) would be given access to the evidence though.

tangled_metal

I believe the Russkies are challenging our side to prove it wasn't our own spy's doing. That it was just a us/uk scheme to attack Russia and expel diplomats. They had the list of diplomats already before the attempt at killing the ex spook.

Well the truth is all governments monitor diplomats on their territory. They monitor contracts, movements, etc to determine patterns likely of ppl carrying out espionage activities. They then add those they find to a list. Apparently they always did this and any reason they get to expel diplomats as spies they go to this list any pick out the number of spies they decide to kick out. Apparently the most effective ones go first.

This is known and carried out by every nation with intelligence capabilities. Which begs the question, why didn't new Zealand find any Russian spies? Are they rubbish at detecting them or just so insignificant the Russian don't bother spying on them?

bianchimoon

Russia seems to be playing the information game quiet well, amazing how so many people are open to conspiracy theories. Latest is that the Skripals relatives say it could have been food poisoning, even presenter on radio 5 said he was starting to doubt some of Britain’s stories. BOJo should have been sacked immediately, we can’t afford senior politicians making false statements at a time like this. Although I do like the conspiracy theory that the Russians are putting out that all this is aimed at keeping the U.K. in the EU. Perhaps some good will come of this.

plowmar

Apparently Embassies have pre set numbers of diplomats so that throwing 60 out just means that another 60 will be flown in. There would be more and deeper problems if the allowed number of diplomats was reduced.
Porton down scientists have determined the poison but cannot say where or who made it so everything relies on unknown intelligence which we will not divulge.
If the poison was put on the doorhandle of the Skribal's property how could they walk to the park when the policeman that went to help them fell ill almost immediately?

tangled_metal

Perhaps they avoided getting dosed by the handle but got dosed by an operative near the park. Just because the highest levels were on the door handle, does it really confirm that was how they got the toxin into their system?

coopster_the_1st

bianchimoon wrote:

Russia seems to be playing the information game quiet well, amazing how so many people are open to conspiracy theories. Latest is that the Skripals relatives say it could have been food poisoning, even presenter on radio 5 said he was starting to doubt some of Britain’s stories. BOJo should have been sacked immediately, we can’t afford senior politicians making false statements at a time like this. Although I do like the conspiracy theory that the Russians are putting out that all this is aimed at keeping the U.K. in the EU. Perhaps some good will come of this.

I was going to say you have a strange thought process but it is obvious you are putting no thought into this.

So far, Russia has come up with 29 different scenarios for the poisoning, one being that it came from the Porter Down MOD facility and out of 65m people in the UK it just happened to poison the Skripals. Obviously none of these 29 scenarios is in anyway a Russian govt assassination attempt.

That you are willing to believe Russian lies over the UK's foreign secretary, the main reason for this is your bitterness that he campaigned and voted the opposite to you in the EU referendum shows how wrong your morale compass is.

Next you'll be posting support for Bashar al-Assad and his use of chemical weapons in Syria because it is only Russia that is keeping this tyrant in power!

bianchimoon

Coopster the 1st wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Russia seems to be playing the information game quiet well, amazing how so many people are open to conspiracy theories. Latest is that the Skripals relatives say it could have been food poisoning, even presenter on radio 5 said he was starting to doubt some of Britain’s stories. BOJo should have been sacked immediately, we can’t afford senior politicians making false statements at a time like this. Although I do like the conspiracy theory that the Russians are putting out that all this is aimed at keeping the U.K. in the EU. Perhaps some good will come of this.

I was going to say you have a strange thought process but it is obvious you are putting no thought into this.

So far, Russia has come up with 29 different scenarios for the poisoning, one being that it came from the Porter Down MOD facility and out of 65m people in the UK it just happened to poison the Skripals. Obviously none of these 29 scenarios is in anyway a Russian govt assassination attempt.

That you are willing to believe Russian lies over the UK's foreign secretary, the main reason for this is your bitterness that he campaigned and voted the opposite to you in the EU referendum shows how wrong your morale compass is.

Next you'll be posting support for Bashar al-Assad and his use of chemical weapons in Syria because it is only Russia that is keeping this tyrant in power!

Either A. You’re a total fool or B. You’re a total fool.
If you can’t read a post properly don’t make a total fool of yourself and make up something that wasn’t said.

orraloon

Bzzzt Botster.

It is Porton Down, not 'Porter'.
It is moral compass, not 'morale compass'.

Do try to use the English language correctly.

robert88

Well, I doubt if any of it has done the UK's reputation any further damage internationally. We shouldn't read too much into the fact that 20 countries have supported us by expelling Russian diplomats nor the action taken by the USA.

Interesting to read that one of the oligarchs being targeted by 'Washington' donated funds to the Trump campaign via the NRA! It's a tangled web with which Mueller is faced. Or maybe it is the small tip of a huge iceberg - hence his slow and cautious progress. We shall see.

Am hoping to pick up Comey's new book soon, not full price of course.

bianchimoon

Russia now saying that Britain must have been involved in chemical strike in Syria
reports say on US media. This is beyond childish wtf! :roll:

lostboysaint

bianchimoon wrote:

Russia now saying that Britain must have been involved in chemical strike in Syria
reports say on US media. This is beyond childish wtf! :roll:

They're just taking a leaf out of the US President's book of reporting.

bianchimoon

lostboysaint wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Russia now saying that Britain must have been involved in chemical strike in Syria
reports say on US media. This is beyond childish wtf! :roll:

They're just taking a leaf out of the US President's book of reporting.

