JiffyGate....No Charges!!

ddraver

CarbonClem wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

This is key for me. You can surely get a goat anywhere, even on a Sunday evening in a small Swiss town. Why would you go to the bother of having your own goat taken out to you, surely any old goat would do?

Assuming it WAS a goat. And not a Llama or something.

This bit (The potential controversy about Flumicil bit, not the goat bit) is the most ridiculous part for me.

It is clear that there are rules about strict liability hence why sports teams use very specific suppliers for supplements and such like. Even keeping samples of each batch to test against were an athlete to get popped. The thought that a team with the ready cash available like sky would risk a random box of medicine from a random pharmacy is ridiculous.

In a parallel universe there is a Vino's Ghost telling us all that "contaminated flumucil" is a ridiculous excuse and Wiggins was obviously using a masking agent for xxx....

tailwindhome

ddraver wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

This is key for me. You can surely get a goat anywhere, even on a Sunday evening in a small Swiss town. Why would you go to the bother of having your own goat taken out to you, surely any old goat would do?

Assuming it WAS a goat. And not a Llama or something.

This bit (The potential controversy about Flumicil bit, not the goat bit) is the most ridiculous part for me.

It is clear that there are rules about strict liability hence why sports teams use very specific suppliers for supplements and such like. Even keeping samples of each batch to test against were an athlete to get popped. The thought that a team with the ready cash available like sky would risk a random box of medicine from a random pharmacy is ridiculous.

In a parallel universe there is a Vino's Ghost telling us all that "contaminated flumucil" is a ridiculous excuse and Wiggins was obviously using a masking agent for xxx....

So Sky spend money couriering medicines across Europe due to concerns of random medicines from random pharmacies while at the same time not keeping adequate records of their own pharmaceuticals and have testosterone arrive by accident.

Ok.

ddraver

Yup, ok

Those are three totally different items

sherer

Vino'sGhost wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

This is key for me. You can surely get a goat anywhere, even on a Sunday evening in a small Swiss town. Why would you go to the bother of having your own goat taken out to you, surely any old goat would do?

Assuming it WAS a goat. And not a Llama or something.

Well if it were a Llama i can understand the cuffufle. Llama is def on the banned list whereas goats are fine out of competition and he'd technically just finished the competition so a bit of goat action is fine.

what if it wasn't a normal goat. it could have been a genetically modified goat. We need to see receipts and bank statements to check what he's been purchasing

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Guilt by association is very much en vogue among social media judiciary these days
In which case......



:P

I've just looked at this poster again. Kevin Spacey! Is nothing off limits to his wandering hands? Not even goats.

He sealed the posting deal for me.

Anyhow to answer your tongue in cheek question; apparently not, according to the latest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42009596

Interesting to compare the acting/media fraternity to BC/Sky as to what happens next, when a single allegation is made...................

Vino'sGhost

TailWindHome wrote:

ddraver wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

This is key for me. You can surely get a goat anywhere, even on a Sunday evening in a small Swiss town. Why would you go to the bother of having your own goat taken out to you, surely any old goat would do?

Assuming it WAS a goat. And not a Llama or something.

This bit (The potential controversy about Flumicil bit, not the goat bit) is the most ridiculous part for me.

It is clear that there are rules about strict liability hence why sports teams use very specific suppliers for supplements and such like. Even keeping samples of each batch to test against were an athlete to get popped. The thought that a team with the ready cash available like sky would risk a random box of medicine from a random pharmacy is ridiculous.

In a parallel universe there is a Vino's Ghost telling us all that "contaminated flumucil" is a ridiculous excuse and Wiggins was obviously using a masking agent for xxx....

So Sky spend money couriering medicines across Europe due to concerns of random medicines from random pharmacies while at the same time not keeping adequate records of their own pharmaceuticals and have testosterone arrive by accident.

Ok.

my thoughts exactly.

tim000

Vino'sGhost wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

ddraver wrote:

CarbonClem wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

This is key for me. You can surely get a goat anywhere, even on a Sunday evening in a small Swiss town. Why would you go to the bother of having your own goat taken out to you, surely any old goat would do?

Assuming it WAS a goat. And not a Llama or something.

This bit (The potential controversy about Flumicil bit, not the goat bit) is the most ridiculous part for me.

