Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

Giro 2017: Stage 9 Montenero Di Bisaccia - Blockhaus *spoilers*

15791011

Posts

  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,835
    Yeah agree with Rick, massive drama, very entertaining, great ride by Dumoulin in particular. Mollema didn't crack as badly as I expected. Tejay is useless.

    I was cheering for Pinot (doing my e/w bet proud), and I was pretty happy to see Nibali get dropped... Can't really warm to Quintana or Movistar. Looking forward to seeing them get thumped in the TTs!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    Something about a selective mountain stage in a GT that just gets so grotesquely dramatic.

    Enormous quantities of suffering, fans unleashing primal screams in the faces of their favourites as the tension of the wait rises to a climax, big GC shake ups.

    Love it.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    And yes to whoever said the moto should have been on the right.

    Just bad luck - you need good luck to do well in GTs.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    dabber wrote:
    Rai now taking pot shots at Sky for not bringing Viviani to their 100th Giro.
    Classy.
    Imagine if the cop had ko'd Nibali's chances.

    Time for Sky to pull out those needed for Tour duty.

    They may as well pull out entirely

    Christ it's a bike race.

    No need to do a Paula.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    RichN95 wrote:


    Why do some people feel the need to always blame the riders?


    I don't feel the need to blame the riders but looking at the footage I've seen bunches avoid much more difficult hazards with less time to react.

    To me it looks like the riders at the front haven't given enough of a warning. The eyewitness has one perspective but clearly from the footage riders on the front had sufficient view of it to give a warning - the way the incident played out it looked like they hadn't.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    andyrac wrote:
    When are we going to see some kind of protocol/ procedure for 'non racing incidents'? I wouldn't blame Movistar, but the Race Director should be able to take action once he knows what happened.

    "These things happen" or "that's cycling" are just lazy excuses and are unacceptable in a supposed world class sporting event.

    It's [email protected] but it's part of the richness of it.

    Overly fair sport is no fun.

    The way cycling works means it's difficult to compensate for riders affected.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    RichN95 wrote:


    Why do some people feel the need to always blame the riders?


    I don't feel the need to blame the riders but looking at the footage I've seen bunches avoid much more difficult hazards with less time to react.

    To me it looks like the riders at the front haven't given enough of a warning. The eyewitness has one perspective but clearly from the footage riders on the front had sufficient view of it to give a warning - the way the incident played out it looked like they hadn't.
    The eyewitness - Chad Haga - was one of riders on the front. But I suppose you know better from a two second clip.

    The other hazards are stationary and have been there for a long time and usually have a marshall on them and a warning from race radio. With a motorbike it takes time to process that it is stationary.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    It's not a club run!
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,745
    It's a massive shame the crash robbed us of three of the big contenders but on the plus side, how often these days do we do multiple attacks with 6k to go?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,080 Lives Here
    inseine wrote:
    It's a massive shame the crash robbed us of three of the big contenders but on the plus side, how often these days do we do multiple attacks with 6k to go?

    Yup yup.
  • ridgeriderridgerider Posts: 2,809
    It was a marginal event...the first sunweb rider gets past the Moto, but the one behind is just a fraction left of him and catches it.

    I'm guessing the second sunweb rider was kelderman. He did seem to crash alot at rabo/belkin/jumbo...perhaps you make your own luck in situations like that. For example, was he the only rider to hit the Moto or did the line of riders immediately behind him also collide with it?
    Half man, Half bike...and now more familiar with the work of Prostate Cancer UK
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 15,708
    I can only think that some folks have been sipping too much of the Sunday syrup to be arguing the toss on this.
    Especially after all the moto fuss of last season.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    ridgerider wrote:
    It was a marginal event...the first sunweb rider gets past the Moto, but the one behind is just a fraction left of him and catches it.

    I'm guessing the second sunweb rider was kelderman. He did seem to crash alot at rabo/belkin/jumbo...perhaps you make your own luck in situations like that. For example, was he the only rider to hit the Moto or did the line of riders immediately behind him also collide with it?
    Esch rider that went past the motorbike did so with progressively little space to spare. If Kelderman had managed to avoid it, the next rider behind him would have hit. It was inevitable someone was going down.


