JiffyGate....No Charges!!
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I don't accept anything. I haven't got a clue. Even Lawton seems unsure of his source. However, if you look back at the the threads when this started that was my original guess.TailWindHome wrote:RichN95 wrote:So even Lawton says that the worst that this could be (and he seems reluctant to put his name to it) is that Wiggins is guilty of a technicality due to the definition at the time of In and Out of Competition - a definition that no longer exists (he would not be guilty under today's rules). And even that infringement is something that they had informed the UCI they were going to do 'after the Dauphine'.
It's not exactly Operacion Puerto, is it? It's barely even Chaingate.
The TUE was for the 29th June, you say 'after the dauphine' some would say 'on the eve of the Tour'
I'm assuming at this stage you accept Wiggins was using triamcinolone out of competition, that it was triamcinolone in the jiffy bag and Sky have lied about it and thrown Freeman out of if, not under the bus.
(wish it was EPO - wouldn't have to spell check it every time :oops: )
The wording on the TUE application suggest that it was applied for prior to the Dauphine. What the date of the TUE notice means is also unclear. The date of the actual injection, the date of approval of the TUE, or both? Did Sky wait for the TUE to be approved or was it done before with the TUE serving to legitimise OOC use?Twitter: @RichN950 -
So he assumed it was a raid and with no evidence to back it up published it anyway, but its not really his fault cos how should he know?"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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RichN95 wrote:
I don't accept anything. I haven't got a clue. Even Lawton seems unsure of his source. However, if you look back at the the threads when this started that was my original guess.TailWindHome wrote:RichN95 wrote:So even Lawton says that the worst that this could be (and he seems reluctant to put his name to it) is that Wiggins is guilty of a technicality due to the definition at the time of In and Out of Competition - a definition that no longer exists (he would not be guilty under today's rules). And even that infringement is something that they had informed the UCI they were going to do 'after the Dauphine'.
It's not exactly Operacion Puerto, is it? It's barely even Chaingate.
The TUE was for the 29th June, you say 'after the dauphine' some would say 'on the eve of the Tour'
I'm assuming at this stage you accept Wiggins was using triamcinolone out of competition, that it was triamcinolone in the jiffy bag and Sky have lied about it and thrown Freeman out of if, not under the bus.
(wish it was EPO - wouldn't have to spell check it every time :oops: )
The wording on the TUE application suggest that it was applied for prior to the Dauphine. What the date of the TUE notice means is also unclear. The date of the actual injection, the date of approval of the TUE, or both? Did Sky wait for the TUE to be approved or was it done before with the TUE serving to legitimise OOC use?
In fairness the dates on the TUEs are all over the place.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I also notice that Lawton when asked about the best stories of his career says the Lizzie Armitstead missed tests and Malky Mackay (a Cardiff City manager who got sacked for racist tweets). It's quite nihilistic. There's no joy and inspiration there. Just sneering.Twitter: @RichN950
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That medical history counters the claims that injected steroids were unnecessary. He was already on inhaled and nasal steroids, a bronchodilator, an anti-histamine, and eyedrops, and had clinical documentation of allergy (RAST and nasal endoscopy). No gain from that bundle in someone who isn't allergic.
That still leaves the claims that (a) the medical history is all fake (but they weren't all done by Freeman) and (b) it's all an elaborate build up to getting the TUE.
My guess for the Jiffybag - it really was fluimucil, but not necessarily for use as a mucolytic. The active ingredient is N-acetylcysteine, an antioxidant that might be useful to boost recovery in time for the Tour. It isn't prohibited.0 -
RichN95 wrote:I also notice that Lawton when asked about the best stories of his career says the Lizzie Armitstead missed tests and Malky Mackay (a Cardiff City manager who got sacked for racist tweets). It's quite nihilistic. There's no joy and inspiration there. Just sneering.
well he's a sports journalist who writes for a newspaper, whats he supposed to say ?
whilst noting he encourages people to read his reports from Rio on the Olympics, and never says those were his "best stories", he says the Wiggo story is one of the most important in his career, but as important were the Malky (he wasnt sacked for tweets, he was expected to take up a new managers job and it was by publishing the details of a bunch of very racist text messages that were alleged to have been sent by him that nixed that job offer) and then Lizzies, for which he was awarded the Sports Journalism award at the 2016 Press Gazette British Journalism Awards, which are supposed to be the UK equivalent to the Pulitzer prize albeit havent been running for anywhere near as long.
so Id agree those are 3 pretty important stories for a sports journalist to have broken in their career to date,absolutely, would anyone else have broken the Lizzie story if he hadnt ? thats the question you have to ask.
thats one of the things that interview touches on, he was given a lead onto a potential story,and he can ignore it,forget about it, and end up looking like a chump a decade from now when someone writes a tell all book and points out the press were told but didnt do anything about it, see someone else take the scoop. Or he can see how far the story hangs up, the press corp havent ostracised him for doing his job,and arguably doing it reasonably well, I really dont get why as cycling fans we feel the need to criticise the messenger so much just because the things they document are uncomfortable to read0 -
It's tha way that SKY, Brailsford, Wiggins have handled it that's offputting. To be honest they sound like liars, which makes it easy to believe there's more to it.RichN95 wrote:
The thing is I don't find the 'worst case scenario' version of the jiffy bag particularly problematic. And I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in that.TailWindHome wrote:Accepting facts is one thing.