It is clear that there are rules about strict liability hence why sports teams use very specific suppliers for supplements and such like. Even keeping samples of each batch to test against were an athlete to get popped. The thought that a team with the ready cash available like sky would risk a random box of medicine from a random pharmacy is ridiculous.

In a parallel universe there is a Vino's Ghost telling us all that "contaminated flumucil" is a ridiculous excuse and Wiggins was obviously using a masking agent for xxx....

So Sky spend money couriering medicines across Europe due to concerns of random medicines from random pharmacies while at the same time not keeping adequate records of their own pharmaceuticals and have testosterone arrive by accident.

Ok.

my thoughts exactly.

no , they gave it to someone who was flying out anyway .

RichN95.

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

gsk82

Is it just convenience that makes readers ignore that the doctor said he couldn't just get it where they were. He said he isn't licenced to prescribe in France and it's not available in the form he administers it in (a nebulizer) in Switzerland.

ddraver

gsk82 wrote:

Is it just convenience that makes readers ignore that the doctor said he couldn't just get it where they were. He said he isn't licenced to prescribe in France and it's not available in the form he administers it in (a nebulizer) in Switzerland.

I confess I hadn't heard that angle but they're fair points...

A lot of people were dubious about it because you can buy it OTC from Pharmacies, usually it's better displayed than the Ibuprofen. I'm gonna try some when I get a cold this season...

m.r.m.

RichN95 wrote:

^^^ Based on a book written by Jon Ronson who I am going to see this evening

Who is bringing the goats?

mr_goo

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

mamba80

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

'Goo is spot on, to most people (if they ve even heard of him, several at work had nt) Wiggins is now a minor celeb, has there been a media scrum on his front lawn? unlikely.

trivial_poursuivant

mamba80 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

'Goo is spot on, to most people (if they ve even heard of him, several at work had nt) Wiggins is now a minor celeb, has there been a media scrum on his front lawn? unlikely.

Not entirely fair. It’s still his family being harassed. All over allegations that are unproven. Sure he isn’t a refugee in a war torn country (which if they were they wouldn’t actually be refugees at that point but I digress) it’s still not a nice thing to have hanging over you. It’s like your suggesting unless you’re a victim of a disaster or war you are not allowed to feel aggrieved at unwarranted treatment from the press. Let’s say, since we have no evidence to the contrary, he is utterly innocent of anything. How fair is it to have all your entire careers achievements questioned after all the work, pain and sacrifice you must have made to get there. TdF winners don’t just turn up and win Clean or otherwise.

m.r.m.

Media harassment is like a (minor) heart attack. It's only minor when it happens to someone else.

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

carbonclem

As has been said, its all relative, but imagine Wiggins ... wins Gold in Rio and looks forward to a good year of basking in retirement limelight and adoration followed by a life of mincing about being Chris Hoy but cooler and then bam, this comes along and you are under a cloud and you know that general public have just read the headlines and think 'cheat' and any learned cycling fans are thinking (at best) 'Hmmmm' and whilst the tv and advertising stuff has been there, he's clearly not on a comfortable position. Maybe not a living hell, but pretty damn crap Id say.

tailwindhome

tim000 wrote:

no , they gave it to someone who was flying out anyway .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017 ... -fall-guy/



Why was he flying out anyway?
He didn't mention it to the committee.

mr_goo

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

'Goo is spot on, to most people (if they ve even heard of him, several at work had nt) Wiggins is now a minor celeb, has there been a media scrum on his front lawn? unlikely.

Not entirely fair. It’s still his family being harassed. All over allegations that are unproven. Sure he isn’t a refugee in a war torn country (which if they were they wouldn’t actually be refugees at that point but I digress) it’s still not a nice thing to have hanging over you. It’s like your suggesting unless you’re a victim of a disaster or war you are not allowed to feel aggrieved at unwarranted treatment from the press. Let’s say, since we have no evidence to the contrary, he is utterly innocent of anything. How fair is it to have all your entire careers achievements questioned after all the work, pain and sacrifice you must have made to get there. TdF winners don’t just turn up and win Clean or otherwise.

