Get Moscon out

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Comments

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Is he even in the top 10 Bad Boys of Cycling?

    I had a fantasy team last year consisting purely of riders who had served a suspension or been kicked off a race etc. He'll be a valuable addition to this year's Bad Boys team, replacing one of the retirees. One decision to go their way and they could be up for a big year.
    If that last sentence is a reference to Froome, then surely he's already eligible having been DQed from the 2010 Giro.

    I forgot that - Nibali style.

    To be fair, the others would view him as a lightweight. They all hit someone or got done for drugs.

    Froome stole kids' pet bunny rabbits and fed them to his snake.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,143
    TailWindHome wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Is he even in the top 10 Bad Boys of Cycling?

    I had a fantasy team last year consisting purely of riders who had served a suspension or been kicked off a race etc. He'll be a valuable addition to this year's Bad Boys team, replacing one of the retirees. One decision to go their way and they could be up for a big year.
    If that last sentence is a reference to Froome, then surely he's already eligible having been DQed from the 2010 Giro.

    I forgot that - Nibali style.

    To be fair, the others would view him as a lightweight. They all hit someone or got done for drugs.

    Froome stole kids' pet bunny rabbits and fed them to his snake.

    True, pets from a kindergarten - "As an adult, the guilt about that stays with me. Young children would arrive at class the next day and their little baby bunny rabbits would be gone."
  • tim000
    tim000 Posts: 718
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Is he even in the top 10 Bad Boys of Cycling?

    I had a fantasy team last year consisting purely of riders who had served a suspension or been kicked off a race etc. He'll be a valuable addition to this year's Bad Boys team, replacing one of the retirees. One decision to go their way and they could be up for a big year.
    If that last sentence is a reference to Froome, then surely he's already eligible having been DQed from the 2010 Giro.

    I forgot that - Nibali style.

    To be fair, the others would view him as a lightweight. They all hit someone or got done for drugs.

    Froome stole kids' pet bunny rabbits and fed them to his snake.

    True, pets from a kindergarten - "As an adult, the guilt about that stays with me. Young children would arrive at class the next day and their little baby bunny rabbits would be gone."

    and people say he`s boring :lol::lol::lol:
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Totally sympathy with those who regard Moscon as an obnoxious tool. I’ve seen first hand his arrogance on a flight to San Diego for ToC in 2016

    I’m for due process regards the investigation into this latest affair, mind. I’d advocate the same irrespective of the rider.

    But yeah, he’s a right tool

    What did he do sausage face?
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Joelsim wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Totally sympathy with those who regard Moscon as an obnoxious tool. I’ve seen first hand his arrogance on a flight to San Diego for ToC in 2016

    I’m for due process regards the investigation into this latest affair, mind. I’d advocate the same irrespective of the rider.

    But yeah, he’s a right tool

    What did he do sausage face?


    After boarding, he asked cabin crew if he could move to the bulkhead seat in front of his own, attendant said not till after take off. He ignored her and upped and plonked himself into the seat. There was an interlude of argufying, and the crew kicked him back to his original seat. Arrogance really.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Totally sympathy with those who regard Moscon as an obnoxious tool. I’ve seen first hand his arrogance on a flight to San Diego for ToC in 2016

    I’m for due process regards the investigation into this latest affair, mind. I’d advocate the same irrespective of the rider.

    But yeah, he’s a right tool

    What did he do sausage face?


    After boarding, he asked cabin crew if he could move to the bulkhead seat in front of his own, attendant said not till after take off. He ignored her and upped and plonked himself into the seat. There was an interlude of argufying, and the crew kicked him back to his original seat. Arrogance really.

    Thats it???
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    redvision wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Now I'm not black, but if I was given the choice of being punched in the face or called a
    , I think I'd choose the racial slur every time.

    I'm sorry but racial abuse is far worse than being punched. There is no excuse for it and it should not be tolerated.

    Oh and deliberately pushing another rider off their bike mid race is arguably the worst offence a pro cyclist could commit and imo deserves a very lengthy ban.

    Bit late to this but doesn't it depend on the punch ?

    The thing about a racist comment is that I imagine it can leave a lasting impression that others don't really accept you - in something like the pro peloton that must be difficult. I think I'd rather be punched in the face - but by a cyclist not Anthony Joshua.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    redvision wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Now I'm not black, but if I was given the choice of being punched in the face or called a
    , I think I'd choose the racial slur every time.

    I'm sorry but racial abuse is far worse than being punched. There is no excuse for it and it should not be tolerated.

    Oh and deliberately pushing another rider off their bike mid race is arguably the worst offence a pro cyclist could commit and imo deserves a very lengthy ban.

    Bit late to this but doesn't it depend on the punch ?

    The thing about a racist comment is that I imagine it can leave a lasting impression that others don't really accept you - in something like the pro peloton that must be difficult. I think I'd rather be punched in the face - but by a cyclist not Anthony Joshua.

    Isn't it those who make racist comments who are no longer accepted by others?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:

    Isn't it those who make racist comments who are no longer accepted by others?

    Depends on the people you mix with I suppose. I imagine a pro cyclist subject to racist abuse from fellow pros might doubt that is the case.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    I think I'd rather be punched in the face - but by a cyclist not Anthony Joshua.


    Not sure about letting Bouhanni chin me to be honest........
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    I think there is a difference in scale between racist abuse and racism. Verbal abuse of all kinds, tends to focus on the differences between people, and are intended to hurt of course, but at least to me are quick, angry jabs but do not always reflect a persons deeper feelings.
    Racism, by which I mean intentionally denying something to someone based on their race is always wrong.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    kleinstroker wrote:
    I think there is a difference in scale between racist abuse and racism. Verbal abuse of all kinds, tends to focus on the differences between people, and are intended to hurt of course, but at least to me are quick, angry jabs but do not always reflect a persons deeper feelings.
    Racism, by which I mean intentionally denying something to someone based on their race is always wrong.

    This point of view is good. balanced, considered and mature. It also reflects what we see in the "real" world by which i mean not the internet forum world.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    How about not comparing one with the other, since they're not the same?

    Not everything needs moral equivalence.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    How about not comparing one with the other, since they're not the same?

    Not everything needs moral equivalence.

    Except the uci are asked to judge the seriousness of these actions relative to one another.

    Of course the two things aren't the same but things that aren't the same can be compared.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    DeVlaeminck wrote:

    Of course the two things aren't the same but things that aren't the same can be compared.

    OK compare the consistency of my most recent sh!t (think grainy Nutella) with the process of ecclesiastical emancipation.

    :roll:


    The “which is worse” is just side a pointless, harmful sideshow.
    Regarding the issue at hand, one can be a factor in the context of another, but comparing them morally against each other is stupid.
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    How about not comparing one with the other, since they're not the same?

    Not everything needs moral equivalence.
    I only brought up the comparison with being punched in terms of a ban. Sky gave Moscon essentially the same 45 day ban Grivko had just got for punching Kittel. I thought this was proportionate. Others thought it should have been six months.

    In 'the real world' brief physical abuse is, I believe, viewed more seriously legally than brief verbal abuse.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    redvision wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Now I'm not black, but if I was given the choice of being punched in the face or called a
    , I think I'd choose the racial slur every time.

    I'm sorry but racial abuse is far worse than being punched. There is no excuse for it and it should not be tolerated.

    Oh and deliberately pushing another rider off their bike mid race is arguably the worst offence a pro cyclist could commit and imo deserves a very lengthy ban.

    Bit late to this but doesn't it depend on the punch ?

    The thing about a racist comment is that I imagine it can leave a lasting impression that others don't really accept you - in something like the pro peloton that must be difficult. I think I'd rather be punched in the face - but by a cyclist not Anthony Joshua.



    The thing is that there are lots of things people can say to you that can be very hurtful to one person but not such a problem to someone else. It's not just racist abuse that can upset people. I'd say you'd be in the minority regarding the punch but that's your decision. The OP was trying to argue that racist abuse is always worse which is patently not the case.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:

    Of course the two things aren't the same but things that aren't the same can be compared.

    OK compare the consistency of my most recent sh!t (think grainy Nutella) with the process of ecclesiastical emancipation.

    :roll:


    The “which is worse” is just side a pointless, harmful sideshow.
    Regarding the issue at hand, one can be a factor in the context of another, but comparing them morally against each other is stupid.



    *pushes away my bowl of bircher muesli*
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    nickice wrote:
    The OP was trying to argue that racist abuse is always worse which is patently not the case.

    in your opinion.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    redvision wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    The OP was trying to argue that racist abuse is always worse which is patently not the case.

    in your opinion.

    And in legal opinion. Can you provide any convincing arguments that-

    1) racial abuse is always worse.

    2) if that's the case, why other forms of abuse and bullying shouldn't also be worse.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    nickice wrote:
    redvision wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    The OP was trying to argue that racist abuse is always worse which is patently not the case.

    in your opinion.

    And in legal opinion. Can you provide any convincing arguments that-

    1) racial abuse is always worse.

    2) if that's the case, why other forms of abuse and bullying shouldn't also be worse.



    1 - I didn't say racial abuse is always worse. I am saying that racial abuse should not be tolerated and in this case it is worse than the punch.

    2 - no form of bullying should be tolerated.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:

    Of course the two things aren't the same but things that aren't the same can be compared.

