Veganism

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Pross wrote:

Out of interest and something me and the wife were discussing the day before this thread started. Do vegans use wool products? Genuine question - I assume they do but then couldn’t see any difference between that and other animal products such as dairy that don’t require an animal to be killed.

I think it's a flat out no animal products but there's quite a difference between inducing cows to produce milk, and shearing.

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

The vegans I know do it for environmental & health reasons more than welfare tbh. Lower carbon footprint, fewer dodgy hormones ingested, etc.

joenobody

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean, I’ve overheard people doing “veganury”.

As my brother, a non-vegan, commented on FB on hearing that news "I can't wait for Kebabuary, Meatch, Steaktember and Decemburger". I chipped in with "Choptober" (not all vegans are humourless). Closest I could get to another vegan option was "Tofuly" but I didn't think that was as funny as the meat ones :shock:

rick_chasey

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean, I’ve overheard people doing “veganury”.

As my brother, a non-vegan, commented on FB on hearing that news "I can't wait for Kebabuary, Meatch, Steaktember and Decemburger". I chipped in with "Choptober" (not all vegans are humourless). Closest I could get to another vegan option was "Tofuly" but I didn't think that was as funny as the meat ones :shock:

I'm just trying to illustrate what could be behind the carpet bombing of clapham common with vegan adds.

joenobody

rjsterry wrote:

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

I get the impression that vegan dog owners, and pet owners in general, tend to favour rescue animals.

joenobody

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

rick_chasey

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

Oh come off it.

I had some vegan friends. They could never come out.

rjsterry

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean, I’ve overheard people doing “veganury”.

As my brother, a non-vegan, commented on FB on hearing that news "I can't wait for Kebabuary, Meatch, Steaktember and Decemburger". I chipped in with "Choptober" (not all vegans are humourless). Closest I could get to another vegan option was "Tofuly" but I didn't think that was as funny as the meat ones :shock:

Does Tofebruary work better?

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Pross wrote:

Out of interest and something me and the wife were discussing the day before this thread started. Do vegans use wool products? Genuine question - I assume they do but then couldn’t see any difference between that and other animal products such as dairy that don’t require an animal to be killed.

I think it's a flat out no animal products but there's quite a difference between inducing cows to produce milk, and shearing.

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

The vegans I know do it for environmental & health reasons more than welfare tbh. Lower carbon footprint, fewer dodgy hormones ingested, etc.

That one just won't die. Growth hormone use in livestock is banned in the EU . Has been since 1981.

joenobody

bompington wrote:

What I've always wondered is... are true vegans allowed to eat organic veg? You know, that uses animal poo to grow? I'd have thought that logically, they must be restricted to man-made chemicals...

Manure is not explicitly the result of animal exploitation though. I do wonder what it would mean in terms of availability of said manure in the unlikely event the whole world went vegan. I suppose you'd have "free range" animals providing it, but that could still raise potential exploitation concerns.

joenobody

Rick Chasey wrote:

I had some vegan friends. They could never come out.

Their social life isn't my social life

joenobody

rjsterry wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean, I’ve overheard people doing “veganury”.

As my brother, a non-vegan, commented on FB on hearing that news "I can't wait for Kebabuary, Meatch, Steaktember and Decemburger". I chipped in with "Choptober" (not all vegans are humourless). Closest I could get to another vegan option was "Tofuly" but I didn't think that was as funny as the meat ones :shock:

Does Tofebruary work better?

Much better

Thick Mike

What the OP seems to have a problem with is the advertising industry, not veganism.

sungod

rjsterry wrote:

Pross wrote:

Out of interest and something me and the wife were discussing the day before this thread started. Do vegans use wool products? Genuine question - I assume they do but then couldn’t see any difference between that and other animal products such as dairy that don’t require an animal to be killed.

I think it's a flat out no animal products but there's quite a difference between inducing cows to produce milk, and shearing.
...

can't see wool being compatible with the vegan position - those sheep seem bred for an unnatural excess of wool, surely it'll invite disease/early death without pesticides and/or shearing, they're often penned up, spray painted, chased by sheepdogs, subjected to stress etc.

chris_bass

rjsterry wrote:

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

"true" Vegans shouldn't have pets that weren't rescue animals

chris_bass

rjsterry wrote:

That one just won't die. Growth hormone use in livestock is banned in the EU . Has been since 1981.

cow's milk is meant to help a cow grow from birth to big very quickly, no unnatural hormones for humans in there?

bompington

Chris Bass wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

"true" Vegans shouldn't have pets that weren't rescue animals

Does that mean they can eat livestock that were rescue livestock?

chris_bass

bompington wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I wonder how many vegans keep pedigree dogs, particularly the flat-faced breeds that are very popular at the moment. Breeding dogs that can't breathe properly seems to me somewhat incompatible with those strongly held views on animal welfare.

"true" Vegans shouldn't have pets that weren't rescue animals

Does that mean they can eat livestock that were rescue livestock?

errrrr.... no? you know the killing bit? not too keen on that either!!

chris_bass

Rick Chasey wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

Oh come off it.

I had some vegan friends. They could never come out.

sounds like they just didn't like you

rick_chasey

Chris Bass wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

Oh come off it.

I had some vegan friends. They could never come out.

sounds like they just didn't like you

Fair.

For me, eating is social. Food is the cornerstone of being social. So if you're not being easy about what you're eating, you're not being social.