Thing is, Wiggins' "Did he, didn't he?" Has hardly been front page news. It was highlighted. Questions have been asked and clearly cannot be answered. But I'd say the story hasn't exactly gripped the nation and piqued the interests of 60 million British citizens. Just those in the sport, some journalists and some cycling enthusiasts. My original post just points out that Wiggins has clearly over exagerated his situation compared to millions/billions of others..... who can't drive off in a free Skoda.

trivial_poursuivant

Mr Goo wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

'Goo is spot on, to most people (if they ve even heard of him, several at work had nt) Wiggins is now a minor celeb, has there been a media scrum on his front lawn? unlikely.

Not entirely fair. It’s still his family being harassed. All over allegations that are unproven. Sure he isn’t a refugee in a war torn country (which if they were they wouldn’t actually be refugees at that point but I digress) it’s still not a nice thing to have hanging over you. It’s like your suggesting unless you’re a victim of a disaster or war you are not allowed to feel aggrieved at unwarranted treatment from the press. Let’s say, since we have no evidence to the contrary, he is utterly innocent of anything. How fair is it to have all your entire careers achievements questioned after all the work, pain and sacrifice you must have made to get there. TdF winners don’t just turn up and win Clean or otherwise.

Thing is, Wiggins' "Did he, didn't he?" Has hardly been front page news. It was highlighted. Questions have been asked and clearly cannot be answered. But I'd say the story hasn't exactly gripped the nation and piqued the interests of 60 million British citizens. Just those in the sport, some journalists and some cycling enthusiasts. My original post just points out that Wiggins has clearly over exagerated his situation compared to millions/billions of others..... who can't drive off in a free Skoda.

The way you wrote your original post, is as though he had absolutely no reason to feel aggrieved. Just because it may not of been front page news (considering the current political climate, that’s understandable) . How has he over exaggerated? He said his life had been a living hell. Someone could say the same thing about anything that caused prolonged unwanted stress. No need to get hung up on the semantics of his words. He didn’t say it’s like he had been living in a war zone with no food, water or medical care. He didn’t compare it to something much more harrowing. Maybe you should not take everyone’s words so literal. They are just common every day expressions.

But above it all. He has been cleared of any wrong-doing. Even if the way Sky went about their business, he isn’t a doctor, team principal or a pharmacist. How he got Given the decongestant is not something he personally cannot be made to answer for. He is a cyclist. He rides his bike and leaves the other stuff to the respective professionals in each area.

Pross

Mr Goo wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Wiggins claims his life has been "a living hell" during investigations.
Wiggins you tw4t I'll tell you what a living hell is. Being a refugee in a war torn country, being subjected to ethnic cleansing, being diagnosed with an incurable disease or condition. Those are examples of a living hell. Its NOT being investigated because you may or may not have doped and cheated your way to victory for which you earnt alot of money. Dick.

Rant over.

Have you ever lived with gutter journos hanging around your house harassing you and your family and constantly having people belittling everything you have worked hard to achieve on the basis of no evidence?

The media hound people on the basis of 'news' they create and fertilise themselves and as we've seen recently with a politician it can become too much to take. Maybe we should all camp outside your house asking questions based on views you've expressed in Cake Stop in the past and maybe you'll understand.

If you had any common sense you would know that what Wiggins said was totally exaggerated. Having a few hacks doorstep you as a celebrity goes with the territory.
Gaia Pope's father looked like he was in a living hell on this evening's news.

'Goo is spot on, to most people (if they ve even heard of him, several at work had nt) Wiggins is now a minor celeb, has there been a media scrum on his front lawn? unlikely.

Not entirely fair. It’s still his family being harassed. All over allegations that are unproven. Sure he isn’t a refugee in a war torn country (which if they were they wouldn’t actually be refugees at that point but I digress) it’s still not a nice thing to have hanging over you. It’s like your suggesting unless you’re a victim of a disaster or war you are not allowed to feel aggrieved at unwarranted treatment from the press. Let’s say, since we have no evidence to the contrary, he is utterly innocent of anything. How fair is it to have all your entire careers achievements questioned after all the work, pain and sacrifice you must have made to get there. TdF winners don’t just turn up and win Clean or otherwise.

