Maybe we are not doomed after all
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If you simply must have some combustion, just go the whole 19th century tech hog and buy a traction engine.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure about the eco credentials hydrogen cells. A hydrogen fuelled ICE would be even better then it won't feel like you're driving a sophisticated milk float.pinno said:Hyundai are now committed to Hydrogen cell propelled cars.
Cleaner and less resource demanding than EV?
Wikipedia reckons HICEV still produce NOX emissions and are most efficient pulling heavy loads, so more 🚜 than 🏎️.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I’ll bow to your greater knowledge on the finer details for sure but I don’t think nonsense is accurate.TheBigBean said:
This is nonsense.morstar said:The risk with hydrogen is blue hydrogen.
Blue hydrogen is more fossil fuel intensive than simply using fossil fuels directly.
It only exists as a hedge for fossil fuel companies if hydrogen does take off. It should not be supported in any way shape or form but they do have lobbying groups (unsurprisingly).
Fossil fuel companies are pushing it to keep a piece of the pie. Why on earth should we invest in a fuel that takes more fossil fuel to generate than it produces itself?0 -
(In a non confrontational manner - personally)TheBigBean said:
This is nonsense.morstar said:The risk with hydrogen is blue hydrogen.
Blue hydrogen is more fossil fuel intensive than simply using fossil fuels directly.
It only exists as a hedge for fossil fuel companies if hydrogen does take off. It should not be supported in any way shape or form but they do have lobbying groups (unsurprisingly).
Care to qualify that?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
There is more than one way to make it. I posted a graph upthread that showed the variety of ways and their impact.morstar said:
I’ll bow to your greater knowledge on the finer details for sure but I don’t think nonsense is accurate.TheBigBean said:
This is nonsense.morstar said:The risk with hydrogen is blue hydrogen.
Blue hydrogen is more fossil fuel intensive than simply using fossil fuels directly.
It only exists as a hedge for fossil fuel companies if hydrogen does take off. It should not be supported in any way shape or form but they do have lobbying groups (unsurprisingly).
Fossil fuel companies are pushing it to keep a piece of the pie. Why on earth should we invest in a fuel that takes more fossil fuel to generate than it produces itself?
At the moment, an electric car runs on grid electricity which relies on fossil fuels. You could argue that electric cars are not really any greener than normal cars, but it misses the point that there are two stages to this - switch to electric and decarbonise the grid.
There are also two stages to replacing fossil fuels in hydrogen powered cards. Firstly create a market place, one where you can buy a car and even some hydrogen to power it. Secondly, decarbonise the hydrogen.
The end goal would be the equivalent of LNG, but with green hydrogen shipped in from places that can make it cheaply.
No one sensible is trying to promote grey hydrogen as a long term solution. Some people do think they can make hydrogen from fossil fuels and capture and store the carbon. If they can do this, why not do it? If it doesn't work then it won't be widely used.
And even if there is someone in some marketing department trying to promote grey hydrogen, no one is taking them seriously.
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Oh I dunno - Toyota and Yamaha have produced a 455bhp hydrogen powered V8 engine for performance cars.rjsterry said:
If you simply must have some combustion, just go the whole 19th century tech hog and buy a traction engine.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure about the eco credentials hydrogen cells. A hydrogen fuelled ICE would be even better then it won't feel like you're driving a sophisticated milk float.pinno said:Hyundai are now committed to Hydrogen cell propelled cars.
Cleaner and less resource demanding than EV?
Wikipedia reckons HICEV still produce NOX emissions and are most efficient pulling heavy loads, so more 🚜 than 🏎️.
https://toyotaofpuyallup.com/blog/toyota-teaming-up-on-a-hydrogen-powered-v8/
That's the sort of thing we want."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
To follow on from BB’s comment, our local buses are EVs with all the advertising proudly proclaiming their green credentials. I was told recently that the bus depot doesn’t have enough juice to recharge them from the grid so they are using diesel generators. Don’t know if it’s true but it came from someone who should know.0
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I think that was invented in Scotland, if I remember correctly.pinno said:0 -
https://youtu.be/cOWjwwKSR78A group of local governments announced Thursday it’s signed a 25-year, $775-million contract to buy power from what would be the world’s largest compressed-air energy storage project. The innovative technology could help California — and other states and nations — transition from planet-warming fossil fuels to renewable energy, without causing blackouts.https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2023-01-12/this-giant-underground-battery-is-a-1-b
“We need a diverse fleet of resources. This new technology is a critical component of that,” said Robert Shaw, chief operating officer at Central Coast Community Energy, which signed the 25-year contract. “That’s how we get to 100% renewables.”
