Velo South 2018

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Comments

  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    I disagree - you don't need evidence that more folk have entered the "exclusive 100 miles club" - it's hardly exclusive - although for new and less confident cyclists it remains a milestone to achieve.

    Enabling riders to go for a 100 mile goal can encourage more riding - so giving them a closed road will get them training (I know of several who are using this as their first 100 miler and therefore riding more now) - if they ride more then some will commute (yay), some won't - and that can be down to logistics as well as traffic - but on the whole it equals less inactivity. The more that people ride, the more that they'll realise that shorter distances are achievable without much time/effort and more likely to do local trips by bike, rather than just jumping in the car each time.

    No, it's not for everyone - but it doesn't need to be.

    Sorry - I really don't see that it is elitist in the slightest.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,318
    I don't believe for a moment that encouraging closed roads riding will in turn encourage open road riding... it seems a bizarre thing...

    As for elitist... well, if you look at it from the perspective of a resident in the area, they will see a bunch of middle class people forking out 100 quid or more to close their local roads, so that they can have them for themselves... it is elitist and it is not very inclusive either... residents are not offered to play any role, they probably can't even go to the ride village and take in the atmosphere, because the roads are fricking close!!
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    I don't believe for a moment that encouraging closed roads riding will in turn encourage open road riding... it seems a bizarre thing...
    Not really as people will have to do some riding prior to hitting 100 miles - ok, they could do that on a turbo - but highly unlikely - more likely to be on select roads.
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    As for elitist... well, if you look at it from the perspective of a resident in the area, they will see a bunch of middle class people forking out 100 quid or more to close their local roads, so that they can have them for themselves... it is elitist and it is not very inclusive either... residents are not offered to play any role, they probably can't even go to the ride village and take in the atmosphere, because the roads are ******* close!!
    Well - the village closest to the start/finish point will be opening the village hall (alongside the route) for refreshments and general merriment of the villagers - there are a number of residents taking part too.

    The haters will hate - the more sensible ones have looked at it, realise it's one day and one day only and plan accordingly. You're not going to please everyone - no matter what you did - they'd complain about an organised ride through the village even if it didn't close roads - purely because it's an inconvenience to them.

    Interestingly - the SVS group put up a video of an ambulance going through a village on Blues during a closed road event - the riders stayed on the left but kept riding leaving the ambulance to use the right hand lane - they're suggesting that the riders didn't give way, however, I'm not sure the ambulance was impeded at all as 1) it had motor cycle outriders and 2) they knew there wouldn't be any oncoming traffic. Should the riders have stopped on the left? Bit of yes and no there IMHO.
  • peat
    peat Posts: 1,242
    Yeah, I saw that one. Trying to incite outrage, but it looked fine to me as there was never going to be oncoming traffic to deal with. The reason it was going slowly was more to do with the mini roundabout it had to bump over.

    Speaking of which, the default reaction of 'stop' for the blues and twos can cause just as much trouble. I was overtaken (in my car) by an ambulance last year. I had lifted off the throttle to let them pass easily, the car infront of me slowed to a stop, as did the oncoming car, both stopping next to each other blocking the entire carriageway.

    Slow clap.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Peat wrote:
    Speaking of which, the default reaction of 'stop' for the blues and twos can cause just as much trouble.
    Indeed it can - although you will fail a driving test if you don't - even though, by stopping, you would've caused an accident because an idiot was following you too closely ... [/sore point]

    SVS have tried to use "blocking emergency services" as a reason to stop the event - failing to recognise that emergency services HAVE been consulted and agree with it - and whilst not all riders will get out of the way, on the whole, the emergency services will most likely have faster access due to not having to worry about all the cars in the way.
  • peat
    peat Posts: 1,242
    Slowbike wrote:
    although you will fail a driving test if you don't

    Huh!? I did not know that. Bizarre.