Believing an unsubstantiated version of events is entirely different0 -
very dissapointed
i want Froome to be 5th time TdF winner, well deserved also, everyone knows he is the moral winner of the 2012 TdF
but it will come eventually, theres no way Wiggins will stay TdF winner for to long0 -
EnacheV wrote:very dissapointed
i want Froome to be 5th time TdF winner, well deserved also, everyone knows he is the moral winner of the 2012 TdF
but it will come eventually, theres no way Wiggins will stay TdF winner for to long
You mean too long. How long is too long? Can't see it myself. Even his detractors don't think he's committed a verifiable doping offence, do they?0 -
awavey wrote:RichN95 wrote:well he's a sports journalist who writes for a newspaper, whats he supposed to say ?
No problem in journalism. For me its the milking of the story and the sensationalism that ensues - such as the 'raids' on British Cycling that are bounced into headlines that then get copied and repeated all over social media. And no matter how you try and seperate it, the fact he writes for the Mail that has such an anti cycling agenda an pretty much every level means the negativity becomes tiresome.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
Mad_Malx wrote:EnacheV wrote:very dissapointed
i want Froome to be 5th time TdF winner, well deserved also, everyone knows he is the moral winner of the 2012 TdF
So Froome's TUEs for 2013 and 2014 are ok, but not Wiggins' 2012?
Froome was on the record as being ill on both occasions if I am remembering correctly? Did he not withdraw from LBL because of one of them? Also, when Fancy Bears leaked, nothing new popped up for Froome.0 -
EnacheV wrote:very dissapointed
i want Froome to be 5th time TdF winner, well deserved also, everyone knows he is the moral winner of the 2012 TdF
but it will come eventually, theres no way Wiggins will stay TdF winner for to long
Whatever went on, it doesn't look good for you're dream scenario. Just wait till next Summer, I would expect Froome will get his fifth then. Will you be ok then, hun?2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
inseine wrote:
It's tha way that SKY, Brailsford, Wiggins have handled it that's offputting. To be honest they sound like liars, which makes it easy to believe there's more to it.RichN95 wrote:
The thing is I don't find the 'worst case scenario' version of the jiffy bag particularly problematic. And I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in that.TailWindHome wrote:Accepting facts is one thing.
Believing an unsubstantiated version of events is entirely different
I'm tempted to say the biggest casualty has been Brailsford's ability to handle press...but he never had that ability in the first place...
They should have kept Fran Millar in place though, she at least seem to be able to control him a little in the early years.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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I was thinking about some people's adherence to the absolutely literal letter of the law with regard to the old definition of 'In competition' being to midnight after the event rather than when the event is actually over.
Technically every F1 driver who took a swig from the champagne bottle on the podium after a Grand Prix committed a doping offence as alcohol is banned 'In Competition' in motor racing.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:I was thinking about some people's adherence to the absolutely literal letter of the law with regard to the old definition of 'In competition' being to midnight after the event rather than when the event is actually over.
Technically every F1 driver who took a swig from the champagne bottle on the podium after a Grand Prix committed a doping offence as alcohol is banned 'In Competition' in motor racing.
Yes, its also confusing to use 'ethics' and 'morals' over 'rules' too, as anyone would have to surely admit that taking a tue/recovery substance after a race is done and dusted, but prior to an arbitary time of day, is cheating nobody. Do these things cut both ways? I'm not sure ...
2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
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That's all been available for ages. Whoever it is they don't play chess - "unwitting porn"jimmythecuckoo wrote:http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/culture-media-and-sport-committee/combatting-doping-in-sport/written/69004.html
Interesting stuff put out there by INRGTwitter: @RichN950 -
jimmythecuckoo wrote:http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/culture-media-and-sport-committee/combatting-doping-in-sport/written/69004.html
Interesting stuff put out there by INRG
The trouble is that at the time that was submitted, anyone who had been following the case could have written that. There's nothing in there of any value that's actually making a specific claim. If that's the sum total of input then its not much to go on.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
Just as someone could tell a Daily Mail reporter that the 'mystery package' definitely contained trimathingy immediately after the fancy bears hack, but had not been able to say that before when e-mailing another journalistCarbonClem wrote:jimmythecuckoo wrote:http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/culture-media-and-sport-committee/combatting-doping-in-sport/written/69004.html
Interesting stuff put out there by INRG
The trouble is that at the time that was submitted, anyone who had been following the case could have written that. There's nothing in there of any value that's actually making a specific claim. If that's the sum total of input then its not much to go on.
The truth is probably that no-one actually knows or can remember. It's just an innocuous package from five years previous. They weren't carrying a kilo of H through Bangkok airport - that you would remember.Twitter: @RichN950 -
So that's tiernan-locke or varnish then."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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Tiernan-Locke joined sky after Cav left didn't he?_____________________
I'm part of the association!0 -
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Lol... ach Froome's box office for the journos at the moment.
Anyone else see Nick Harris' tweet asking for info about doping at the Ghent Six in 1999. Seemed a bit bizarre. Only connection I could make was that Hayles and Wiggins (aged 19) rode it, coming last.0 -
Maybe the public are clamouring for an in-depth investigation into Andreas Kappes or Adriano Baffi?dish_dash wrote:Lol... ach Froome's box office for the journos at the moment.
Anyone else see Nick Harris' tweet asking for info about doping at the Ghent Six in 1999. Seemed a bit bizarre. Only connection I could make was that Hayles and Wiggins (aged 19) rode it, coming last.
I image they're scraping the bottom of the Wiggins barrel (doping at a 90s Six would hardly be news). Next it will be an investigation into the kids races at Herne Hill.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Those little sods are so well coached, it's criminal. Being bullied on the banking by a 12 year old who doesn't care if he crashes and misses school the next day is quite something to experience.RichN95 wrote:I image they're scraping the bottom of the Wiggins barrel (doping at a 90s Six would hardly be news). Next it will be an investigation into the kids races at Herne Hill.0