https://www.hydrostor.ca
Interesting idea.0 -
The technology is not new, but doing it at that scale is.0
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I keep thinking of all the great projects which could have been started with the half a trillion quid spent on Covid in various unaccountable ways.0
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I do not understand that comment.TheBigBean said:The technology is not new, but doing it at that scale is.
These storage schemes have a capacity considerably smaller than our Dinorwig pump storage facility.
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It uses compressed air not water.lesfirth said:
I do not understand that comment.TheBigBean said:The technology is not new, but doing it at that scale is.
These storage schemes have a capacity considerably smaller than our Dinorwig pump storage facility.0 -
Ok I missed "water " out of my description of the Dinorwig facility .I was using that to indicate some indication of the size of these things. They do not have much "scale".TheBigBean said:
It uses compressed air not water.lesfirth said:
I do not understand that comment.TheBigBean said:The technology is not new, but doing it at that scale is.
These storage schemes have a capacity considerably smaller than our Dinorwig pump storage facility.0 -
I have drunk tea from a cup before, but never from something on the scale of a bucket. Still, I have swum in an ocean, so drinking tea from a bucket will be trivial.0
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are you channelling your inner Cantona?TheBigBean said:I have drunk tea from a cup before, but never from something on the scale of a bucket. Still, I have swum in an ocean, so drinking tea from a bucket will be trivial.
bizarrely (I think) I understand your point0 -
It probably sounds unbelievable, but occasionally I lose my will to argue.surrey_commuter said:
are you channelling your inner Cantona?TheBigBean said:I have drunk tea from a cup before, but never from something on the scale of a bucket. Still, I have swum in an ocean, so drinking tea from a bucket will be trivial.
bizarrely (I think) I understand your point0 -
I feel the same sometimes with people's agnosticism towards greatness. The fact that I know I'm right consoles me though.1
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The developments in North Sea wind are 100x better for the world than anything Musk has done.focuszing723 said:I feel the same sometimes with people's agnosticism towards greatness. The fact that I know I'm right consoles me though.
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Don't argue with my consoling rightness.0
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Let me just check to make sure...0
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Yep, yep, I'm right.0
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Germany has begun shutting down its three remaining nuclear power plants as part of a long-planned transition towards renewable energy.https://news.sky.com/story/germany-shuts-down
The shutdown of the Emsland, Neckarwestheim II and Isar II reactors, which was agreed upon more than a decade ago, has proved divisive.
Other industrialised countries - such as the UK, US, Japan, China and France - are counting on nuclear energy to replace fossil fuels.
Difficult to have predicted Russia/Ukraine, but not the best of timing.0 -
Meh lots of people thought it was a silly decision 10 years ago.0
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Blimey, that's a good find then. 2,69bn tonnes of Polyhalite.
It's great to hear a bit of good UK news.0 -
Polyhalite is an evaporite mineral, a hydrated sulfate of potassium, calcium and magnesium with formula: K2Ca2Mg(SO4)4·2H2O. Polyhalite crystallizes in the triclinic system, although crystals are very rare. The normal habit is massive to fibrous. It is typically colorless, white to gray, although it may be brick red due to iron oxide inclusions. It has a Mohs hardness of 3.5 and a specific gravity of 2.8. It is used as a fertilizer.
Polyhalite was first described in 1818 for specimens from its type locality in Salzburg, Austria.[2] It occurs in sedimentary marine evaporites and is a major potassium ore mineral in the Carlsbad deposits of New Mexico. It is also present as a 2–3% contaminant of Himalayan salt. The only deposit currently being mined lies under North Yorkshire, extending under the adjacent North Sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhalite
I knew about potash being a good fertilizer.0 -
If the economy improves as a result, they'll claim it's because we left the EU.focuszing723 said:Blimey, that's a good find then. 2,69bn tonnes of Polyhalite.
It's great to hear a bit of good UK news.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Let's just forget about that and just take it as good news.1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dIkWYUAxQ
