Veganism

drlodge

Ben6899 wrote:

We take it to the next level though. Don't we?

We take it way beyond what I consider reasonable and we've done this by using our supreme intelligence.

Define 'next level'...we certainly kill a lot of animals, but there are a lot more of us humans. So numbers have increased.

Quality of life of the animals has certainly gone down IMO, where as they used to live in the wild, they're now housed in places that can't be regarded as wild by any stretch of the imagination.

And their ultimate demise? I think a lot better than it used to be. Killing an animal with a big stone or spear would not be very nice at all, I'd say today's "humane" methods of killing are better than they used to be.

So a mixed bag...more animals, have a poorer quality of life, but killed in a better manner.

Ben6899

drlodge wrote:

Define 'next level'...

Breeding them rather than hunting them, for our convenience.
Feeding them growth hormone and "special" feed, for our convenience.
Moving them around in cramped, motorised transport, for our convenience.

I take your point about dying by the spear rather than by modern methods, but apart from that we pretty much take the p1ss with it.

I said very early in this thread that I'd love to cut out dairy all together, but circumstances don't allow. The way we keep cows pregnant in order to satisfy the burgeoning need for their milk... well it's nothing short of barbaric and it's certainly something that one living being should never be doing to another.

joenobody

drlodge wrote:

All carnivores "exploit" other animals, its called survival and its the way mother nature intended.

Except we're not carnivores - we're omnivores. And not just that, we're omnivores that don't need to eat meat to survive. Some animals are obligate carnivores, and must eat meat to survive.

veronese68

I get what Ben means, my line is in a different place to his though and as a result I'm quite happy to eat meat, although I prefer it hasn't suffered too much in the process, although this is very hard to prove so being a bit of a hypocrite I tend to ignore it. I won't eat foie gras and avoid veal because production is not what I consider humane, but Fish² will. We all have different ideas of what is acceptable. Things that are cruel should be legislated against, this includes farming methods, slaughtering and all aspects of rearing the animals. Although different people have different ideas as to what constitutes cruelty so hard to know who is right.
We should be using the superior intelligence Ben refers to and find better ways of doing things, preventing animal cruelty seems like a good idea, protecting the planet rather than wrecking it would seem to be a good starting point. But there are a lot of seemingly intelligent people that are quite happy to kill animals for fun and screw the planet for personal gain so I don't think we are that intelligent at all.

Ben6899

Veronese68 wrote:

I get what Ben means, my line is in a different place to his though and as a result I'm quite happy to eat meat, although I prefer it hasn't suffered too much in the process, although this is very hard to prove so being a bit of a hypocrite I tend to ignore it. I won't eat foie gras and avoid veal because production is not what I consider humane, but Fish² will. We all have different ideas of what is acceptable. Things that are cruel should be legislated against, this includes farming methods, slaughtering and all aspects of rearing the animals. Although different people have different ideas as to what constitutes cruelty so hard to know who is right.
We should be using the superior intelligence Ben refers to and find better ways of doing things, preventing animal cruelty seems like a good idea, protecting the planet rather than wrecking it would seem to be a good starting point. But there are a lot of seemingly intelligent people that are quite happy to kill animals for fun and screw the planet for personal gain so I don't think we are that intelligent at all.

Maybe "intelligence" should be written as such!

veronese68

Ben6899 wrote:

Maybe "intelligence" should be written as such!

Very much so.

pblakeney

JoeNobody wrote:

And not just that, we're omnivores that don't need to eat to survive.

Most of the stuff on here is just personal opinion.
I will call bullshit on that one though.

joenobody

PBlakeney wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

And not just that, we're omnivores that don't need to eat to survive.

Most of the stuff on here is just personal opinion.
I will call bullshit on that one though.

Thanks for the typo spotting. Duly updated :shock: :oops: