JiffyGate....No Charges!!
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So it appears likely the testosterone was ordered by Freeman but that when others became aware he had had peds delivered to his place of work he was made to return them ?
I had understood that them being delivered by mistake meant the supplier had just sent them unsolicited due to an administrative mistake at their end - the claim being made now is that if there was a mistake it is Freeman's in ordering them to be delivered to BC ?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
good job Freeman lost his PC and is poorly.
Nothing to see here, move along please.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:CuthbertC wrote:You didn't answer the question, no surprise there.
Then, as you appear to have missed it, I'll answer again.
No one else has claimed they were order.
Thus making Lawson's allegations uncorroborated.
Kinda my point.
Now your turn to answer.
What did Il Corriere’s self-evident, uncorroborated "fact" turn out to be?
Lawton evidently has a source who has claimed that the GMC investigation has found evidence that the order was made from the National Cycling Centre. Lawton is publishing the source's allegation, it isn't 'Lawton's allegation'. The allegation has never been made previously, which makes it 'news'. Whether it is uncorroborated or not is irrelevant. I'm not going round and round in circles anymore on this point.
I believed that Froome hadn't undergone a pharmacokinetic study to be a fact at the the time, which I still stand by. I never considered anything else published by any newspaper to be a 'fact'. Neither of us knows for sure if Froome, his lawyers, wife, etc raised the possibility of a plea bargain. Just because the case hasn't been resolved doesn't mean Froome's side did not enquire about the possible terms of a plea bargain. Morgan wouldn't be doing his job properly if he hasn't made such an enquiry.0 -
Can we agree its just hot air? There's a suggestion that an unnamed source might have "evidence" (but not necessarily proof) that an unnamed person at British Cycling might have ordered the testosterone patches. Forgive me for wanting to see something a little bit more concrete before I consider it news.0
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BigMat wrote:Can we agree its just hot air? There's a suggestion that an unnamed source might have "evidence" (but not necessarily proof) that an unnamed person at British Cycling might have ordered the testosterone patches. Forgive me for wanting to see something a little bit more concrete before I consider it news.
Here here. In other walks of life, how many companies have had someone in procurement ordering stuff for themselves and putting it on the company account. If anything, this is probably what has happened. Where do athletes doing PEDs get their gear from? Probably a dodgy contact working for a legit company who can "cover" their activities in a mound of paperwork they control, without the powers that be getting wind of it.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
philthy3 wrote:BigMat wrote:Can we agree its just hot air? There's a suggestion that an unnamed source might have "evidence" (but not necessarily proof) that an unnamed person at British Cycling might have ordered the testosterone patches. Forgive me for wanting to see something a little bit more concrete before I consider it news.
Here here. In other walks of life, how many companies have had someone in procurement ordering stuff for themselves and putting it on the company account. If anything, this is probably what has happened. Where do athletes doing PEDs get their gear from? Probably a dodgy contact working for a legit company who can "cover" their activities in a mound of paperwork they control, without the powers that be getting wind of it.
Well we don't know who they were for but a Sky doctor ordering testosterone patches and then Sky/BC allowing people to think it was a mistake on the part of the supplier is not a good look, and of course they maintain that Brailsford didn't know, they didn't tell him Freeman was ordering PEDs ![Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
sounds like the MPs DCMS report is finally due to be published on Monday https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/201 ... sh-doping/0
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RichN95 wrote:So supposedly this is how you run a doping program.
Order PEDs from a legitimate seller with a paper trail
Have them sent to team headquarters
When they arrive have them sent straight back
Really?
Quite. Everyone assuming the patches (if ordered) were intended for riders.
Meanwhile, around the same time a senior (late 50s) member of staff is getting together with a much younger wife and a couple of years later has a child with her...0 -
I heard that mentioned elsewhere (maybe it was you under a different name)YorkshireRaw wrote:Meanwhile, around the same time a senior (late 50s) member of staff is getting together with a much younger wife and a couple of years later has a child with her...Twitter: @RichN950 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:philthy3 wrote:BigMat wrote:Can we agree its just hot air? There's a suggestion that an unnamed source might have "evidence" (but not necessarily proof) that an unnamed person at British Cycling might have ordered the testosterone patches. Forgive me for wanting to see something a little bit more concrete before I consider it news.
Here here. In other walks of life, how many companies have had someone in procurement ordering stuff for themselves and putting it on the company account. If anything, this is probably what has happened. Where do athletes doing PEDs get their gear from? Probably a dodgy contact working for a legit company who can "cover" their activities in a mound of paperwork they control, without the powers that be getting wind of it.
Well we don't know who they were for but a Sky doctor ordering testosterone patches and then Sky/BC allowing people to think it was a mistake on the part of the supplier is not a good look, and of course they maintain that Brailsford didn't know, they didn't tell him Freeman was ordering PEDs !
Hang on, Freeman told them it was an error by the supplier when they challenged him on the package. He produced the email from the supplier agreeing the package had been sent in error. Nowhere does it allude to BC/Sky trying to blame the supplier without reason. Freeman was working in his role for BC at the time and not Sky. Sky rightly responded to the information stating it was a BC matter and for them to handle.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Has he actually produced this email ? My understanding is the suppliers are now saying that in fact it wasn't an error on their part?
Also how do we know who Freeman was working for - BC have been criticised (as in in official reports not on social media) for blurred lines between them and Sky and who works for which. Freeman seems to be one of those staff who crossed between the two as and when required - if there is evidence to the contrary fine.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
RichN95 wrote:
I heard that mentioned elsewhere (maybe it was you under a different name)YorkshireRaw wrote:Meanwhile, around the same time a senior (late 50s) member of staff is getting together with a much younger wife and a couple of years later has a child with her...
no not me - also saw it suggested elsewhere...0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Has he actually produced this email ? My understanding is the suppliers are now saying that in fact it wasn't an error on their part?