Thing is, Wiggins' "Did he, didn't he?" Has hardly been front page news. It was highlighted. Questions have been asked and clearly cannot be answered. But I'd say the story hasn't exactly gripped the nation and piqued the interests of 60 million British citizens. Just those in the sport, some journalists and some cycling enthusiasts. My original post just points out that Wiggins has clearly over exagerated his situation compared to millions/billions of others..... who can't drive off in a free Skoda.

Not many people had heard of Carl Sergeant but allegations made against him and raised in the media were enough for him to hang himself. Maybe he should have just laughed it all off as it was hardly a living hell, just a few reports on the local news. It's amazing how trivial things are when it's someone else who has to deal with them.

Pross

TailWindHome wrote:

Pross wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

And theres certainly a difference between innocent and lack of evidence to confirm guilt. Just ask Armstrong.

Of course, but you can't go down the route of continuing to assume guilt because someone hasn't been proven innocent. It's a very dangerous route to take because proving innocence can be impossible hence my reference to witch hunts of days gone by. After all, type:epyt still hasn't produced anything to show they're innocent of the mock accusations.

Did type:epyt have goats *accidentally* delivered to his house?

Did he ask for and be granted permission to interfere with goats on 3 occasions?

Was a mystery animal crate taken across several borders to be delivered to him with no record kept of what animal was in said crate and why?

Does he have colleagues with a history of interfering with goats and providing others with goats?

Maybe he had his goat tested by a vet and knew it was clean and didn't want to risk an untested foreign goat? Who knows, he's someone who interferes with goats so we're unlikely to get the truth are we?

mr_goo

Perhaps in the context of Wiggins' cosy millionaire sportsman lifestyle he thought he was in a living hell. But in the perspective of bigger things it pales into insignificance. And that is my point. As a 'public face' , 'celebrity ' , he should perhaps choose his wording more carefully.

Pross

Ah, the chip is still firmly on your shoulder then.

ddraver

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

It would be if that's what they were asking but they re not is it. They are asking you to believe that someone got lazy with their backups and then their laptop got knicked. That is entirely possible. Sad to say it's a mistake I've made before now.

You re playing fast and loose with the facts a bit here...

joe2008

ddraver wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

It would be if that's what they were asking but they re not is it. They are asking you to believe that someone got lazy with their backups and then their laptop got knicked. That is entirely possible. Sad to say it's a mistake I've made before now.

You re playing fast and loose with the facts a bit here...

...then their laptop got knicked in Greece, three years later.

DeVlaeminck

Pross wrote:

Not many people had heard of Carl Sergeant but allegations made against him and raised in the media were enough for him to hang himself. Maybe he should have just laughed it all off as it was hardly a living hell, just a few reports on the local news. It's amazing how trivial things are when it's someone else who has to deal with them.

We don't know why he hung himself.

ddraver

joe2008 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

It would be if that's what they were asking but they re not is it. They are asking you to believe that someone got lazy with their backups and then their laptop got knicked. That is entirely possible. Sad to say it's a mistake I've made before now.

You re playing fast and loose with the facts a bit here...

...then their laptop got knicked in Greece, three years later.

That's literally what I said, thanks.

May we expect another sarky comment?

joe2008

ddraver wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

It would be if that's what they were asking but they re not is it. They are asking you to believe that someone got lazy with their backups and then their laptop got knicked. That is entirely possible. Sad to say it's a mistake I've made before now.

You re playing fast and loose with the facts a bit here...

...then their laptop got knicked in Greece, three years later.

That's literally what I said, thanks.

May we expect another sarky comment?

Well, not literally; no mention of Greece, or three years later.

blazing_saddles

joe2008 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The couriering isn't at all suspect to me. Teams do this all the time with all sorts of things.

Agreed

It's just being wilfully gullible however to believe that you can open the cupboard at British Cycling where the medicines are kept, take out whatever you want and there's no record kept.

It would be if that's what they were asking but they re not is it. They are asking you to believe that someone got lazy with their backups and then their laptop got knicked. That is entirely possible. Sad to say it's a mistake I've made before now.

You re playing fast and loose with the facts a bit here...

...then their laptop got knicked in Greece, three years later.

That's literally what I said, thanks.

May we expect another sarky comment?

Well, not literally; no mention of Greece, or three years later.

This matters why, exactly?