Maybe we are not doomed after all
Comments
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10% of the entire UK for the day is quite a lot. Not sure this is making the point you hope.rjsterry said:
Return flight to NY is ≈ 1.7t CO2. UK total emissions per person per year is ≈ 5t. The Glasgow COP conference had 120 world leaders and about 40,000 attendees in total. Obviously a lot will have been more local, but let's say they all flew from NY: 68,000t emitted. Meanwhile back at home the UK is emitting ≈ 920,000t a day. So the flights for the entire conference arefocuszing723 said:
New York? Did you read it? Also, how many people live in a house? and your estimates are off for a a single person on a flight, christ!rjsterry said:
We literally answered this question yesterday. The carbon emissions from short haul return flight is ≈ 5% of the annual emissions for a typical house. Also Zoom is definitely inferior to a face to face meeting.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan is flying to New York for four days to attend a series of events including an international climate conference.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66820972
The mayor of London is expected to speak at the United Nations climate ambition summit on Wednesday.
He will also use the visit to meet representatives from US businesses and investors looking at London.
His trip takes place three weeks after the controversial expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez).
Can't they zoom call or similar to do this? It's a conference on "CLIMATE CHANGE" for fook sake.
Am I wrong on this? This sort of $h1t has to stop, it has to be for everyone. What's a persons personal pollution/environmental damage footprint?
United Nations climate ambition summit
Lol, want a make a difference, cancel it.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Would you say a home to live in is a necessity? Like I said if they all stayed at home it would reduce the environmental impact and be an example.rjsterry said:
Return flight to NY is ≈ 1.7t CO2. UK total emissions per person per year is ≈ 5t. The Glasgow COP conference had 120 world leaders and about 40,000 attendees in total. Obviously a lot will have been more local, but let's say they all flew from NY: 68,000t emitted. Meanwhile back at home the UK is emitting ≈ 920,000t a day. So the flights for the entire conference arefocuszing723 said:
New York? Did you read it? Also, how many people live in a house? and your estimates are off for a a single person on a flight, christ!rjsterry said:
We literally answered this question yesterday. The carbon emissions from short haul return flight is ≈ 5% of the annual emissions for a typical house. Also Zoom is definitely inferior to a face to face meeting.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan is flying to New York for four days to attend a series of events including an international climate conference.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66820972
The mayor of London is expected to speak at the United Nations climate ambition summit on Wednesday.
He will also use the visit to meet representatives from US businesses and investors looking at London.
His trip takes place three weeks after the controversial expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez).
Can't they zoom call or similar to do this? It's a conference on "CLIMATE CHANGE" for fook sake.
Am I wrong on this? This sort of $h1t has to stop, it has to be for everyone. What's a persons personal pollution/environmental damage footprint?
United Nations climate ambition summit
Lol, want a make a difference, cancel it.
Again, lead by example!0 -
Yep, let the technology/infrastructure dictate the change. Musk/Tesla has proved it's viable.ugo.santalucia said:I think they are coming to the realisation that the charging network will not be ready by 2030, the electricity needed will not be available by 2030 and people will not fork out 50 grand for a new electric boiler + a new EV… hence they have no choice but to kick the can down the road. A good decision. On a global scale it would have made very little difference anyway.
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This was confirmed last month when China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) released a road map for future transport. Last year over 28 million cars were sold in China, marking another year of double-digit growth and leaving the US’s sales of 17.5m in its wake. By 2025 MIIT is predicting that China’s sales will hit 35m, and crucially it has suggested that it wants 20% of that total to be made up of so-called New Energy Vehicles (NEVs). That equates to sales of around 7m electric cars, which represents quite a shift given that fewer than 2m are estimated to have been sold globally last year (the vagaries of reporting between markets make exact figures hard to determine).https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/insight-why-demand-china-spurring-growth-electric-car-sales
Interestingly China are getting there without the BS, it's backed with technology and production.0 -
I think you're being generous there. It's more likely they've decided, on the basis of the Uxbridge result, to appeal for votes from those that demand the right to continue using ICE vehicles as it is their 'right'. It's yet another attempt at populist vote winning and desperation.ugo.santalucia said:I think they are coming to the realisation that the charging network will not be ready by 2030, the electricity needed will not be available by 2030 and people will not fork out 50 grand for a new electric boiler + a new EV… hence they have no choice but to kick the can down the road. A good decision. On a global scale it would have made very little difference anyway.