    Another thought, with respect to Sky. I thought they were actually employing this tactic this Giro, but if you have two co-leaders it would be sensible for them to split up and ride apart so it's unlikely for both to be effected by an event like this. (Just as executives who know the Coca-Cola recipe supposedly aren't allowed to travel together - this may be an urban myth)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    RichN95 wrote:
    The eyewitness - Chad Haga - was one of riders on the front. But I suppose you know better from a two second clip.

    The other hazards are stationary and have been there for a long time and usually have a marshall on them and a warning from race radio. With a motorbike it takes time to process that it is stationary.


    Well it's more than 2 seconds if you look on youtube Rich - they cut from a bike shot to a helicopter shot but you get to see the corner he talks about. It's clear that they are 7-8 seconds round the corner by the time they tag the bike which is the point I was agreeing with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onUVKjz7krw
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    RichN95 wrote:
    The eyewitness - Chad Haga - was one of riders on the front. But I suppose you know better from a two second clip.

    The other hazards are stationary and have been there for a long time and usually have a marshall on them and a warning from race radio. With a motorbike it takes time to process that it is stationary.


    Well it's more than 2 seconds if you look on youtube Rich - they cut from a bike shot to a helicopter shot but you get to see the corner he talks about. It's clear that they are 7-8 seconds round the corner by the time they tag the bike which is the point I was agreeing with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ9DmATSTZ4
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    RichN95 wrote:
    The eyewitness - Chad Haga - was one of riders on the front. But I suppose you know better from a two second clip.

    The other hazards are stationary and have been there for a long time and usually have a marshall on them and a warning from race radio. With a motorbike it takes time to process that it is stationary.


    Well it's more than 2 seconds if you look on youtube Rich - they cut from a bike shot to a helicopter shot but you get to see the corner he talks about. It's clear that they are 7-8 seconds round the corner by the time they tag the bike which is the point I was agreeing with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ9DmATSTZ4
    So they have about seven seconds to spot the bike, work out that it's stationary, shout out coherent warning to a multilingual peloton and then try and compress the peloton already spread fully across the road.

    That's just unrealistic. But you seem to desperately want to find the cyclists at fault rather than a motorcyclist who parked on the road, so we'll have to disagree.

    (This reminds me of the Tom Hanks film Sully, where people trying to place the blame on Hanks fail to take into consideration the time it takes for the human mind to process unexpected events)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    RichN95 wrote:

    So they have about seven seconds to spot the bike, work out that it's stationary, shout out coherent warning to a multilingual peloton and then try and compress the peloton already spread fully across the road.

    That's just unrealistic. But you seem to desperately want to find the cyclists at fault rather than a motorcyclist who parked on the road, so we'll have to disagree.

    Yeah that could be it - they only had time to shout a warning in 4 or 5 languages and sods law the rider who hit the bike didn't speak any of those - if only they had developed a system of hand signals for things like this that they all understood...
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    RichN95 wrote:

    So they have about seven seconds to spot the bike, work out that it's stationary, shout out coherent warning to a multilingual peloton and then try and compress the peloton already spread fully across the road.

    That's just unrealistic. But you seem to desperately want to find the cyclists at fault rather than a motorcyclist who parked on the road, so we'll have to disagree.

    Yeah that could be it - they only had time to shout a warning in 4 or 5 languages and sods law the rider who hit the bike didn't speak any of those - if only they had developed a system of hand signals for things like this that they all understood...
    As Rick says - It's not a club run.

    Do you really think riders saw the motorbike in good time and thought "No point mentioning that"?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pinnopinno Posts: 39,173
    Probably been said before but Quintana can't rest on that time gap. It's far too small. Pinot could theoretically put in a better TT so Quintana will have to attack again. Will we see Pinot in pink?
    It's the Giro; it's starting to brood and simmer nicely.
    S - https://i.pinimg.com/564x/35/cd/f1/35cdf125f02216d233fc9aa90f8607e6.jpg
    W - (still at Atlantic boulevard). Neill broke his collarbone.

    "Why are the tractors beeping in the night? I dunno woss goin' on"
    Tricky, 9yo
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 23,947
    pinno wrote:
    Probably been said before but Quintana can't rest on that time gap. It's far too small. Pinot could theoretically put in a better TT so Quintana will have to attack again. Will we see Pinot in pink?
    It's the Giro; it's starting to brood and simmer nicely.
    Somewhat unconvincing from Quintana, I thought. Certainly not a performance to proclaim yourself the New Pantani (which he did).