    I think many of them (SVS navel gazers) make the mistake of describing particular situations that they claim means the event 'can't possibly go ahead'.
    - "My eldery relative lives on the route and requires 2x care visits daily!" Stay with them for the day or have them or your house then.
    - "I live on the route and have a horse 2.5miles away. I need to be able to get to it." Either go before and after the closure, leave your car somewhere off the route OR JUST BLADDY WALK!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Peat wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    although you will fail a driving test if you don't

    Huh!? I did not know that. Bizarre.
    yup - I did ...despite the fact that I didn't impede the emergency vehicle. Stupid examiner hadn't noticed the car in my boot and as it wasn't a driving school car I wasn't about to crunch it!
    Peat wrote:
    I think many of them (SVS navel gazers) make the mistake of describing particular situations that they claim means the event 'can't possibly go ahead'.
    - "My eldery relative lives on the route and requires 2x care visits daily!" Stay with them for the day or have them or your house then.
    - "I live on the route and have a horse 2.5miles away. I need to be able to get to it." Either go before and after the closure, leave your car somewhere off the route OR JUST BLADDY WALK!
    Some of the scenarios they're dreaming up are hilarious - it's invent an excuse time - I wonder if they were good at creative writing - or still got a detention for not doing their homework....
    Stupid thing is - some of the road closures are very long and will impact quite a number of people and businesses - and I don't believe they've had any/much communication with the organisers.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    I don't believe for a moment that encouraging closed roads riding will in turn encourage open road riding... it seems a bizarre thing...

    As for elitist... well, if you look at it from the perspective of a resident in the area, they will see a bunch of middle class people forking out 100 quid or more to close their local roads, so that they can have them for themselves... it is elitist and it is not very inclusive either... residents are not offered to play any role, they probably can't even go to the ride village and take in the atmosphere, because the roads are ******* close!!


    It was marketed and sold as a close road sportive - end of.

    What role are you suggesting for residents ?

    People lined the route for velo Birmingham and applauded us through every village.

    So if was a non closed road sportive, the people riding wouldn't be middle class, it would be inclusive, not elitist, and local residents would have a role to play ? - what a load of old waffle
  • Kvin
    Kvin Posts: 4
    Ah regrettably having paid for a ticket (which being middle class and wearing lycra and being self entitled and all that I could easily afford) I can't go and imprison the locals in their homes. I suspect the missus (who is after all planning on being on the back of the tandem) won't go without me so if anyone wants a place please shout before the 12th August. I didn't splash out the extra £25 on parking mind so you might have to ride to the start.

    I do enjoy the stop velo south facebook page. I sympathise with local businesses who may lose money, and the organisers do seem to be more money grubbing capitalist than inclusive sport enabling heros. But I think that those who are in hysterics about not having their Tesco delivery on sunday or might be made to walk to feed the horse undermine the cause.
  • Philip Whiteman
    Philip Whiteman Posts: 470
    edited August 2018
    Kvin wrote:

    I do enjoy the stop velo south facebook page. I sympathise with local businesses who may lose money, and the organisers do seem to be more money grubbing capitalist than inclusive sport enabling heros. But I think that those who are in hysterics about not having their Tesco delivery on sunday or might be made to walk to feed the horse undermine the cause.

    There were two groups of cyclists at last year's Velobirmingham: those that loved it and those that did not.

    I know plenty of riders that paid a small fortune to ride the event and were chronically let down by CSM, who were prepared to take the fee but sold cyclist's short. Here are some examples:

    1. Slower riders without endurance experience were dependent upon feed controls to support their ride. Around half of the 10,000 starters found the feed controls out of stock and suffered as a result on the climb over the final sections. This was inexcusable and not beyond the writs of man to order sufficient quantities.
    2. Slower riders returned to the ICC only to find it locked with an operative standing over by a box next to the front door.
    3. CSM delayed the start due idiots laying tacks on the road. That is fair enough but slower riders were then subjected to the main roads in Birmingham be re-opened and having to negotiate tricky traffic conditions.
    4. CSM were uncontactable when riders returned to a padlocked car park which they had paid CSM to use. The police were called and officers had to force the locks open.

    It will be interesting to see if any of these or similar problems are repeated.
  • clockingbikes
    clockingbikes Posts: 3
    Peat wrote:
    That SVS group is a cesspit of hysteria. They are spending far longer winding each other up over this than the event was ever going to affect them.