The 'global scale' thing is just a red herring. All any country can do is try to affect the things it has control of and to influence others to do the same (not that we have much influence any more). It's the same on a personal level, all you can do is change the things you control and try to get the politicians to do the same at a national level. If everyone hangs around waiting for others to go first then nothing gets done and it will be too late.0 -
'Lead by example' is just an excuse and a comfort blanket for people who don't want to change.focuszing723 said:
Would you say a home to live in is a necessity? Like I said if they all stayed at home it would reduce the environmental impact and be an example.rjsterry said:
Return flight to NY is ≈ 1.7t CO2. UK total emissions per person per year is ≈ 5t. The Glasgow COP conference had 120 world leaders and about 40,000 attendees in total. Obviously a lot will have been more local, but let's say they all flew from NY: 68,000t emitted. Meanwhile back at home the UK is emitting ≈ 920,000t a day. So the flights for the entire conference arefocuszing723 said:
New York? Did you read it? Also, how many people live in a house? and your estimates are off for a a single person on a flight, christ!rjsterry said:
We literally answered this question yesterday. The carbon emissions from short haul return flight is ≈ 5% of the annual emissions for a typical house. Also Zoom is definitely inferior to a face to face meeting.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan is flying to New York for four days to attend a series of events including an international climate conference.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66820972
The mayor of London is expected to speak at the United Nations climate ambition summit on Wednesday.
He will also use the visit to meet representatives from US businesses and investors looking at London.
His trip takes place three weeks after the controversial expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez).
Can't they zoom call or similar to do this? It's a conference on "CLIMATE CHANGE" for fook sake.
Am I wrong on this? This sort of $h1t has to stop, it has to be for everyone. What's a persons personal pollution/environmental damage footprint?
United Nations climate ambition summit
Lol, want a make a difference, cancel it.
Again, lead by example!
Also, if you are taking your lead from Prince Harry you need to have a word with yourself.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Which electric car do you have and how is your heat pump going?rjsterry said:
'Lead by example' is just an excuse and a comfort blanket for people who don't want to change.focuszing723 said:
Would you say a home to live in is a necessity? Like I said if they all stayed at home it would reduce the environmental impact and be an example.rjsterry said:
Return flight to NY is ≈ 1.7t CO2. UK total emissions per person per year is ≈ 5t. The Glasgow COP conference had 120 world leaders and about 40,000 attendees in total. Obviously a lot will have been more local, but let's say they all flew from NY: 68,000t emitted. Meanwhile back at home the UK is emitting ≈ 920,000t a day. So the flights for the entire conference arefocuszing723 said:
New York? Did you read it? Also, how many people live in a house? and your estimates are off for a a single person on a flight, christ!rjsterry said:
We literally answered this question yesterday. The carbon emissions from short haul return flight is ≈ 5% of the annual emissions for a typical house. Also Zoom is definitely inferior to a face to face meeting.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan is flying to New York for four days to attend a series of events including an international climate conference.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66820972
The mayor of London is expected to speak at the United Nations climate ambition summit on Wednesday.
He will also use the visit to meet representatives from US businesses and investors looking at London.
His trip takes place three weeks after the controversial expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez).
Can't they zoom call or similar to do this? It's a conference on "CLIMATE CHANGE" for fook sake.
Am I wrong on this? This sort of $h1t has to stop, it has to be for everyone. What's a persons personal pollution/environmental damage footprint?
United Nations climate ambition summit
Lol, want a make a difference, cancel it.
Again, lead by example!
Also, if you are taking your lead from Prince Harry you need to have a word with yourself.0 -
The ‘Green economy’ represents a real chance for this country to deliver the high skilled, high wage economy promised by Brexit.0
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I don't drive. Am still on a gas boiler but usage is well below average and exterior insulation is planned with savings allocated. Parents' home is highly insulated with PV, solar thermal for hot water and a heat pump.focuszing723 said:
Which electric car do you have and how is your heat pump going?rjsterry said:
'Lead by example' is just an excuse and a comfort blanket for people who don't want to change.focuszing723 said:
Would you say a home to live in is a necessity? Like I said if they all stayed at home it would reduce the environmental impact and be an example.rjsterry said:
Return flight to NY is ≈ 1.7t CO2. UK total emissions per person per year is ≈ 5t. The Glasgow COP conference had 120 world leaders and about 40,000 attendees in total. Obviously a lot will have been more local, but let's say they all flew from NY: 68,000t emitted. Meanwhile back at home the UK is emitting ≈ 920,000t a day. So the flights for the entire conference arefocuszing723 said:
New York? Did you read it? Also, how many people live in a house? and your estimates are off for a a single person on a flight, christ!rjsterry said:
We literally answered this question yesterday. The carbon emissions from short haul return flight is ≈ 5% of the annual emissions for a typical house. Also Zoom is definitely inferior to a face to face meeting.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan is flying to New York for four days to attend a series of events including an international climate conference.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66820972
The mayor of London is expected to speak at the United Nations climate ambition summit on Wednesday.
He will also use the visit to meet representatives from US businesses and investors looking at London.
His trip takes place three weeks after the controversial expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez).
Can't they zoom call or similar to do this? It's a conference on "CLIMATE CHANGE" for fook sake.
Am I wrong on this? This sort of $h1t has to stop, it has to be for everyone. What's a persons personal pollution/environmental damage footprint?
United Nations climate ambition summit
Lol, want a make a difference, cancel it.
Again, lead by example!