    Dumoulin, Pinot and Mollema won't be scared by that.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pinnopinno Posts: 39,173
    It will be interesting to see how the leaner Dumoulin fairs over the next 2 weeks. He's got such heart, I like the guy but i'm not sure he has the engine yet.

    As an aside, after recent events (and including today), I was utterly gob smacked by the amount of traffic in the race - especially yesterday. You'd think that on yesterday's last twisty ascent, the traffic would have been redirected much earlier. I know the camera fore shortens the images but still, do they really need that many motorcycles in amongst the action? I think it's only a matter of time that another serious incident occurs.
    S - https://i.pinimg.com/564x/35/cd/f1/35cdf125f02216d233fc9aa90f8607e6.jpg
    W - (still at Atlantic boulevard). Neill broke his collarbone.

    "Why are the tractors beeping in the night? I dunno woss goin' on"
    Tricky, 9yo
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 20,372
    I can't understand how anyone is defending the motorbike but....

    For the sake of respectability now cycling has to sort out this ridiculous problem with race support vehicles making themselves integral arts of the race - it's once a GT now? Otherwise screw it let's just have random swinging logs across the road and get Richard Hammond to present it
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • thegibdogthegibdog Posts: 2,106
    RichN95 wrote:
    The other hazards are stationary and have been there for a long time and usually have a marshall on them and a warning from race radio. With a motorbike it takes time to process that it is stationary.
    I think that this is the key point. As a rider you look up and see a police moto rider, you're not going to process that as a hazard because it's what you expect to see. Clearly the front of the peloton didn't realise it was a hazard until too late.

    It's a shame for the race that 3 decent GC hopefuls got taken out like this. It would have been interesting to see Blockhaus play out if it hadn't happened. It was actually a great finale anyway, it was just hard to appreciate it after that incident.

    There is no way I'd have expected Movistar to wait, particularly after what happened in 2014.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,892
    Quintana needs this multiple times to keep the Dutchman at bay.

    Yep, that was my reaction yesterday. Quintana clearly the strongest climber in the race but you would think he needs to take at least 30 seconds out of Dumoulin every summit finish.

    I like Quintana but got an e/w bet on Dumoulin so win-win either way :P
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,892
    Just out of interest, to be a moto driver in a World Tour race do you have to be licensed by the UCI? Or is it the organisers themselves who set the criteria?

    Or is it a case of "my mate Dave knows someone who can ride a motorbike"
  • thegibdogthegibdog Posts: 2,106
    Quality reporting from the BBC, including this gem: 'Team Orica-Scott rider Yates, from Yorkshire'.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,835
    thegibdog wrote:
    Quality reporting from the BBC, including this gem: 'Team Orica-Scott rider Yates, from Yorkshire'.
    Haha ouch...
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,835
    RichN95 wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    Probably been said before but Quintana can't rest on that time gap. It's far too small. Pinot could theoretically put in a better TT so Quintana will have to attack again. Will we see Pinot in pink?
    It's the Giro; it's starting to brood and simmer nicely.
    Somewhat unconvincing from Quintana, I thought. Certainly not a performance to proclaim yourself the New Pantani (which he did).

    Dumoulin, Pinot and Mollema won't be scared by that.
    How much time are we expecting Dumoulin to take out of Quintana tomorrow?

    Certainly don't expect Quintana to keep the jersey.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,023
    ddraver wrote:
    I can't understand how anyone is defending the motorbike but....

    For the sake of respectability now cycling has to sort out this ridiculous problem with race support vehicles making themselves integral arts of the race - it's once a GT now? Otherwise screw it let's just have random swinging logs across the road and get Richard Hammond to present it

    To be fair I don't think anyone is defending the motorbike - he stopped in a poor position and created a hazard I haven't seen anyone argue differently.

    By the standards of the pro peloton though it was avoidable - but yes a rider looking down for a few seconds, fatigue meaning a couple didn't clock it was stationary til too late or whatever and we can have this result - I don't see that as being desperate to blame the riders just accepting that sometimes humans will not be 100% attentive at all times and if you place unnecessary hazards in their way often enough sooner or later one will catch them out.

    I agree the answer is to reduce the amount of race traffic and you should reduce the frequency of these incidents.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • FocusZingFocusZing Posts: 4,416
    Personally I feel there should be a designated ice cream van for each stage. In the event of a nasty crash at least the unfortunate can tuck into a nice tasty Cornetto. It would just take the edge off and divert thier minds from the pain and the general WTFness.
Sign In or Register to comment.