Seems like it, talk enough bollox and someone will believe you, then you'll start believing yourself, trouble is lot at stake in Syria. Isolate Russia economically, the oligarchs will soon be ripping Putin apart!

bianchimoon

Russia claims Syria chemical attack STAGED BY UK

The Russian military has claimed an alleged chemical attack in Syria was staged and directed by Britain.

Volunteer first responders and activists said a chemical attack by the Syrian government killed more than 40 people in the town of Douma, which drew international outrage and prompted Washington and its allies to consider a military response.

Moscow warned against any strikes and threatened to retaliate.

Russian Defence Ministry spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov, released statements by medics from Douma's hospital who said a group of people toting video cameras entered the hospital, shouting that its patients had been struck with chemical weapons and causing panic.

The medics said none of the patients were hurt by chemicals. Maj Gen Konashenkov said Britain was "directly involved in the provocation".

rick_chasey

Why bother posting that?


Might as well post a bunch of flat earther nonesense.

bianchimoon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why bother posting that?


Might as well post a bunch of flat earther nonesense.

Context, debating point if that’s what the Russians are putting is it not worth hearing and refuting? Are you worried you might start to believe it or something? Just because the Russians are putting out fake news, hiding from the fact that they are doing it serves no purpose whatsoever. But hey, if you feel that pretending it isn’t happening means it will all go away then maybe Internet forums aren’t the place for you.

FishFish

My notable experience of Russia is a lovely 4 hour bike ride within the agricultural region near Crimea, rejecting the overpriced Moscow hotel and staying at Beta - one of the four olympic blocks converted to cheap hotels, the nice people of Novorossisyk , a good meal at N0 2 Red Square - probably a ripoff tourist place - and the hassle of going from T1 to T2 in Shermetyevo.

Maybe some people don't care about their views on nerve gas - I don't and dressing it up as fake news is psychotic - if you think it is a lie then say so. It is not news other than us making it news - just a lie. We don't HAVE to engage with your opinions and we may like them, dislike them or disrespect them. And we don't have to debate with you or your opinions and it is up to us to decide if you are well informed or not.

rick_chasey

bianchimoon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why bother posting that?


Might as well post a bunch of flat earther nonesense.

Context, debating point if that’s what the Russians are putting is it not worth hearing and refuting? Are you worried you might start to believe it or something? Just because the Russians are putting out fake news, hiding from the fact that they are doing it serves no purpose whatsoever. But hey, if you feel that pretending it isn’t happening means it will all go away then maybe Internet forums aren’t the place for you.

It is absolute nonesense.

We know Russia flat out lies about this stuff. They say it anyway to sow seeds of doubt.

They know the lazy way to achieve “balance” is to parrot both sides and just leave the statements there hanging, as if they are equals.

Don’t do their dirty work for them.

rick_chasey

FishFish wrote:

My notable experience of Russia is a lovely 4 hour bike ride within the agricultural region near Crimea, .

So you were cycling in Ukraine?

bendertherobot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

FishFish wrote:

My notable experience of Russia is a lovely 4 hour bike ride within the agricultural region near Crimea, .

So you were cycling in Ukraine?

Novorossisyk is definitely in Russia, to the east of the Crime peninsula.

bianchimoon

Rick Chasey wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why bother posting that?


Might as well post a bunch of flat earther nonesense.

Context, debating point if that’s what the Russians are putting is it not worth hearing and refuting? Are you worried you might start to believe it or something? Just because the Russians are putting out fake news, hiding from the fact that they are doing it serves no purpose whatsoever. But hey, if you feel that pretending it isn’t happening means it will all go away then maybe Internet forums aren’t the place for you.

It is absolute nonesense.

We know Russia flat out lies about this stuff. They say it anyway to sow seeds of doubt.

They know the lazy way to achieve “balance” is to parrot both sides and just leave the statements there hanging, as if they are equals.

Don’t do their dirty work for them.

I totally agree it is absolute nonsense and that Russia lies about this stuff, but as this is a thread about Britain’s response to Russia it is valid to post what they are saying about the U.K. I posted the Russian quote not to “do their dirty work” but to show how ridiculous and desperate they are.

FishFish

Rick Chasey wrote:

FishFish wrote:

My notable experience of Russia is a lovely 4 hour bike ride within the agricultural region near Crimea, .

So you were cycling in Ukraine?

It was Anapa in Russia - I was working and borrowed a bike - absolutely lovely area. Went to Odessa in Ukraine also for work and a bit of whoring.

FishFish

bianchimoon wrote:

I totally agree it is absolute nonsense and that Russia lies about this stuff, but as this is a thread about Britain’s response to Russia it is valid to post what they are saying about the U.K. I posted the Russian quote not to “do their dirty work” but to show how ridiculous and desperate they are.

Russia is not desperate - just angry. Putin may be ridiculous and in context so is Trump and Boris, Kim Jong Un and the leaders of most African States. Not forgetting some fat Germans, the one in scotland, Ireland Spain and quite a few in quite a few Royal families.

But no-one on an internet forum of course.