So ya. Not for me.

Ben6899

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

I'll second Joe. It doesn't affect one's social life whatsoever. I won't qualify this because I know, Rick, that you're sufficiently intelligent to realise.

Ben6899

Mouth wrote:

I'll go on to say that there is absolutely no moral standpoint to be a vegetarian on the basis of animal welfare if you're not going to be a vegan - the treatment of livestock in the dairy industry makes the meat trade look like a health spa.

If my situation allowed then I would be full vegan. Unfortunately my circumstances don't allow so I take on some (a little it has to be said) dairy and - as explained - some responsibly sourced fish. I'm doing as much as I can.

Like I say though - each to their own, I really don't mind until a militant omnivore (they do exist) comes along as soon as I mention that I don't eat meat.

rick_chasey

Ben6899 wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

I'll second Joe. It doesn't affect one's social life whatsoever. I won't qualify this because I know, Rick, that you're sufficiently intelligent to realise.

Sure you must just not socialise over food as much.

Almost all my socialising is over food. It’s my favourite thing to do. I just would never want to adds friction to that process.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

I'll second Joe. It doesn't affect one's social life whatsoever. I won't qualify this because I know, Rick, that you're sufficiently intelligent to realise.

Sure you must just not socialise over food as much.

Almost all my socialising is over food. It’s my favourite thing to do. I just would never want to adds friction to that process.

Is basically all I do. Genuinely. I have friends who are vegan who don't mind me eating fish and, similarly, I don't mind other friends tucking into steak or a burger.

If I had friends who had an issue with my diet then that certainly would impact on socialising, but I reckon they'd be too much of a tw&t anyway!

rick_chasey

But so many places are challenging for vegans.

I can't think of a restaurant I've been to recently where that'd work.

I mean, I made sashuska the other day for brunch, so I guess I could have scooped half of it out and then cooked the eggs for the rest, but what a faff.

I have to say, I find people's food anxieties and issues incredibly unattractive. People can do what they want, whatever, but it really rubs me up the wrong way.

I love cooking for people, but christ, eat what you're given.

joenobody

Rick Chasey wrote:

I can't think of a restaurant I've been to recently where that'd work.

It does make restaurant selection a little trickier, but it's not really all that hard. I've eaten in places recently that, looking at the menu, would be tricky to accommodate me, but given advance warning I've always been amply looked after.

I love cooking for people, but christ, eat what you're given.

Would you give a Hindu beef, or a Jew pork? The people I know who love cooking relish the challenge of finding something suitable for me, and sometimes that means the whole menu is vegan. Other times it means that there's something for me alongside unsuitable choices. Come to my house though and it'll be vegan all the way, if only to show that it's just as tasty (or more so) than non-vegan. Unless you bring kids, as getting them to eat only plants can be tricky, so they might get fish and/or eggs.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

But so many places are challenging for vegans.

I can't think of a restaurant I've been to recently where that'd work.

There are plenty.

I think it's a little unfair to call it "food anxiety". Some people are pains in the ar$e, granted. However some do it because they believe in it strongly and others have dietary needs.

debeli

I am a meat-eater but many of my meals are vegetarian... partly because 2 of our kids were veggie for many years and the habit stuck with us as a family.

I think it is fine to be veggie or vegan if it works for you and meets with your moral or ethical outlook. It is not my way, but it does not seem unhealthy. In many cases quite the reverse.

I do think we consume too much red meat in 'western society'. There are some real tug boats shuffling weightily around whose guts are full of half-digested meat. It is cheap to eat well... And it is cheap to eat less.

I do also rather think that we are now distanced from meat production. I have never slaughtered a cow or a sheep or goat, but I have killed, plucked and prepared a lot of poultry and it is a messy business. I've helped with shearing and lambing, so I can imagine that killing a larger animal is quite messy and might elicit some fairly visceral response.

But... and this is the point (eventually): There does seem in modern diet choice to be a teensy element of virtue signalling among those who make a big fuss about what they will or won't eat. It really is just lunch. Enjoy it.

rjsterry

Ben6899 wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

I'll second Joe. It doesn't affect one's social life whatsoever. I won't qualify this because I know, Rick, that you're sufficiently intelligent to realise.

Conversely my 6 year old has a much better social life than me, in spite of my consumption of meat

Out of interest, is there a reason for eating fish, but not venison or other wild game? (if you don't mind me asking)

bompington

JoeNobody wrote:

Would you give a Hindu beef, or a Jew pork?

Gives the game away - essentially, Veganism is a religion.

Ben6899

rjsterry wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It must kill your social life.

Not in the slightest. Eating out generally means choosing somewhere with decent options, but that's more common these days anyway.

I'll second Joe. It doesn't affect one's social life whatsoever. I won't qualify this because I know, Rick, that you're sufficiently intelligent to realise.

Conversely my 6 year old has a much better social life than me, in spite of my consumption of meat

Out of interest, is there a reason for eating fish, but not venison or other wild game? (if you don't mind me asking)

I don't mind you asking at all.

I'd prefer to be totally vegan, if truth be told, but it's not really compatible with my gut. Vegan diets are typically very high fibre and I also need to be careful to do enough to give my gut a chance to pull all nutrients possible from what I eat.

Fish, eggs and some dairy is a good compromise as I find it easy to verify things like MSC, pole caught, organic, free range etc.

I'd rather not go into finer details, but there's legit medical science behind how I proceed!