    But the thing is, i agree with them that it's a fairly major loss of liberty to be forced upon them. And that the people most affected will see the least benefit - Chicester & Goodwood locale will see a spike in bookings/meals yet remain unencumbered by road closures. The organisation seems a bit lackluster. Failure to sufficiently notify those affected and some of the road closure timings are questionable - some of the roads at the end of the course are closed hours before even a pro rider would make it to there.

    The long and short of it - I don't think these sorts of events do 'us' any favors in the long haul. It's a nice day out for 15k but a PITA for alot more. It gives plenty of additional ammunition to the anti-cycling brigade and may even encourage more members.

    I think "Peat" seems a sensible guy and seems to have the right balance. Those of us like me who live in the area will be cycling around long after the visitors have left. We don't want to antagonise the locals any more than they are already. My guess is that the race is far too long and needs to be made smaller to keep the roads open. CSM don't care they just want the lolly come what may, and then clear off. They still have not notified the locals of what exactly is going on. I think on the day I will be out on my "Dawes Hybrid" but head off over to the Meon Valley away from it all.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    its' not a race.
  • BikerGroveish
    BikerGroveish Posts: 183
    Slowbike wrote:
    its' not a race.

    If you issue numbers and time people it’s a de facto race.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    BikerGroveish wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    its' not a race.

    If you issue numbers and time people it’s a de facto race.

    It's only a race when you compare the times.

    British Heart Foundation issued numbers for their ride around Goodwood motor circuit the other week - I can assure you, it wasn't a race ...
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,061
    I'm very observant, after popping into this thread from time to time, I've just realised it rides the https://www.strava.com/segments/724253 cat4 I did as part of ~9000 foot 104 miler in late May (with a rucksack on my back)! :D

    The approach to the climb is lovely, the woodland reminded me of Longeat Center Parcs. The climb itself starts quite steady, but it ramps up quite a bit as you turn through the big left sweeper, not as steep as the South Harting www.strava.com/segments/2724911 cat4 that is getting a fearful reputation on here when tackled ~90 miles to this sportive... But your legs will know about it. ;)
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    Slowbike wrote:
    BikerGroveish wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    its' not a race.

    If you issue numbers and time people it’s a de facto race.

    It's only a race when you compare the times.

    British Heart Foundation issued numbers for their ride around Goodwood motor circuit the other week - I can assure you, it wasn't a race ...

    I was really looking forward to that ride at goodwood, then the weather was shite so I didn't go.
    At least a bit of my entry money went to BHF
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Dannbodge wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    BikerGroveish wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    its' not a race.

    If you issue numbers and time people it’s a de facto race.

    It's only a race when you compare the times.

    British Heart Foundation issued numbers for their ride around Goodwood motor circuit the other week - I can assure you, it wasn't a race ...

    I was really looking forward to that ride at goodwood, then the weather was shite so I didn't go.
    At least a bit of my entry money went to BHF

    We went anyway - very windy - made riding up the home straight quite tough ... got out of the saddle to "sprint" and found my speed dropping instead ... going along the back was nice though - wind behind you ..
    Wet is wet - and we got wet... didn't stay long, although I heard a few had done double digit laps
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,318
    Slowbike wrote:
    Wet is wet - and we got wet... didn't stay long, although I heard a few had done double digit laps


    Sad, almost as sad as those 12/24 hour TT on dual carriageways
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Wet is wet - and we got wet... didn't stay long, although I heard a few had done double digit laps


    Sad, almost as sad as those 12/24 hour TT on dual carriageways

    ?! what's sad? Those doing double digit laps? Why? It was quite refreshing in the wind & rain, totally car free and they may have had sponsorship against doing a certain number of laps. Why is it sad? Is everything sad unless they ride an audax?

    Riding an audax is sad, you're going on a pre-defined route and have to check in at various points and you earn points and badges - that's proper sad ... or, perhaps it's just a different activity that interests you and a few others. Riding around a motor circuit on a bike is still riding a bike and people get different things out of it.