Also how do we know who Freeman was working for - BC have been criticised (as in in official reports not on social media) for blurred lines between them and Sky and who works for which. Freeman seems to be one of those staff who crossed between the two as and when required - if there is evidence to the contrary fine.
Which suggests, that if anyone is dirty in this saga, the finger should be being pointed at Freeman instead of the anti-Sky brigade ala Matt Lawton, trying to drag them into it. Unless BC/Sky had 24hr surveillance on their staff to catch them in the act of doing something illegal, they cannot do any more than dispense with the services of the person involved and assist the inquiry in full once they catch them at it. All of which they have done.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
One of the side effects of testosterone replacement therapy is infertility afaik. You no longer have functioning sperm in your ejaculate. So while the quality of your erections improve, you will need to take a 3 month break from TRT to get your significant other pregnant.YorkshireRaw wrote:RichN95 wrote:So supposedly this is how you run a doping program.
Order PEDs from a legitimate seller with a paper trail
Have them sent to team headquarters
When they arrive have them sent straight back
Really?
Quite. Everyone assuming the patches (if ordered) were intended for riders.
Meanwhile, around the same time a senior (late 50s) member of staff is getting together with a much younger wife and a couple of years later has a child with her...PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
Mrm- yes, but was the child thing actually serious?
Testosterone doping is high risk - the isotope test is clear cut and has been available for years.
(Neat bit of science behind this test, incidentally).
AFAIK not routinely used because of cost, but it can be used on historic samples, so the risk is it would come out if suspicion fell on a rider.0 -
I have no idea. I have no inside sources if that was actually the case. Just made the point that while it certainly might make sense for someone of elder age to go on TRT if he has low testosterone levels, it doesn't make sense if an immediate pregnancy is wanted.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230
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Yorkshire Raw seems to have seen the same thing I did. Had he had the information independently it would have given it credence. But as he didn’t I’m going to dismiss it.M.R.M. wrote:I have no idea. I have no inside sources if that was actually the case. Just made the point that while it certainly might make sense for someone of elder age to go on TRT if he has low testosterone levels, it doesn't make sense if an immediate pregnancy is wanted.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Sunday papers .... cant wait0
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Vino'sGhost wrote:Sunday papers .... cant wait
Why?
Do you get a special rate for delivering them in the snow?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0
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HAHA the best bit of this thread is watching the more and more ridiculous theories.0
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Blazing Saddles wrote:Vino'sGhost wrote:Sunday papers .... cant wait
Why?
Do you get a special rate for delivering them in the snow?
Hat.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yorkshire Raw seems to have seen the same thing I did. Had he had the information independently it would have given it credence. But as he didn’t I’m going to dismiss it.M.R.M. wrote:I have no idea. I have no inside sources if that was actually the case. Just made the point that while it certainly might make sense for someone of elder age to go on TRT if he has low testosterone levels, it doesn't make sense if an immediate pregnancy is wanted.
from what's been said above it sounds like this theory maybe doesn't stand up then....
Although maybe it was the initial Test replacement that enabled the relationship with the younger spouse, and the lack of the subsequent doses (after they were returned to sender) that resulted in the conception... (I'm not actually being serious on any of this)0 -
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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DeVlaeminck wrote:
It's a very balanced and non sensational piece, which offers lots off new information. :roll:"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
Loving this paragraph
"Both are effectively accused of cheating. And if not cheating the actual rules in the strictest sense, then certainly the spirit of them. Of flouting their own commitment to be a team the sport could finally be proud of.
"Crossing the ethical line" is how the MPs put it."
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I heard Piers Morgan launch into a rant against Wiggins at the end of an interview with Roger Black discussing Roger Bannister of all things in which he said ‘we now know Wiggins was just a drug cheat’. I wondered what new information had come out of this report so was slightly surprised hearing on Radio 5 that it concluded there may have been unethical use of legitimately prescribed medication but that there was no suggestions of cheating. Nicky Campbell then interviewed Damian Green and he seemed even more keen to stress there was nothing to confirm cheating, when challenged on what unethical means he explained it was a line Brailsford described in his evidence where legitimate medication is used for non-medical gains. Green also said the committee’s concerns were regarding misuse of medicines for performance gains in sport as a whole and not necessarily by Sky or Wiggins.
So, there seemed to be nothing new come out and certainly nothing to back up Morgan’s rant which seems to have been a continuation of one of his many personal feuds and became a challenge to Wiggins to go on the show to explain himself (the timing of it on the back of an interview to celebrate the life of one of the all time sporting greats was unforgivable). Personally I hope Wiggins sues Morgan for libel, not necessarily as I think Wiggins has done no wrong but because Morgan is an egotistical c0ck, as there appears to be nothing in the report Morgan could use to back his allegations0 -
So, the CMS committee reach an agenda fitting, speculative conclusion, after finding that no rules were broken.
Have I got that about right?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I think the most inflammatory thing in there is a statement that Wiggins and a small group of riders trained separately from the rest of the team (not really a surprise) and they were all using loads of triamcinolone to 'lean down' for the race, and then Wiggins got the TUE to keep the benefits during the race. This from an anoymous email - regardless of truth it seems like quite the claim to make with no supporting evidence except one anonymous email.Blazing Saddles wrote:So, the CMS committee reach an agenda fitting, speculative conclusion, after finding that no rules were broken.
Have I got that about right?0