Also, if you are taking your lead from Prince Harry you need to have a word with yourself.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
One good thing about the cheap competition from China regarding EVs is that Europes car manufacturers will have to push in that direction too, accelerating the adoption of them. It's the competition from China which has reduced the price of Tesla's on numerous occasions.skyblueamateur said:The ‘Green economy’ represents a real chance for this country to deliver the high skilled, high wage economy promised by Brexit.
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For sustainability to be sustainable it needs to be a positive way of live.surrey_commuter said:
Are you denying that everybody will need to pay a price?rick_chasey said:The sooner people stop demanding hairshirt behaviour for anyone who’s trying to do anything for climate change, the better.
We’re not gonna solve climate change by telling everyone they can’t do anything.
Ultimately sustainability and climate change is a political problem with a technology dimension. If people don’t collectively go along with whatever is needed, it’s not gonna happen,
The attitude of most people here which is “we did lots of nice things but if you care about the world you can’t” is not politically viable. You’re not going to get anyone on board doing that.
Demanding people live poorer lives than the previous generation is not going to be politically viable.
So the sustainable future needs to be an improvement.
So the arguments against fossil fuels shouldn’t just be “they’re killing the planet” but should also be things like “renewables allow for more or even unlimited power, and it improves energy security, we’re less geopolitically bound by limited and pollutant natural resources usually run by despots”
The arguments around planes should really be about improving the impact of travel, rather than calling plane travellers hypocrites.
Sure there are unnecessary plane journeys to stop. But you’re not gonna get everyone on board by telling them not to fly ever again.0 -
I think it is reasonable to criticise the environmental impact of a climate change conference.2
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Damn tootin.TheBigBean said:I think it is reasonable to criticise the environmental impact of a climate change conference.
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If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.0 -
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.
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And get that bloody heat pump fitted!
Live long and prosper.0 -
Lol I went by boat obviouslyfocuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.0 -
rick_chasey said:
Lol I went by boat obviouslyfocuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.
That's even worse with that big bloody diesel engine, chug, chug, chug...
STOP KILLING EARTH!0 -
It depends whether you think burning a load of carbon on talking is making things better. Greta argues regularly that the pretense of action is worse. I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.
Does it need an international conference to work out how the UK is going to upgrade its grid?0 -
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What are you doing about it FZ? Very quick to pass judgement on others and pick holes but I'm not sure being a Tesla fanboi counts.focuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
At least Thunberg sailed to the States.
I respect that.
Hmmmm, sail boats.
I tell what people who live on sailing yachts can pontificate on the environment, apart from the resin fibreglass boats they live a very minimalist eco friendly life.0 -
I presume this is sarcastic, but it is exactly what's required.rick_chasey said:Yeah that’ll work, focus, keep it up. Before you know it you’ll have persuaded the world.
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Well it does actually without Musk's greatness EVs wouldn't be a thing. He used first principles and proved their viability. Three years he slept on the fookin shop floor during the model three's production.rjsterry said:
What are you doing about it FZ? Very quick to pass judgement on others and pick holes but I'm not sure being a Tesla fanboi counts.focuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.0 -
No, what are *you* doing?focuszing723 said:
Well it does actually without Musk's greatness EVs wouldn't be a thing. He used first principles and proved their viability. Three years he slept on the fookin shop floor during the model three's production.rjsterry said:
What are you doing about it FZ? Very quick to pass judgement on others and pick holes but I'm not sure being a Tesla fanboi counts.focuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Thank Musk for evolving your ideology.rick_chasey said:Yeah that’ll work, focus, keep it up. Before you know it you’ll have persuaded the world.
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I hope Ricktopia has a monument dedecated to Musk's greatness.0 -
I think I am evidence enough on the forum that banging on about how someone is wrong persuades absolutely no one.TheBigBean said:
I presume this is sarcastic, but it is exactly what's required.rick_chasey said:Yeah that’ll work, focus, keep it up. Before you know it you’ll have persuaded the world.
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Nooooo, what are yoooou doing?rjsterry said:
No, what are *you* doing?focuszing723 said:
Well it does actually without Musk's greatness EVs wouldn't be a thing. He used first principles and proved their viability. Three years he slept on the fookin shop floor during the model three's production.rjsterry said:
What are you doing about it FZ? Very quick to pass judgement on others and pick holes but I'm not sure being a Tesla fanboi counts.focuszing723 said:
Sure, get back to us when you sell your petrol car and by an EV. Oh, and stop going to the Netherlands on a commercial jet.rick_chasey said:If there’s no opportunity in the net zero transition you can forget it now.
Your moralising and declaring “hypocrisy!” is not going to help the problem. In fact, it makes it worse.
It’s about making the future better to live in than it is now, not worse.0 -
Oh I misread that as you suggesting the country should focus. Now realise you were referring to the user.rick_chasey said:
I think I am evidence enough on the forum that banging on about how someone is wrong persuades absolutely no one.TheBigBean said:
I presume this is sarcastic, but it is exactly what's required.rick_chasey said:Yeah that’ll work, focus, keep it up. Before you know it you’ll have persuaded the world.
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