    OK compare the consistency of my most recent sh!t (think grainy Nutella) with the process of ecclesiastical emancipation.

    :roll:


    The “which is worse” is just side a pointless, harmful sideshow.
    Regarding the issue at hand, one can be a factor in the context of another, but comparing them morally against each other is stupid.

    Ah but you've put constraints on your analogy, "consistency of", which makes no sense as regards ecclesiastical emancipation.

    Which is worse debate may be a pointless sideshow but harmful...? How harmful..how would it compare to say a punch in the face ?

    Less processed food would be my advice.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    DeVlaeminck wrote:

    Which is worse debate may be a pointless sideshow but harmful...? How harmful..how would it compare to say a punch in the face ?

    This is EXACTLY why it's idiotic.

    And it only encourages smartarse racists like Nickice to chime in.

    Funny how he only turns up when racism is discussed, isn't it?
    _
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    redvision wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    redvision wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    The OP was trying to argue that racist abuse is always worse which is patently not the case.

    in your opinion.

    And in legal opinion. Can you provide any convincing arguments that-

    1) racial abuse is always worse.

    2) if that's the case, why other forms of abuse and bullying shouldn't also be worse.



    1 - I didn't say racial abuse is always worse. I am saying that racial abuse should not be tolerated and in this case it is worse than the punch.

    2 - no form of bullying should be tolerated.

    1) To be fair, you did. This is what you said-
    I'm sorry but racial abuse is far worse than being punched. There is no excuse for it and it should not be tolerated.
    OK, you didn't add in the adverb 'always' but you didn't use any other adverb to qualify it either

    2) So you'd ban all abuse of other riders? Essentially banning trash talking? That would be a consistent, if unworkable, approach.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    edited January 2018
    It was in reference to the Moscon incident and I stand by my opinion.

    People underestimate the impact any type of bullying has. This is a particularly relevant topic today, given the dreadful news from Australia of a young girl who took her own life due to bullying.

    But i guess stories like this are lost on people like you.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Fark me, this one's grim
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    redvision wrote:
    It was in reference to the Moscon incident and I stand by my opinion.

    People underestimate the impact any type of bullying has. This is a particularly relevant topic today, given the dreadful news from Australia of a young girl who took her own life due to bullying.

    But i guess stories like this are lost on people like you.

    I'm generally into having polite discourse but that's simply not true and I don't believe anyone would read what you said as anything other than a general observation. Does that mean you've changed your position re; being punched in the face versus racial abuse? Is it now the case that being punched in the face is potentially worse?

    As for the story about bullying, that's a sad story and just because I have my doubts about the banning or severity punishment of certain kinds of speech does not mean I actively support that kind of speech (a point lost on one particularly idiotic poster who continually tries to defame me and whom I now just ignore). It's something I've thought deeply about as it is directly connected with my area of employment (law).

    The point about bullying was should we treat all forms of bullying in the same way (whether it's based on race or not)? I take bullying (I don't think Moscon could be accused of bullying in this case rather than just very insulting behaviour/verbal abuse) very seriously and I support any movement by schools and companies to stamp it out.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    nickice wrote:

    As for the story about bullying, that's a sad story and just because I have my doubts about the banning or severity punishment of certain kinds of speech does not mean I actively support that kind of speech (a point lost on one particularly idiotic poster who continually tries to defame me and whom I now just ignore). It's something I've thought deeply about as it is directly connected with my area of employment (law).

    Interesting that you claim to be in employment law as from your posts you come across as a person who condones racist comments!

    Anyway, tbh you can think what you like but i will always campaign for equality and stopping all forms of bullying/racist abuse.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    redvision wrote:
    nickice wrote:

    As for the story about bullying, that's a sad story and just because I have my doubts about the banning or severity punishment of certain kinds of speech does not mean I actively support that kind of speech (a point lost on one particularly idiotic poster who continually tries to defame me and whom I now just ignore). It's something I've thought deeply about as it is directly connected with my area of employment (law).

    Interesting that you claim to be in employment law as from your posts you come across as a person who condones racist comments!

    Anyway, tbh you can think what you like but i will always campaign for equality and stopping all forms of bullying/racist abuse.


    Law is my area of employment. I don't work in employment law. Please do show me where I condoned racist comments.... You might be searching for a while (just as anyone who calls me a racist will have trouble finding evidence of it) Frankly, you didn't respond to most points that were made to you throughout this thread. Either you get into the debate or you don't.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,143
    nickice wrote:
    Please do show me where I condoned racist comments....

    It may not have been your intention, but your post earlier reads like you are saying that racist comments are just another form of "trash talking", and that you shouldn't crack down on it unless you are going to crack down on all other insults between riders.

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