    I tell you what IS sad - that you feel the need to critisise or belittle everything that everyone else does - does it make you feel better or superior?
  • Brakeless
    Brakeless Posts: 865
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Wet is wet - and we got wet... didn't stay long, although I heard a few had done double digit laps


    Sad, almost as sad as those 12/24 hour TT on dual carriageways

    How many 24 hour TTs are currently held on Dual Carriageways ?
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    Slowbike wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    Wet is wet - and we got wet... didn't stay long, although I heard a few had done double digit laps


    Sad, almost as sad as those 12/24 hour TT on dual carriageways

    ?! what's sad? Those doing double digit laps? Why? It was quite refreshing in the wind & rain, totally car free and they may have had sponsorship against doing a certain number of laps. Why is it sad? Is everything sad unless they ride an audax?

    Riding an audax is sad, you're going on a pre-defined route and have to check in at various points and you earn points and badges - that's proper sad ... or, perhaps it's just a different activity that interests you and a few others. Riding around a motor circuit on a bike is still riding a bike and people get different things out of it.

    I tell you what IS sad - that you feel the need to critisise or belittle everything that everyone else does - does it make you feel better or superior?

    What he said^

    This particular ride at GW is great.
    Last year it was sunny and full of familys with smaller children, people on tandems, in fancy dress and even a dozen or so disabled people.

    It's charity event so I'm not quite sure why it's sad.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,318
    Hey,

    I'm just adapting to this brave new world, where trolling and offending others is the way to go about in life... I mean, look at Trump, Bojo, Salvini in Italy... politically incorrect is the new politically correct...

    Or something like that... :roll:

    Either way... lapping a circuit is a bit uninspiring (and paying money to do so seems a bit crazy) and yes, chasing medals and badges is very sad... and I am a sad individual... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Either way... lapping a circuit is a bit uninspiring (and paying money to do so seems a bit crazy)
    It's £15 entry and you can do as many as you like - how much you donate to the charity is up to you/your sponsors ... uninspiring - yes the circuit itself is quite boring - however, the fun is with the people you meet on the way around ...
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    and yes, chasing medals and badges is very sad... and I am a sad individual... :wink:
    then ride with others, not all by yourself - you won't be so sad then ;)
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,318
    it's people that make me sad... :-(
    left the forum March 2023
  • PostieJohn
    PostieJohn Posts: 1,105
    I bit the bullet earlier this week and rode Spithandle Lane.

    Much to my surprise it was a pleasure to ride and has gone from one of the worst roads in Sussex, to one of the better ones!!
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12792776
  • davep1
    davep1 Posts: 837
    PostieJohn wrote:
    I bit the bullet earlier this week and rode Spithandle Lane.

    Much to my surprise it was a pleasure to ride and has gone from one of the worst roads in Sussex, to one of the better ones!!

    Hmmm, not sure that is true! At least on the day of Velosouth we won't have anyone coming in the opposite direction to us (hopefully!) to make the left right chicane dangerous, althouth hopefully there will be a marshall there. There is enough of a downhill into it to mean you arrive with plenty of speed, and it is an extreme left-right.
    The second left-right isn't as extreme but the surface is more messed up and there will probably be gravel on it.
  • PostieJohn
    PostieJohn Posts: 1,105
    DaveP1 wrote:
    PostieJohn wrote:
    I bit the bullet earlier this week and rode Spithandle Lane.

    Much to my surprise it was a pleasure to ride and has gone from one of the worst roads in Sussex, to one of the better ones!!

    Hmmm, not sure that is true! At least on the day of Velosouth we won't have anyone coming in the opposite direction to us (hopefully!) to make the left right chicane dangerous, althouth hopefully there will be a marshall there. There is enough of a downhill into it to mean you arrive with plenty of speed, and it is an extreme left-right.
    The second left-right isn't as extreme but the surface is more messed up and there will probably be gravel on it.
    I'm going to guess you'd not ridden SHLane before it had been top coated? It made Roubaix look like a race track.

    Somewhat out of character WSCC seem to have done the job properly (well better than usual) and not just poured extra gravel into the really big holes!
    There didn't appear to be any loose gravel on the road.
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12792776
  • Philip Whiteman
    Philip Whiteman Posts: 470
    Having seen the way in which CSM operate towards local communities during Velo Birmingham, I have very little sympathy towards their organisation but my sympathies towards some of the protesters at Velo South has expired too. The Stop Velo South Facebook Group reveals some seriously unhinged individuals seeking to disrupt or even harm participants at the event. That is clealry not acceptable.

    Yesterday, somebody posted a link to an Amazon page selling fake pistols to be pointed at riders - although the Facebook administrator clearly had sense to remove the link shortly afterwards. Other messages include videos of peloton crashes with the clear inference on wishing for similar on 23rd September. Saying that, there are some individuals who take a more moderate line including crowd-funding for legal advice, postering or exercising pedestrian rights, as per their democratic right.

    Whilst no fan of CSM, the invective against entrants is disappointing to say the least. Protesters should aim fire at CSM Active Ltd and West Sussex County Council if they want the event halted or amended and reduce themselves to the gutter by threatening innocent individuals seeking to have an enjoyable day. If criminal behaviour does occur the hope that the Sussex Constabulary will be viewing the Stop Velo South Facebook group with interest.

    Assuming the event goes ahead and it most certainly will, riders should be unencumbered and given a cheery wave and not face unwarranted aggression.
  • phil_h
    phil_h Posts: 14
    So...
    There is as much cr4p being written here (as usual) as on the SVS pages...
    However, there is (as usual) also a lot of common sense too !!!

    My wife and I live in the middle of it all, and are avid mtb-ers, so our 'radar' _usually_ picks up bike-related events.
    The first we heard of all this was a leaflet drop this week, and we have been on the back foot doing wtf since then.

    CSM are obviously money-grabbing b'strds and have planned all this assuming resistance so have been very stealthy, knowing that any county council etc. dont know their ar53 from their elbow and will be bamboozled by simple spin.
    The fact that most people who enter very probably already ride around here will be lost on them.
    The fact that half of the entrants will have no idea what riding 100 miles is like and will have significant problems will be lost on them.

    The fact that cycling groups have already stirred up resentment around the countryside will be lost on them.
    (And dont tell me that you are reading this and dont know how much swearing goes on inside cars when they come round a country bend and find a rider on the white line while trying to get something out of their back pocket while talking to another rider !)

    These so-called 'velo' events will not do roadies any favours, and I think you should expect significant disruption.

    And anyway, why do you think you should be allowed to take over the roads like this ?
    Its not even a race :wink:
  • BikerGroveish
    BikerGroveish Posts: 183
    phil_h wrote:
    So...
    There is as much cr4p being written here (as usual) as on the SVS pages...
    However, there is (as usual) also a lot of common sense too !!!

    My wife and I live in the middle of it all, and are avid mtb-ers, so our 'radar' _usually_ picks up bike-related events.
    The first we heard of all this was a leaflet drop this week, and we have been on the back foot doing wtf since then.

    CSM are obviously money-grabbing b'strds and have planned all this assuming resistance so have been very stealthy, knowing that any county council etc. dont know their ar53 from their elbow and will be bamboozled by simple spin.
    The fact that most people who enter very probably already ride around here will be lost on them.
    The fact that half of the entrants will have no idea what riding 100 miles is like and will have significant problems will be lost on them.

    The fact that cycling groups have already stirred up resentment around the countryside will be lost on them.
    (And dont tell me that you are reading this and dont know how much swearing goes on inside cars when they come round a country bend and find a rider on the white line while trying to get something out of their back pocket while talking to another rider !)

    These so-called 'velo' events will not do roadies any favours, and I think you should expect significant disruption.

    And anyway, why do you think you should be allowed to take over the roads like this ?
    Its not even a race :wink:

    I hope anyone who tries to ‘disrupt’ this event gets what they deserve. Whether or not the organisers are ‘money grabbing whatever’s’ or not is of no consequence to me. I paid for a closed road 100 mile ride if anyone tries to ‘disrupt’ it god help them if it affects me.

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